Toast Song - Page 6

tbdumpsterdiver · #76 01-15-2007, 03:59 PM

I am glad the Toast Song didn't get changed. I like tradition and I came into this Fraternity knowing that everyone was referred to as a Brother (which to me is an inclusive term) and I love being called a Brother. I think when we get to the point of pointing out the difference in the gender of our members, we begin to focus on issues besides Leadership, Friendship and Service. It does not matter what gender you are - everyone being Brothers puts us all on the same level.

naraht · #77 01-15-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbdumpsterdiver

I am glad the Toast Song didn't get changed. I like tradition and I came into this Fraternity knowing that everyone was referred to as a Brother (which to me is an inclusive term) and I love being called a Brother. I think when we get to the point of pointing out the difference in the gender of our members, we begin to focus on issues besides Leadership, Friendship and Service. It does not matter what gender you are - everyone being Brothers puts us all on the same level.

In order of preference, I'd prefer the current situation followed by adding Epsilon Mu's third verse followed by changes to the first two verses. Show me an extension effort where our toast song trips them up and I'll be OK with approved alternate wording in places where the administration has cattle over the idea...

NemACEsis · #78 04-30-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbdumpsterdiver

I am glad the Toast Song didn't get changed. I like tradition and I came into this Fraternity knowing that everyone was referred to as a Brother (which to me is an inclusive term) and I love being called a Brother. I think when we get to the point of pointing out the difference in the gender of our members, we begin to focus on issues besides Leadership, Friendship and Service. It does not matter what gender you are - everyone being Brothers puts us all on the same level.

AMEN! The Toast Song does NOT need to be changed at all! We are ALL members of Alpha Phi Omega, we are ALL BROTHERS! Why change something that has become a sign of equalness! No words need to be written, no words need to be changed.

"Heart of a NemACEsis"
2-ZP-FA05

The Mighty Zeta Phi - Black Beta - Chapter

Senusret I · #79 04-30-2007, 06:17 PM

I really wish Zeta Phi had sent delegates to convention so that your voices could have been heard.

naraht · #80 05-02-2007, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NemACEsis

AMEN! The Toast Song does NOT need to be changed at all! We are ALL members of Alpha Phi Omega, we are ALL BROTHERS! Why change something that has become a sign of equalness! No words need to be written, no words need to be changed.

"Heart of a NemACEsis"
2-ZP-FA05

The Mighty Zeta Phi - Black Beta - Chapter

Remember, it has been changed before *and* the toast song doesn't date back to the founding 14 brothers. First verse was proposed by a brother of Iota chapter (U of Iowa) in 1931 and the second verse by a brother of Epsilon Mu (U of Maryland, College Park) in the 1963/1964. Having said that, I am in favor of no change.

There have been *rumors* that university administrations have denied us the ability to expand onto their campuses because of the phrasing, but I have not seen anything specific. Should that prove true, I would probably swing to supporting some sort of alternate *local* phrasing which can be used if necessary (like the alternate pledging process).

Also, there are a few chapters which have chosen to go with local phrasing on their own. I don't believe any action has been taken against them.

YiLFS
Randolph Finder

docholliday1925 · #81 10-02-2007, 12:12 PM

I say keep the song as it is because it is one of the few traditions that Alpha Phi Omega has left. I am in a co-ed chapter here at Stephen F. Austin in Texas, and we recognize everyone as "brothers", regardless of gender. So, I say keep it the way it is.

Senusret I · #82 10-02-2007, 12:14 PM

Can you please name the other traditions that Alpha Phi Omega has "lost?"

docholliday1925 · #83 10-02-2007, 12:39 PM

well, we need to get back to telling the whole history of the fraternity, and why it was formed. I am a man who is always looking for new information and is seeking new ideas to help better my chapter while in school.

Senusret I · #84 10-02-2007, 12:47 PM

Well here's a used edition of the now out-of-print APO history book.

Other than the inconsistencies in the story of the founding, what other "traditions" have we lost?

naraht · #85 10-02-2007, 08:47 PM

Are you refering to my concern (for which I tried to get the Story behind the founding changed) about the fact that FRH didn't actually leave the United States until after the Armistace(sp?) was signed? I've done a great deal more research on that. It seems the United States didn't actually sign the peace treaty that ended World War I for everyone else. The war didn't end for the United States until some specific congressional action in 1920. For the purposes of American Law, he was deployed to the North Sea during World War I, it had just ended for everyone over in Europe. He would be considered a War veteran however by American Law.

Senusret I · #86 10-02-2007, 08:51 PM

No, that's not what I'm talking about.

The Story of the Founding has actually been edited at least once in a way that I feel is significant. Me and Virtuous Woman discussed this once a few years back... I will see if I have an old Pledge Manual on my hard drive to jog my memory.

naraht · #87 10-02-2007, 08:52 PM

Well the Toast Song wasn't present at the founding, the first verse wasn't composed until 1931, the second verse was added in 1964.

The fraternity has changed the following things since founding: The crest, the pledge pin, the title of almost all of our officers (Frank Reed Horton was first elected as Supreme Grand Master), our "type" of fraternity (we weren't Alpha Phi Omega, National Service Fraternity, until 1935), our membership requirements, the number of people necessary to start a chapter, whether the local Boy Scout Council has to approve new chapters and many other things...

naraht · #88 10-02-2007, 09:00 PM

At work I have scan of the Torch and Trefoil that first had the story behind the founding in it (1963?), I'll see if I can find that and compare...

KAPital PHINUst · #89 10-03-2007, 04:20 PM

There are quite a few inconsistencies in Alpha Phi Omega, one of which is yes, the Story of the Founding. Over the years the wording has been altered to become more "politically correct", something I have always disagreed with.

Another little known fact about APO is that it was originally a Scouting-based fraternity with more byzantine/Masonic-esque elements (the original officer titles kinda leaned more toward that you would see in a "social" fraternities). I was told that the original initiation ritual was one that was totally different from the one we all know of.

APO did not officially become a "Service fraternity" until around 1940.

As for the Toast Song, I am somewhat disturbed that the music to our song is a generic-based tune. I was kinda shocked seeing the movie "The Tuskeegee Airmen" and hearing the air cadets sing a WWII fight song to the tune of our toast song.

I say if the Toast Song has to be changed, change the music, not the lyrics. Make the music to a melody/harmony that we can own the copyright to. While I know the song has tradition, we can never truly say that the song is our own. Just my opinion.

naraht · #90 10-03-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

There are quite a few inconsistencies in Alpha Phi Omega, one of which is yes, the Story of the Founding. Over the years the wording has been altered to become more "politically correct", something I have always disagreed with.

Another little known fact about APO is that it was originally a Scouting-based fraternity with more byzantine/Masonic-esque elements (the original officer titles kinda leaned more toward that you would see in a "social" fraternities). I was told that the original initiation ritual was one that was totally different from the one we all know of.

APO did not officially become a "Service fraternity" until around 1940.

As for the Toast Song, I am somewhat disturbed that the music to our song is a generic-based tune. I was kinda shocked seeing the movie "The Tuskeegee Airmen" and hearing the air cadets sing a WWII fight song to the tune of our toast song.

I say if the Toast Song has to be changed, change the music, not the lyrics. Make the music to a melody/harmony that we can own the copyright to. While I know the song has tradition, we can never truly say that the song is our own. Just my opinion.

I still want to check the story of the founding for changes, I believe that it has changed, but don't remember any changes to it at the conventions I attended.

The Mason-esqe elements were more or less removed during the 1930s, during HRBartle's first term. I doubt those would ever come back... As for the changes to the Ritual, I know there were some significant changes in the 1930s to the ritual, my guess is that alot of what changed was removal of Masonic Elements... I'd *love* to see our original ritual.

The official change to Service Fraternity was at the 1934 convention.

I agree that it is wierd to hear other lyrics to the tune of the toast song, but the ultimate wierdness is hearing the Drinking song that Francis Scott Key ended up putting the lyrics to the Star Spangled Banner to.