Why is Rush so Cut-throat on the Sororities' End at Big Greek Schools?

[OleMissGlitter]

Don't forget about Ole Miss Rush....we have 9 NPCs, and this year there should be about 1000 girls going through rush. Last year there was about 900....quota was 86 with some houses getting up to 95...and all of the houses here do release...and it is very cut-throat...that is why they moved rush back to take place during school...when I went through rush back in 1996 it was before school started and girls would leave and transfer to Mississippi State or Alabama and go through rush there and get into the house they wanted there....also, which I'm sure all Southern Schools have this, is suicide watch takes place during rush at Ole Miss, apparently girls have attempted suicide because the house they wanted released them....

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by adpiucf
I believe (ZTAngel, Sherbertlemons, please correct me if I'm wrong) that our quota was determined solely by dividing the number of PNM's who were invited to prefs by the number of sororities. Thus if 500 women were invited back to prefs, and there are 10 sororities, quota was set at 50.

Now, of course UCF hasn't seen a quota that low since 1995... but you get my drift.

It's interesting to read what others have to say about the "pecking order." I think it exists, at some level, at UCF, but we have this marvelous cycling in and out of the perceived chapter rankings, mainly due to a huge amount of sorority expansion in a very short time. I think also, as the Greek System has grown at the university, you've seen a certain level of exclusivity go up a notch.

I think that's correct. UCF has a pretty high placement rate. Most of our PNMs will get one of their top three choices. If not, the chapters that don't make quota are eligible to snap bid.

"Pecking order" certainly exists at UCF but it has changed a lot since I went through rush. Although the "top sororities" are still regarded as being excellent chapters, some of the chapters that were considered "weaker" when I went through rush are now some of the best. I'm sure adpiucf and sherbetlemons would agree but the reason some of the sororities stay in their top position is because of the housing situation. Many PNMs prefer a chapter that has a house on campus and this hurts the 4 sororities (well...5 in the Fall) that do not have a house on Greek Park. They're supposed to start constructing Greek Village sometime this Fall from what I hear and I think this will definitely up the ante.

[adpiucf]

Ditto that! I remember in particular, one sorority got a house in the late 90's. They had colonized strong, fallen back a little and once they got that house, they took off!!!! It was always a great chapter full of campus leaders, but their perceived "value" went up significantly with the addition of their house. I was friends with many of those girls, and I'm thrilled that they are going strong.

It is an unfair advantage on UCF Greek Row for some sororities to have houses, for the most part. Although those without a house enjoy significantly lower dues, PNM's place high stock in a chapter house. It's not right, but that's the campus culture at the university. I am very excited for Greek Park II to break ground, and give all of our wonderful UCF chapters an even playing ground.

[OleMissGlitter]

So only some NPCs have houses at UCF?

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by OleMissGlitter
So only some NPCs have houses at UCF?

I know for sure Kappa does not have a house. I believe UCF has been expanding - Kappa colonized two years ago (?) and I know AEPhi is also colonizing.

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by OleMissGlitter
So only some NPCs have houses at UCF?

Unfortunately, yes. Greek Park began construction sometime in the 80's. Any chapter that colonized onto campus later on was SOL because all the lots were taken. Greek Park 2 has been planned for years now but there has been a lot of environmental/ecological factors that prohibit the construction of more houses in the area where GP2 was supposed to be built. UCF's campus is already completely planned out; we don't have a stadium yet but there is land somewhere on campus that is slated to be the place for the stadium one day. Because the campus is planned, there was no way to just place GP2 in another place on campus. It's unfortunate because I'd say the majority of our GLOs are unhoused. All of the NPHC organizations, most of the NIC fraternities, and 5 NPC sororities have no house on campus. Here's a list to show how little of the GLOs have a house compared to those who do not:

NPC/NIC GLOs with a house
Pike
ZTA
Alpha Xi
ADPi
TriDelta
KD
SAE
Kappa Sig
Pi Phi
ATO
Sig Ep
Sigma Chi

NPC/NIC GLOs without a house
ChiO
DG
Theta
KKG
AEPhi (coming this fall)
AEPi
Beta
DTD
DU
LXA
Lambda Sigma Upsilon
Lambda Theta Phi
Phi Delt
FIJI
Pi Kapp
Sigma Lambda Beta
Sigma Nu
TKE
Plus all NPHC GLOs

They're supposed to break ground on GP2 this fall. It's going to be set up more as a village as opposed to individual houses to help conserve space.

[James]

I have figured it out. I think . . .



I'll make a thread to discuss this later but I thought I would quickly chime in.

In the schools with really "competitive" Rush, Formal Rush is designed to give quota to the majority of houses based almost exclusively on incoming freshmen that are begging to join. They don't have to recruit anyone.

An automatic population if you will.

The local PC knows approximately how many girls are coming through formal every year. In order to ensure that most houses get quota without having to COB, quota has to be designed around a smaller number than actually comes out.

Which is why its necessary to devise a system that has heavy cutting. IF quota matched the initial numbers that signed up for rush, the most popular houses would still get quota, but more of the bottom and middle tier would have to COB.

So it "appears" fairer for the more popular houses to really have to cut, because it reduces overall numbers in such a way that quota is more attainable for the less popular chapters.

Which is a bit of a mental hallucination, because if quota was higher more PNMs might actually end up placed in the top houses they wanted (the ones that cut them because they had to), but it would look like there was a greater discrepancy in the less popular houses.

For example, the less popular house gets 50 when quota is 60, or gets 50 when quota is 70.

Thats operating uner the assumption that a decent amount of girls that get cut from top houses refuse to pledge bottom tier ones. And since i know people that have done that, I believe its true.

So if I am correct, the system loses the girls that the top or middle tier would have liked to take if they could, but refuse to pledge bottom tier houses.

Is that a problem? And is there a solution? I think its a good discussion point.

[AnchorAlumna]

James, honey.
Almost 9 on a Saturday night, and you're posting a reply on a sorority-related thread that two weeks old.
A good-looking guy like you ought to be ought having fun.
Turn the computer off. Step away. Turn around. Get out of the house. I promise you the computer will be there tomorrow.
(I have an excuse...I'm old and married and too pooped to pop out).

[James]

LOL, we go out late in the NE Although tonight was an early night, just a late dinner.

Originally posted by AnchorAlumna
James, honey.
Almost 9 on a Saturday night, and you're posting a reply on a sorority-related thread that two weeks old.
A good-looking guy like you ought to be ought having fun.
Turn the computer off. Step away. Turn around. Get out of the house. I promise you the computer will be there tomorrow.
(I have an excuse...I'm old and married and too pooped to pop out).

[FSUZeta]

great observations, as always. and anchoralumna:too funny!!

All this talk about southern schools and rush......

When i went to Arkansas and When i was a RA it was pretty intense

My first roommate dropped out and moved back to washington state because she didnt get the house she wanted....she took the bid that was given to her and dropped out 3 days later...making me dodge the calls from the house.


When i was an RA i had to watch very carefully for a few girls on my floor because one was very emotionally upset and we did in fact have to watch her for suicide watch.

this all makes me very glad i was an Alum Initiate. I went thru rush and didn't get a bid ( age is a big factor) and the other house i was suppose to go thru COB with was closing down so they couldn't even save it with one more new member

At Arkansas Rush is some SERIOUS SERIOUS business! Very cut throat. The houses on campus are all pretty big names and everyone knows them coming on.

I come from a HUGE southern Family and have cousins and aunts who are top tier GLOS and they say the same thing.....

southern ancestry, tradition, legacy, reputation, cut throat, $$$!

[KSUViolet06]

Originally posted by cutiepatootie
All this talk about southern schools and rush......
When i went to Arkansas and When i was a RA it was pretty intense.
When i was an RA i had to watch very carefully for a few girls on my floor because one was very emotionally upset and we did in fact have to watch her for suicide watch.
At Arkansas Rush is some SERIOUS SERIOUS business! Very cut throat. The houses on campus are all pretty big names and everyone knows them coming on.

I'm always shocked and amazed when I hear about how competitive rush is schools like Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, etc.

Makes me very glad that I go to a big "Yankee" school- Kent State- where we're exstatic if we get close to 250 PNMs, are overwhelmed with a quota of like 25, 95% of PNMs get their top choice, and a WHOPPING 4 women went totally bidless last fall

[Firehouse]

James, you pose an interesting question. You have asked about all the women who drop out of sorority rush because they are not willing to pledge a house of lower prestige. You've asked whether that's a problem, and if so, what is the solution.
I believe I know the answer (as I believe you do too), but there are two problems: 1) Women are smarter than us men generally, and since they are aware of that they assume that our answer carries no real importance and that they alone are right about all things to do with sorority rush; and 2) since we are guys and have enough to keep us busy with our own fraternity chapters, we should consider the possibility that sorority rush is none of our business.
That said, I am happy to provide the simple answer to your question: free enterprise.
Sorority formal rush has evolved into the most rigidly structured form of socialism. Everyone except the very worst chapter is guaranteed a pledge class, and the top chapters are guaranteed a top pledge class with very little effort on their part. The aboslute worst is deferred formal rush. By January, everyone knows who's who. Potential members certainly know who's on top, and who's on the bottom, and as for the middle - well, who cares?
Yet, the most vocal and most passionate supporters of formal soroity rush with all its convoluted terms and rules seem to be the chapters that dwell in the lower half of the heirarchy. They cling to the myth - somehow, for some reason - that the Panhellenic ideal is that we all love each other and all houses are equally respected, and that it doesn't really matter which house you join because we're all Greeks together working on Homecoming floats and Dance Marathon and isn't that the most important thing after all...
The sororities at the top benefit the most. They have the reputations, and they know that even if they TRY to screw up in rush they're going to do well, because they know no matter what happens, under the rigid rule structure YOUR sorority is never allowed to pledge any more girls than MY sorority. There's literally no chance that some dynamic, enthusiastic, creative rush chairman and her chapter can come in and clean your clock. If quota is 45, they're not allowed to pedge 70 and set the campus on its ear. We had this discussion in another thread about fraternities at Oklahoma. Until recent years a have-not, the upstart Sig Eps pledged 75 men - about 25 more than the IFC "allowed" - as a way of breaking into the elite. The biggest complaints came not from the top tier fraternities, but from those in the middle or near the bottom. "SigEp took guys we would have gotten." Well, you should have gotten them yourself anyway, if you were ambitious. You see, the middle tier houses have no ambition to be anything other than what they are. They seem astonished ny the fact that given the choice, men would rather have a Mercedes than a Kia provided that the cost is the same. The mid-tier groups want the protection of limiting the number of Mercedes sold. Yes, they're guaranteed to sell some Kias, but they'll never have Mercedes dealership.
A free enterprise system for sororities would mean that any given sorority has the opportunity to improve their standing in the pecking order. At large, established systems such an opportunity does not now exist.
Free enterprise for sororities does not mean that they have to give up formal rush. But, if you want to see more women in the system, and fewer drop out of rush, then remove the caps (total) and restrictions on rush (quota). Let XYZ sorority earn their pledge class, and let lower-standing-but-ambitious ABC sorority pledge as many as they want in formal rush. To say the low-performers can always rush later like saying the law is fair because prohibits kings as well as beggers from sleeping under bridges. In the minds of rushees, when formal rush is over, it's ALL over. Often, sororities forced to open rush afterward lack confidence to be effective and are stigmitized as being not good enough.
If rush is wide open from a numbers standpoint, then the different chapters will rush differently. They won't all have the same skits and all sing the same praises of the Panhellenic Ideal. Those who are more aggressive will be rewarded; those who are lazy will pay a price. I've heard some on this board imply that "a pledge class of 75 or a chapter of 200 is unweildy." Why? What do you care? What business is it of yours? If So-and-So sorority is the one everyone is dying to join, let them pledge 100 if they want. If their chapter grows to 300 or 400, then according to those who say it's "unweildy", that sorority will collapse under its own weight and someone else will take their place. The fact is that those things just don't happen. In a free system, there's always someone who's lazy and loses their grip on the top spot, and there's always someone else who's ambitious and wants to take it from them. In a free system, the rushees are impressed by the dynamic sales abilities that sorority women are then allowed to show.
Here's a simple question: in a sorority formal rush, if quota is 35 and total is, say 100, why can't the small 30-member sorority pledge 50 or 60 girls in formal rush if they can get them to join? Panhellenic can provide no legitimate answer to that question. "It's the rules", they say and cast their eyes Heavenward as if to say I wish we could help you but we can't possibly violate the sanctity of The Rules, even if it makes sense.
What would such changes accomplish? Well, free enterprise would bring more women into the system, and the system would be forced to add new chapters to meet increased demand. Women might start out wanting to join XYZ because of their reputation, but once exposed to the unconventional rush tactics of ABC, they might find they like that experience more.
Isn't all this kind of what you had in mind, James?

[AnchorAlumna]

Firehouse,
Your reasoning makes a lot of sense. I think you are probably right.
One point: you ask, "if quota is 35 and total is, say 100, why can't the small 30-member sorority pledge 50 or 60 girls in formal rush if they can get them to join?"
The answer is yes, according to NPC rules, they can. Now, the individual campus may restrict to quota during formal rush, but after Bid Day, yes, they may pledge up to total, and have a new member class of however many it takes to get up to total.
Someone please set me straight, but I believe NPC is testing out going away from "chapter total" to a concept of "average chapter size" or something like that.

[pinkyphimu]

Originally posted by Firehouse
In the minds of rushees, when formal rush is over, it's ALL over. Often, sororities forced to open rush afterward lack confidence to be effective and are stigmitized as being not good enough.

this i agree with...almost 100%! i completely disagree that some groups lack confidence with the cob process. for some smaller chapters, they are MUCH better at the relaxed and less fake process known as COB. i completly agree with the rest of this statement. some rushees would rather not be greek at all than consider going through cob. there are definately people (greek and nongreek) on campus that will look down on the chapter or two that have to cob...which only makes PNMs want to be a part of that chapter less.

it is kind of annoying because in reality, there is probably nothing bad about the chapters who need to cob. it is hard to break out of a cycle, especially if your campus is steeped in traditions and if the repuations continue...even years after they have changed.

my biggest pet peeve during this time of recruitment threads occurs when suzie pnm writes that she didn't get asked back to any houses she wanted, so she dropped out. we all are trying to be supportive and say, "oh honey, give cob a try" when realistically, the chapters that invited her back....are the ones who will be cobing....and are the ones she felt like it would be better to drop out of recruitment than to even go to their parties. do you think she is really going to go to cob? no...i hate that we pretend she will! (sorry this just makes me aggravated)