Phi Retro Recruitment

[xowest]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I think the GPA scenario is extremely likely in this case. This thread was so poorly written that it was almost incomprehensible. Sorry to be mean, but I can't believe this poster even was in college.

I have to agree with the posters who have commented that the above comment was too harsh. I believe that these types of posts have the potential to make new visitors to greek chat reluctant to post for fear of being ripped apart. Maybe you don't care. Personally, I would hate for that to happen as I really enjoy reading comments from the non-regular posters who might have a different or new perspective. For instance, I really enjoyed this thread as I am from Oregon and have many friends and relatives who attended Oregon State. I have rarely seen any posts related to the Oregon schools.

As an aside, it appears that the woman who started this thread ended up attending preference night at Kappa Alpha Theta. Unless things have changed a lot since I was in college, that is probably the most competitive chapter to get into at Oregon State. As such, I doubt that this woman had a GPA problem- Theta would have dropped her before preference night.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

My point is that you care much more deeply about the person related to you than you do the chapter already, which is why if I had a legacy I would want her to do what she wanted to do. It'd be fun if she joined my group, but not at the expense of her doing what she wanted to do.

Not everyone feels that same way. I got more than a couple of phone calls (and I was simply the Alumnae Chapter President, I had nothing to do with recruitment at either of our local chapters) from women who were upset that a person they wrote a rec for (I think at least one was not even a legacy) didn't get into Gamma Phi.

And I know plenty of stories of alumnae who cut off contact.

It's not the business of the chapter to tell the family of a PNM that she was cut. What if the PNM is GLAD she was cut?

[alphagamphi]

I ranked Theta 2 after preferences. Who knows what would of happened if I had ranked them 1 above Alpha Gamma Delta. They were the top chapter when I was there but I left in 2001, so it might not be anymore.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Yeah, I can see why trolls and sockpuppets would get different treatment, but I would have personally erred on the side of her being a real poster.

I guess that's one of the contributing elements in how new posters are treated. People don't accept the sincerity of the posts.

I was considering the totality of the circumstances. I do not abuse new posters. I don't assume everyone new is a troll. However, the details of the story compounded by the lack of writing skills led me to believe that it was a strong possibility that this story was not real.

And, as far as GPA is concerned, if a person writes like that and has a good GPA, the educational system has failed her completely. I know that not every field of study requires a lot of communication skills, but every college, no high school, graduate in this country should be able to communicate effectively.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB

It's not the business of the chapter to tell the family of a PNM that she was cut.

I understand and agree with this generally, but most groups do have legacy policies of one kind or another which indicates that certain relatives of members receive a special level of consideration of some kind.

It's about the relationship or the organization with the member rather than the PNM, in my opinion. The organizations usually promote legacy introduction forms, don't they? They expect members to provide the chapter with information, so why wouldn't it also seem reasonable to expect that the information would flow both ways?

Again, it seems to me that notification isn't about the PNM really; it's all about the person who is already a member who has taken the time to make you aware of a legacy going through recruitment.

I can see that Gamma Phi Beta's policy would have several benefits to the chapter in the short term, and as I said, the phone call may not do any good in terms of long term relationships anyway. I think it's a perfectly justifiable policy to have, not that my opinion about it would matter anyway. I'm just trying to explain why I don't think the "it's no one else's business" is completely ironclad.

I don't understand what the "what if the member wants to get cut" question is about. Sooner or later in the process, the PNM is going to get to decide if she is interested in the group, even if it's just on the bid card. Can you explain what you mean more elaborately because I know I'm missing something here.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I was considering the totality of the circumstances. I do not abuse new posters. I don't assume everyone new is a troll. However, the details of the story compounded by the lack of writing skills led me to believe that it was a strong possibility that this story was not real.

And, as far as GPA is concerned, if a person writes like that and has a good GPA, the educational system has failed her completely. I know that not every field of study requires a lot of communication skills, but every college, no high school, graduate in this country should be able to communicate effectively.

Exactly.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by xowest

I have to agree with the posters who have commented that the above comment was too harsh. I believe that these types of posts have the potential to make new visitors to greek chat reluctant to post for fear of being ripped apart. Maybe you don't care. Personally, I would hate for that to happen as I really enjoy reading comments from the non-regular posters who might have a different or new perspective.

Actually, I do care and would not want new posters to be driven away. In my experience, new posters are routinely attacked for silly things like simple ignorance of the way things are done on GC. God forbid not using the search function (which never works for me anyway) or something like that... I don't paint this with the same stroke - maybe you do. And, for the record, I am never one of the posters who treats new folks like that, and my post here had nothing to do with her being new to GC.

Originally Posted by xowest

As an aside, it appears that the woman who started this thread ended up attending preference night at Kappa Alpha Theta. Unless things have changed a lot since I was in college, that is probably the most competitive chapter to get into at Oregon State. As such, I doubt that this woman had a GPA problem- Theta would have dropped her before preference night.

As I posted before, how can someone who cannot convey a thought effectively NOT have a GPA problem? I am not talking about a simple spelling error here and there. The entire story was riddled with grammatical and spelling errors as well as misstatements of the events of her recruitment. Claiming to pref a competitive chapter only strengthens my case that this story did not make sense.

For those who are angry with me, just think of it as me being too stupid to decipher the posts. (And God help any of you who ever criticize Earp.)

[alphagamphi]

I preffered more then 1 top chapter. What you would of liked a sentence about it. Sorry if you feel I am not as good as you are. It should not matter so much about my GPA; it should be a well rounded person even though I might of made mistakes. It makes me personally feel like I should not post because I am just going to be made fun of by people like Irishpipes. It is rude to imply that someone is dumb. Maybe I did not communicate as effecitly as you would of in written but I can do it. You just think Im dumb - I am not going to justify that I am not to you anymore. It hurts to be told that I am lying. I was afarid to post because of this and being made fun of people whom do not even know me at all. Do you guys have anything better to do then make fun of people for the way they type - by the way there are other ways to communicate and I have always been a better verbal communication then written.

I am a decent human being who has got many accomplishments and was able to compete for OSU for many years and enjoyed doing that. I was able to manage my time very effectivly and get good grades.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

And, as far as GPA is concerned, if a person writes like that and has a good GPA, the educational system has failed her completely. I know that not every field of study requires a lot of communication skills, but every college, no high school, graduate in this country should be able to communicate effectively.

I agree with you completely about the value of effective communication, but I think we all know people who use a much lower standard when writing for an internet message board than they would in academic or professional writing

In most cases, I handle that by just not reading what they've posted. I don't feel an obligation to correct them or address the weaknesses of their writing. If you (not you personally, Irishpipes) aren't telling a good story that I can follow or don't care enough about spelling, grammar, and mechanics to be legible, I don't care enough to read you. If I make some exception and choose to spend my time reading you, I don't fault you for my lack of enjoyment. I did it to myself.

Especially, if the OP has a writing learning disability, I suspect she has other people proofread and correct her work IRL but that she probably wouldn't do it for GreekChat.

We could offer her constructive criticism if we feel like she wants it and would be receptive, but the chances of that go way down if we insult her first.

Again, I apologize for being crabby.

ETA: It's partially because you're not one of the usual new poster abusers that made your comment noteworthy, Irishpipes. I probably would have commented about it no matter who said it, but it somehow seemed harsher coming from you which may be unfair on my part.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I understand and agree with this generally, but most groups do have legacy policies of one kind or another which indicates that certain relatives of members receive a special level of consideration of some kind.

It's about the relationship or the organization with the member rather than the PNM, in my opinion. The organizations usually promote legacy introduction forms, don't they? They expect members to provide the chapter with information, so why wouldn't it also seem reasonable to expect that the information would flow both ways?

Again, it seems to me that notification isn't about the PNM really; it's all about the person who is already a member who has taken the time to make you aware of a legacy going through recruitment.

I can see that Gamma Phi Beta's policy would have several benefits to the chapter in the short term, and as I said, the phone call may not do any good in terms of long term relationships anyway. I think it's a perfectly justifiable policy to have, not that my opinion about it would matter anyway. I'm just trying to explain why I don't think the "it's no one else's business" is completely ironclad.

I don't understand what the "what if the member wants to get cut" question is about. Sooner or later in the process, the PNM is going to get to decide if she is interested in the group, even if it's just on the bid card. Can you explain what you mean more elaborately because I know I'm missing something here.

You're missing more than something. She may not WANT the person to know. There are such things as PNM's who continue through rush at houses they don't really like simply because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings by dropping the group. In which case, they are relieved when they are cut.

And you are correct. Your opinion about MY sorority's policy is irrelevant. It's a policy they have had for years and it isn't likely to change. I've never even heard it discussed before so it obviously works for us.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by alphagamphi

I preffered more then 1 top chapter. What you would of liked a sentence about it. Sorry if you feel I am not as good as you are. It should not matter so much about my GPA; it should be a well rounded person even though I might of made mistakes. It makes me personally feel like I should not post because I am just going to be made fun of by people like Irishpipes. It is rude to imply that someone is dumb. Maybe I did not communicate as effecitly as you would of in written but I can do it. You just think Im dumb - I am not going to justify that I am not to you anymore. It hurts to be told that I am lying. I was afarid to post because of this and being made fun of people whom do not even know me at all. Do you guys have anything better to do then make fun of people for the way they type - by the way there are other ways to communicate and I have always been a better verbal communication then written.

I am a decent human being who has got many accomplishments and was able to compete for OSU for many years and enjoyed doing that. I was able to manage my time very effectivly and get good grades.

It's rude to imply people are "fat" too but that didn't stop you from using that term to describe MY sisters (and yes, I knew who you were talking about as soon as I read it).

[alphagamphi]

AlphaGamUGa I did have a lot of help writing papers in college amoung other things for having dyslexia. It was a challenge for me but I am thankful that I was able to get it.

[alphagamphi]

Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB

It's rude to imply people are "fat" too but that didn't stop you from using that term to describe MY sisters (and yes, I knew who you were talking about as soon as I read it).

Im sorry that is the only thing I wrote about them in my rush book. On another note the chapter left the middle of my freshman year and lost their house. Im sorry about that. My little sister was a Gamma Phi Beta and I know that they have a great sisterhood.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB

You're missing more than something. She may not WANT the person to know. There are such things as PNM's who continue through rush at houses they don't really like simply because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings by dropping the group. In which case, they are relieved when they are cut.

And you are correct. Your opinion about MY sorority's policy is irrelevant. It's a policy they have had for years and it isn't likely to change. I've never even heard it discussed before so it obviously works for us.

Did you intend this to come of the way it does in terms of tone or am I reading something into it that isn't there?

I didn't appeal for your group's policy to be changed. I was originally asking to be enlightened about the policy itself because it seems different from that of mine and apparently other groups. I was curious if it was a more recent development and wondered what had contributed to the change if it was even, in fact, a change.

Gamma Phi Beta may have learned that the calls do more harm than good to alumnae relationships as well as compromising the PNMs privacy, and it might be a policy that other groups should consider.

Based on your never having heard it discussed before, it doesn't appear that you are able to provide that information.

Again, I don't see why the PNM's potential feelings about being cut change the group's relationship to the member who makes her a legacy.

Why would you all defer more to a young woman who wasn't a member of your group than you would want to communicate with the alumnae members you already had?

I'm not talking about keeping all the legacies here; I'm just talking about not understanding how a PNM's feeling about the group would matter in terms of notification of the member about dropping her. It would seem to me that it would matter less to the member if the PNM weren't really interested in the chapter than the chapter dropped her, but it doesn't really explain why it benefits the GLO not to notify.

We can pretend that all GLOs consider during recruitment is the benefit to the PNM if you want, but I'm not sure that's what happens in most cases.

[ForeverRoses]

I actually like Gamma Phi's policy of the chapter not calling. Honestly, when a chapter does call, do they really tell the "whole truth" or do they just say things to try and make the chapter sound good?
I can't imagine a legacy being cut for not being up to chapter "standards" (whatever those might be) and then the alumna actually being told the whole truth. I know from personal experience that the alumna is usually told something about the legacy being a "better fit somewhere else" or that "they didn't seem interested in us" or "they seemed to really love a different house". Bascially, the reason is sugar-coated. So why even call? Let the PNM call and if the alumna wants more answers, they can contact the chapter directly.