Judge dismisses Wyoming KKG lawsuit

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by carnation

Women should get a boner-free sorority house, which they were not getting with Artemis around.

And does anyone feel like sisters who complained were totally ignored? "Oh, don't be silly, that's not even anything that should go to the honor court--you transphobic bitches."

Lol!!!!

[AGDee]

Most college women I've worked with were mad that they couldn't have men upstairs and lived in co-ed dorms before they had an opportunity to live in a sorority house. Most are forced to live in for a year because nobody wants to live somewhere that they can't have alcohol or men in their own private space. I don't think most of them are looking for a 'boner-free' house.

[33girl]

The crux of the whole Artemis issue is that according to the women who sued, 1) her GPA did not meet the requirement that all other pledges had to meet to receive a bid 2) she was voted on in a way different from all other rushees that did not permit the members to vote anonymously.

If either of these things aren't true, or even partially true (if say there were other pledges with similarly bad GPAs who got bids) KKG needs to stop hiding behind "membership selection is private" and say that the women who sued are full of shit.

ANY person who came into a Greek org under such circumstances would engender resentment among at least some members, no matter who they were. Also remember...this is a 40ish member chapter. This isn't a "well the only people who know how things really worked out are the rush chairs" SEC type school.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Most college women I've worked with were mad that they couldn't have men upstairs and lived in co-ed dorms before they had an opportunity to live in a sorority house. Most are forced to live in for a year because nobody wants to live somewhere that they can't have alcohol or men in their own private space. I don't think most of them are looking for a 'boner-free' house.

No doubt they didn't want his boner, only certain boners.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by carnation

No doubt they didn't want his boner, only certain boners.

Yes, and what they never understood was that if they were allowed to have their boyfriend, then their sisters could also bring home any random guy they happened to pick up that night.

I agree with 33Girl that the real issues are about whether membership selection procedures were followed. But again, that's not for the government to decide. It's an internal problem.

[carnation]

One of our roommates in Hawaii was a shy, quiet nurse by day. At night, she trolled for sailors down near Pearl Harbor and she would bring them back to her bedroom. The next morning, there was often some sleazy-looking sailor eating breakfast alone in our living room.

We all got good locks for our doors.

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Most college women I've worked with were mad that they couldn't have men upstairs and lived in co-ed dorms before they had an opportunity to live in a sorority house. Most are forced to live in for a year because nobody wants to live somewhere that they can't have alcohol or men in their own private space. I don't think most of them are looking for a 'boner-free' house.

Originally Posted by carnation

No doubt they didn't want his boner, only certain boners.

I hollered!

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The crux of the whole Artemis issue is that according to the women who sued, 1) her GPA did not meet the requirement that all other pledges had to meet to receive a bid 2) she was voted on in a way different from all other rushees that did not permit the members to vote anonymously.

If either of these things aren't true, or even partially true (if say there were other pledges with similarly bad GPAs who got bids) KKG needs to stop hiding behind "membership selection is private" and say that the women who sued are full of shit.

ANY person who came into a Greek org under such circumstances would engender resentment among at least some members, no matter who they were. Also remember...this is a 40ish member chapter. This isn't a "well the only people who know how things really worked out are the rush chairs" SEC type school.

THIS!!

Originally Posted by carnation

No doubt they didn't want his boner, only certain boners.

I am blaming you for the wine that just went up my nose, carnation!

[Pinkmagnolia921]

Has everyone seen Kappa's guide for supporting LGBT+ members? There are a few mind boggling things in it, IMHO.

Requiring chapters to provide a single room for Transgender members with no additional expense to the member. The chapter's HCB would be required to pay the empty bed fee.

Allowing gay sisters, in a relationship, to live in a room in the house together, with the only worry being what if the relationship didn't work out and what would happen then? I'm sorry, but in my org no one is supposed to be having sex in the house, straight or gay. How is this fair to sisters who have boyfriends that aren't allowed to have sex with their boyfriends in the house?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kapp...embers2021.pdf

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by carnation

Women should get a boner-free sorority house, which they were not getting with Artemis around.

And does anyone feel like sisters who complained were totally ignored? "Oh, don't be silly, that's not even anything that should go to the honor court--you transphobic bitches."

First line: Every time I think I’ve found f my favorite Carnation post, you manage to come through with a new favorite!

Second line: YES! We reach women to speak up, say something when you’re uncomfortable, etc and they did. But it’s like women just automatically CANNOT express discomfort if the person is transgender- and that’s not fair.

I’ve worked in social services settings for years and one of the things that is always preached is that all the people participating have the same rights- to be comfortable, feel safe, feel heard, etc. no one participant is more important than another. I think it is applicable to many group experiences and especially group living experiences.

Just because women in college (some, not all) want to date men and have access to those men (of their choosing) sometimes in their bedrooms does not mean they should have to be comfortable with this situation. That’s like saying that if a woman is heterosexual, she should be okay with weird, gross people catcalling her because she likes men anyway so what’s the problem?

[FSUZeta]

Spot on Winter.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by *winter*

Second line: YES! We reach women to speak up, say something when you’re uncomfortable, etc and they did. But it’s like women just automatically CANNOT express discomfort if the person is transgender- and that’s not fair

Exactly! Is there a woman alive who doesn't know what it feels like to always be on guard because of past experiences? My grandmother and my mother have both talked about how in their youth, men they knew and men they didn't would make random grabs, make unwelcome sexual comments, and so forth.

It's no different now except we get the message that we're supposed to shut up if a man transitions. We have the right to speak up without being shamed or ignored!

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by Zach

I read an article about Artemis when it was first put out there, and I don’t understand how she can question who she is. She got a hard on off of women in her sorority house or wherever they were living. There’s your answer Artemis. Your hard dick just told you who you are. I’ll bet if one of those girls wanted Artemis to hit it, I’ll bet she wouldn’t pass it up by saying “I don’t know. I don’t know who I am yet.”

I think she’s Bi, personally.

[honeychile]

I think *winter* and carnation get the Common Sense Award, with Zack winning the male division.

In reality, it's hard to believe that this is even under discussion. Only up to 1.7 percent of the population are intersex, but they need to be in a sorority, AND live in the house?

[TweedleDee199]

Hi. I'm going to chime in with the millenial perspective no one asked for. I know there are plenty of women who have devoted decades of service to their sororities and view acceptance of trans members as a seismic and incomprehensible change. I happened to grow up in a place where acceptance of trans people has been common place for a long time - but I have family members whose experiences and opinions are VERY different from mine. Something I've heard from them a lot is frustration that it feels like they can't have any conversation relating to inclusion of trans people because it just ends with them being yelled at rather than heard. That's completely justified- people should be able to have conversations without feeling talked down to or yelled at. On the other hand, I think a reason a lot of people my age and younger end up frustrated is that they feel like folks who are skeptical of including trans people in certain groups - sports teams, GLOs, etc. - often speak about trans people in an invasive way you just wouldn't speak about a non-trans person. I personally can't say I've ever seen another GC thread that spoke so candidly about a collegiate member's sex organs or speculated on their sexual orientation. I fully believe it's possible to have a civil conversation about how trans or non-binary members fit into GLOs but I would hope it could be done in a way that is respectful of particular individuals.