Looters in New Orleans

[Marie]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Ok woah you read WAY too far into my post. Yes I said a few things out of frustration and anger.

The animals I spoke of are the people who were looting in the beginning, the ANIMALS who were raping and attacking people. THOSE are the people who I wouldn't mind if they started killing themselves off.

I would NEVER EVER EVER say anything liek that about people with mental disabilities because I have a few good friends and family members dealing with those disease. I am really offended that you would assume that, especially since my original post said NOTHING even close to that.

And actually you're NOT 110% disagreeing with me because I never said that it was fair that the victims have to unfortunately go through all the hardships coming ahead. So thank you for assuming once again. I just don't think it's fair that these cities have to deal with the extra crime. And notice that I used the words hoodlum and well-deserving. Now which people do you think I care more about?

And just an FYI.... I have no sympathy for drug addicts. They know what they are getting their selves into when they start and unfortunately some of these people are uneducated and don't know the dangers of drugs. But I really have no sympathy for those who make drug use an everyday part of their life. 3 of my exes were coke users, and I had absolutely no sympathy for the BS they had to go through while getting high.

This isn't a matter of assumptions; this is a matter of common sense. My point was that there is no way or time to sort through and distinguish the 'hoodlums' from those who are acting like hoodlums for one reason or another. The examples that I listed above are of people who w/o knowing their back-story may appear to be common criminals. If we followed the thinking from your earlier post, then we would be sacrificing the safety, health, and lives of all of those people too b/c it is simply impossible to review everyone's crime on a case by case basis. Certainly you might be able to pin point a rapist, but can you distinguish btwn a paranoid schizophrenic who flips out and strangles a crying baby from a completely sane man who murders a baby to get back at its father/mother? On the surface, these might look nearly the same though I doubt that the same punishment would be applicable. That is the issue that I took w/your solution.

Additionally, I made no assumptions about you thinking that the situation that the victims are in is fair. I responded to your comment that it isn't fair for the people in the Texas towns to have to suffer due to the inflow of criminal victims as well. My point is, no it isn't fair to them, but so what? None of this week has been fair, but we all have to adjust and do the best we can to improve the situation. As I stated, it is nearly impossible to weed each criminal out, so each city that is offering support will have to find ways to cope and maintain order whether it is fair or not.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Marie
This isn't a matter of assumptions; this is a matter of common sense. My point was that there is no way or time to sort through and distinguish the 'hoodlums' from those who are acting like hoodlums for one reason or another. The examples that I listed above are of people who w/o knowing their back-story may appear to be common criminals. If we followed the thinking from your earlier post, then we would be sacrificing the safety, health, and lives of all of those people too b/c it is simply impossible to review everyone's crime on a case by case basis. Certainly you might be able to pin point a rapist, but can you distinguish btwn a paranoid schizophrenic who flips out and strangles a crying baby from a completely sane man who murders a baby to get back at its father/mother? On the surface, these might look nearly the same though I doubt that the same punishment would be applicable. That is the issue that I took w/your solution.

Additionally, I made no assumptions about you thinking that the situation that the victims are in is fair. I responded to your comment that it isn't fair for the people in the Texas towns to have to suffer due to the inflow of criminal victims as well. My point is, no it isn't fair to them, but so what? None of this week has been fair, but we all have to adjust and do the best we can to improve the situation. As I stated, it is nearly impossible to weed each criminal out, so each city that is offering support will have to find ways to cope and maintain order whether it is fair or not.

So you're saying let the schizophrenic strangle the baby and don't shoot him?

-Rudey

[Marie]

Originally posted by Rudey
So you're saying let the schizophrenic strangle the baby and don't shoot him?

-Rudey

No, I'm saying that they need to be evacuated as well and given medical aide to stabalize their mental state rather than being left to die w/the rest of the hoodlums as per PM_Mama00's solution.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Marie
No, I'm saying that they need to be evacuated as well and given medical aide to stabalize their mental state rather than being left to die w/the rest of the hoodlums as per PM_Mama00's solution.

Well if someone is choking my baby, I'll shoot him.

If someone is choking your baby, you can wait and see if someone provides them with medical aide so they stop.

Whether or not they are nut jobs or criminals, they are choking a baby.

Whether or not they are nut jobs or criminals, shooting them will take care of it.

-Rudey

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Marie
No, I'm saying that they need to be evacuated as well and given medical aide to stabalize their mental state rather than being left to die w/the rest of the hoodlums as per PM_Mama00's solution.

Give me an honest estimate, in your mind, of how many people trapped in New Orleans circa 3 days post-hurricane were mentally unstable due to lack of medication, versus those who were looting non-essential items.

My first guess puts the number in the former category firmly in the range of "tiny amount compared to the whole", while the latter sits firmly in the "fewer than we saw, but substantially more than any other group save those looting for survival," which has significant impact on the points you're trying to make, it would seem.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
And just an FYI.... I have no sympathy for drug addicts. They know what they are getting their selves into when they start and unfortunately some of these people are uneducated and don't know the dangers of drugs. But I really have no sympathy for those who make drug use an everyday part of their life. 3 of my exes were coke users, and I had absolutely no sympathy for the BS they had to go through while getting high.

But you want us to feel sorry for fat people, right, or those with FUPA?

[Marie]

Originally posted by Rudey
Well if someone is choking my baby, I'll shoot him.

If someone is choking your baby, you can wait and see if someone provides them with medical aide so they stop.

Whether or not they are nut jobs or criminals, they are choking a baby.

Whether or not they are nut jobs or criminals, shooting them will take care of it.

-Rudey

You've lost me. We weren't discussing defending one's self or others. We were talking about evacuation plans, and whether or not some people should have been left behind.

[Marie]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Give me an honest estimate, in your mind, of how many people trapped in New Orleans circa 3 days post-hurricane were mentally unstable due to lack of medication, versus those who were looting non-essential items.

My first guess puts the number in the former category firmly in the range of "tiny amount compared to the whole", while the latter sits firmly in the "fewer than we saw, but substantially more than any other group save those looting for survival," which has significant impact on the points you're trying to make, it would seem.

KSig, I feel your point, and I don't at all doubt that there are many people who are just taking advantage of the situation. My point is just that there are some who are not, and they don't deserve to just be tossed away. Everyone on here admits that there are people who are doing what they have to do to survive (stealing food & supplies), however, the president has said that there should be zero tolerance making them criminals as well. According to PM_Mama00's plan they along w/the 3 mentally ill people should just be abandoned to the Superdome. Of course I do not believe that this is actually what she wants done, but I do think that this hasty 'lets just lock up or segregate the bad people' attitude reflects some larger issues in our society, which disgusts me.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by Marie
KSig, I feel your point, and I don't at all doubt that there are many people who are just taking advantage of the situation. My point is just that there are some who are not, and they don't deserve to just be tossed away. Everyone on here admits that there are people who are doing what they have to do to survive (stealing food & supplies), however, the president has said that there should be zero tolerance making them criminals as well. According to PM_Mama00's plan they along w/the 3 mentally ill people should just be abandoned to the Superdome. Of course I do not believe that this is actually what she wants done, but I do think that this hasty 'lets just lock up or segregate the bad people' attitude reflects some larger issues in our society, which disgusts me.

Holy effin shit batman when did I say that the mentally ill should be left there too? STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH or keyboard or whatever the hell you wana call it. Did you read my whole post? And btw I was gona tell you that I didn't think of it that way but since you're gona keep ASSUMING things then what's the point?

And valkyrie, I never told people to feel sorry. There's one thing to not feel sympathetic towards people, it's another thing to make fun of them. And overweight people trying to do something about it are ALOT different than drug addicts who do nothing but hurt society. When was the last time you heard of an overweight person mugging someone to get money to feed their addiction?

[Marie]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Holy effin shit batman when did I say that the mentally ill should be left there too? STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH or keyboard or whatever the hell you wana call it. Did you read my whole post? And btw I was gona tell you that I didn't think of it that way but since you're gona keep ASSUMING things then what's the point?

And valkyrie, I never told people to feel sorry. There's one thing to not feel sympathetic towards people, it's another thing to make fun of them. And overweight people trying to do something about it are ALOT different than drug addicts who do nothing but hurt society. When was the last time you heard of an overweight person mugging someone to get money to feed their addiction?

Girl, I know you can't be this dense. You said that you'd rather that the hoodlums be left at the Superdome to form their own little felon society and essentially kill themselves off. I have pointed out (fairly clearly, I think) that not everyone who may appear to be a hoodlum necessarily is. Since we don't have time or manpower to sort out the true hoodlums from the rest and then restrain the 'bad' ones in the Superdome, then your plan is a little weak. Now I granted that you might have been frustrated and over generalized, but come on. Please don't try to act like your original argument was sound.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
And valkyrie, I never told people to feel sorry. There's one thing to not feel sympathetic towards people, it's another thing to make fun of them. And overweight people trying to do something about it are ALOT different than drug addicts who do nothing but hurt society. When was the last time you heard of an overweight person mugging someone to get money to feed their addiction?

I can't tell you about the last time I heard about a drug addict mugging someone to get money to feed his or her addiction.

Why is it okay for you to generalize and lump all drug addicts together? You can complain about how they do nothing but hurt society -- but do you really understand drug addiction and how it happens? Wouldn't it annoy you if I posted about how fat people hurt society? I mean, look at how our insurance premiums go up because all these fat people are having heart attacks!

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Wouldn't it annoy you if I posted about how fat people hurt society? I mean, look at how our insurance premiums go up because all these fat people are having heart attacks!

What about those who have GENETIC REASONS for being morbidly obese?

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by Marie
Girl, I know you can't be this dense. You said that you'd rather that the hoodlums be left at the Superdome to form their own little felon society and essentially kill themselves off. I have pointed out (fairly clearly, I think) that not everyone who may appear to be a hoodlum necessarily is. Since we don't have time or manpower to sort out the true hoodlums from the rest and then restrain the 'bad' ones in the Superdome, then your plan is a little weak. Now I granted that you might have been frustrated and over generalized, but come on. Please don't try to act like your original argument was sound.

I know you know how to type but do you know how to read? I wasn't thinking "hoodlums" the same as "people with mental disabilities acting out because they don't have their medicine".

And btw I was gona tell you that I didn't think of it that way but since you're gona keep ASSUMING things then what's the point?

That's my quote. That I was going to tell you that I didn't think of it in terms of weeding out those who need the medicine and those who are using this tragedy to create more crime. But since you keep assuming things that I'm thinking what's the point? I'm sure you'll turn this post into something else.

Valkyrie--- yes I do know about drug addictions, how they start, different reasons why they start, the physical and psychological and sociological side effects, and what the addict has to go through to end the problem. I took Drugs, Alcohol and Society with an awesome teacher who taught us all these things. Of course I've never seen a person go through withdrawal (or it could have been him lying and saying he had the "flu") but I've seen people on coke, acid, heroin and it's a horrible thing to see so I cut myself off from that.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Valkyrie--- yes I do know about drug addictions, how they start, different reasons why they start, the physical and psychological and sociological side effects, and what the addict has to go through to end the problem. I took Drugs, Alcohol and Society with an awesome teacher who taught us all these things. Of course I've never seen a person go through withdrawal (or it could have been him lying and saying he had the "flu") but I've seen people on coke, acid, heroin and it's a horrible thing to see so I cut myself off from that.

So with your vast awareness of the struggles faced by individuals addicted to various substances, I would just think that you'd be a little more sympathetic to the plight of people in NO who have had to deal with such a dilemma. That's all I'm sayin'.

[PM_Mama00]

I totally understand what you're saying. I don't know much about NO so I admit that's where I'm wrong. I guess I should change my comment to

"I have no sympathy for addicts who are participating in crime that just makes this whole tragedy even more tragic".

I hope that came out right. I can't think straight today and can't really get out exactly how I'm feeling.