Sweethearts wearing letters?

[RutgersPIKE]

I understand that is like hazing, but I also know that I wasnt hazed at all during pledging and that I still feel like I had to finish my pledging before I could wear the letters, I just feel that the letters represent something more and that I really wouldnt appreciate it if anyone who is not a brother is walking around with the Pi Kappa Alpha on them because they really dont know what it represents, I understand some sweethearts might have done some work and even know a little bit about it, but the letters represent the bond I share with my brothers and I feel that brothers should be the only ones wearing my letters, I wouldnt even let my mother wear my pike hoodie when she asked me and was cold, call me cruel or whatever, but this is just something I strongly believe

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by RutgersPIKE

I understand that is like hazing, but I also know that I wasnt hazed at all during pledging and that I still feel like I had to finish my pledging before I could wear the letters, I just feel that the letters represent something more and that I really wouldnt appreciate it if anyone who is not a brother is walking around with the Pi Kappa Alpha on them because they really dont know what it represents, I understand some sweethearts might have done some work and even know a little bit about it, but the letters represent the bond I share with my brothers and I feel that brothers should be the only ones wearing my letters, I wouldnt even let my mother wear my pike hoodie when she asked me and was cold, call me cruel or whatever, but this is just something I strongly believe

Me personally, I think it's ok for mom to wear it. But it isn't a crime to feel strongly about your letters.

As far as I understand it, guys choose sweethearts...not just one of them. It seems to me that if the majority of the chapter thinks it's ok...then good deal.

I feel the same about lavalieres...it is a little different when it isn't run by the whole chapter. But if a brother laveliered a girl and he was approached by a group of brothers who were concerened about it...it seems like it would be reasonable to expect him to explain the situation to her and offer a nice shiny bauble instead.

It just has a lot to do with campus culture.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

RutgersPIKE - many GLOs allow pledges to wear letters. The idea of "earning" your letters is now seen as an invitation to haze. Wearing letters indicates you are a member (even if a pledge) of that GLO.

My observations may be limited, but it has been my obervation that this is one of those men-and-women-are-different things. My observation has been that many if not most men's GLOs (but certainly not all) do not consider pledges, or whatever other term is used, to be "members," at least not full members.

One of the ways that this is expressed is by reserving the right to wear letters until after initiation. As has been pointed out many times before here at GC, many if not most men's GLOs have a second vote prior to initiation -- meaning that a "pledge' must not only be voted on to get a bid but that he must be voted on a second time at the end of the pledge period for initiation. This is part of the practice underlying the idea of "earning" one's letters.

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

It just has a lot to do with campus culture.

It also has to do with the culture or rules of the specific GLO.

Our National Constitution was amended at our last National Assembly to address this very issue. Our Constitution now specifically states that only brothers in good standing are permitted to wear or display our letters or our coat-of-arms. It also states that probationary members (pledges) "may not wear or otherwise display these symbols at any time prior to initiation," and that brothers "may not authorize or encourage" anyone who is not an initiated brother to wear or display our letters or coat-of-arms. (Which means that chapters are having to come up with lavelier-alternatives for sweethearts and fiancees. Perhaps a national alternative will be provided.)

ETA: It has been a regulation for years that probationary members could not wear the letters. (Like TSteven describes with Sigma Chi, they can wear clothing with the words "Phi Mu Alpha.") The recent constitutional amendment was simply a strengthening of the rule in that regard.

Men and Women are different. Vive la difference.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by RutgersPIKE

I don't think anyone but initiated members should wear the letters period. I mean if pledges arent allowed to wear the letters, and they must earn that honor, then why should people who dont do anything pledge wise be able to wear the letters. The letters represent a bond between the brothers and have some meaning behind them, if random people just wear these letters without knowing the meaning behind them then i think its just wrong. Only initiated members should wear the letters

First of all, not allowing pledges to wear letters is hazing. It's also hazing to call them pledges instead of New Members. [That topic, however, is debatable, and let's not go there.]

Secondly, just because we don't know what IIKA stands for doesn't mean that a sweetheart who has worked for your chapter doesn't appreciate what you do and who you are, and wants to strive for your fraternity to succeed in the highest degree. And you know what? That means something.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

First of all, not allowing pledges to wear letters is hazing. It's also hazing to call them pledges instead of New Members. [That topic, however, is debatable, and let's not go there.]

Secondly, just because we don't know what IIKA stands for doesn't mean that a sweetheart who has worked for your chapter doesn't appreciate what you do and who you are, and wants to strive for your fraternity to succeed in the highest degree. And you know what? That means something.

Not allowing pledges to wear letters or calling pledges "pledges" is not hazing. For example, if a man chooses to accept a bid from Sigma Chi Fraternity, from that point on he is considered a Sigma Chi pledge and may wear shirts, etc., with the words "Sigma Chi" or "Sigs" but not the Greek letters Sigma Chi. This is a national regulation. I believe that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi have something similar in place regarding "new members" wearing letters. As for pledges being called pledges, I'm fairly sure other NIC/IFC fraternities do this as well. However, I am not sure about any NPC organization doing so.

Also, many organizations have strict or specific rules (policy) about non members wearing their letters. With guidelines as to how and why.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Not allowing pledges to wear letters or calling pledges "pledges" is not hazing. For example, if a man chooses to accept a bid from Sigma Chi Fraternity, from that point on he is considered a Sigma Chi pledge and may wear shirts, etc., with the words "Sigma Chi" or "Sigs" but not the Greek letters Sigma Chi. This is a national regulation. I believe that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi have something similar in place regarding "new members" wearing letters. As for pledges being called pledges, I'm fairly sure other NIC/IFC fraternities do this as well. However, I am not sure about any NPC organization doing so.

Also, many organizations have strict or specific rules (policy) about non members wearing their letters. With guidelines as to how and why.

The reason we are running into a brick wall with reference to what hazing is, is because NPC has a very distinct definition of what it is. According to NPC, hazing IS not allowing women to wear letters, and calling them pledges instead of new members. Although fraternities and sororities share many likelesses, therein lies the difference between NIC/IFC and NPC organizations.

[fantASTic]

Actually, in my state, calling a new member a pledge is against the law because it's hazing. Nationals also condemns it. It is reminiscent of the days in which a new member was required to participate in unfortunate events in order to initiate, aka hazing.

At least in AST, not allowing a new member to wear letters IS hazing, because it's telling them that they can't do certain things unless they're initiated. It's the same thing as requiring them to wear certain clothing all the time, which IS hazing.

Whether a certain org's nationals have strict rules about non members wearing letters is one thing. However, if Nationals does NOT say that it is verboten, then it is left up to the individual chapter, and it shoudln't matter to us.

[kathykd2005]

Hazing is defined as any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or creates risk of injury, or causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule or which willfully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership in a chapter or colony of an NPC member fraternity. All member groups will affirm their policies denouncing hazing and inform their membership of this NPC position denouncing hazing through mailings and through their inter/national magazines.

http://www.npcwomen.org/policies/p_resolutions.php

Kind of cryptic, but it covers all of the bases, I guess.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Actually, in my state, calling a new member a pledge is against the law because it's hazing.

I'm sorry, but I simply can't believe that. Aside from the fact that the First Amendment would trump any law that prohibited the use of a word, which is what you're talking about, there are too many fraternities that still officially use the word pledge. I have seen lots of legal definitions of hazing, and I have never seen a legal definition, as opposed to, say, the NPC's definition, that would cover calling a "new member" a pledge. (And I think it's debatable that the NPC definition covers it as written, but I will certainly defer to the NPC's interpretation of its own policy.)

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Actually, in my state, calling a new member a pledge is against the law because it's hazing. Nationals also condemns it. It is reminiscent of the days in which a new member was required to participate in unfortunate events in order to initiate, aka hazing.

Which state?

At least in AST, not allowing a new member to wear letters IS hazing, because it's telling them that they can't do certain things unless they're initiated. It's the same thing as requiring them to wear certain clothing all the time, which IS hazing.

That may be an Alpha Sigma Tau rule, but it isn't for all organizations. Again, my understanding is that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi do not allow their "new members" to wear their letters prior to initiation.

Whether a certain org's nationals have strict rules about non members wearing letters is one thing. However, if Nationals does NOT say that it is verboten, then it is left up to the individual chapter, and it shouldn't matter to us.

There is specific language in Sigma Chi Fraternity's Constitution or the By-laws that states who may wear letters etc.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Not allowing pledges to wear letters or calling pledges "pledges" is not hazing. For example, if a man chooses to accept a bid from Sigma Chi Fraternity, from that point on he is considered a Sigma Chi pledge and may wear shirts, etc., with the words "Sigma Chi" or "Sigs" but not the Greek letters Sigma Chi. This is a national regulation. I believe that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi have something similar in place regarding "new members" wearing letters. As for pledges being called pledges, I'm fairly sure other NIC/IFC fraternities do this as well. However, I am not sure about any NPC organization doing so.

Also, many organizations have strict or specific rules (policy) about non members wearing their letters. With guidelines as to how and why.

Is that really in your Fraternal law or just in your tradition? I recently found out that Sigma Nu has no such rule against pledges wearing letters....we just don't let them do in 99% of our chapters because it's messed up.

[Tom Earp]

I do not really see what the Heck the big deal is.

Sweet Heart of XYZ is showing they are ladies who feel XYZ and the members are special. They are not pronouncing them selves as members are they?

Same things go for Moms or Dads. LOL!

PNM wearing letters show who they are affiliated with, wearing the Coat of Arms is a no, no.

This is a form of Advertising for that GLO!

Goodness, the popcycle unstuck from an oraface!

If Your GLO has rules then do not do it. If it is not spelled out ask!

The problem today is not enough GLOs are proud enough to let others know their affiliation by wearing letters, C of A, or Pins! Is that saying you are not PROUD of Your GLO?

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

Is that really in your Fraternal law or just in your tradition?

Both.

[angelnside]

I know at my campus (undergrad) the sweethearts of fraternities received no respect from anyone on the campus. I know one organization did give their new cross over ladies over-sized shirt. It appear they took there own shirt and iron-on some letters for them. To be honest with you, in this century you can get embriodary done just about anywhere. At the end of the day, they are not greek and apart of the D9 and still gets NO RESPECT

[faireststar]

Originally Posted by angelnside

I know at my campus (undergrad) the sweethearts of fraternities received no respect from anyone on the campus. I know one organization did give their new cross over ladies over-sized shirt. It appear they took there own shirt and iron-on some letters for them. To be honest with you, in this century you can get embriodary done just about anywhere. At the end of the day, they are not greek and apart of the D9 and still gets NO RESPECT

why are you yelling??? and I'm curious to what college you attended that you have such poor usage and spelling skills. Sheesh.