Meanwhile at UCLA, Sig Ep and Alpha Phi do Kanye & Kardashians

[Gdimom1]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I think Kim identifies as mixed-race.

Kim is NOT mixed race. Her mother was born Kristin Mary Houghton of Irish descent. Her father was the late Robert Kardashian. Kardashian was Armenian. Armenians are a Caucasian people ( literally ....Armenia is in the Caucasus mountains. ) His complexion like Kim's was olive.

[Gdimom1]

@deltabetababy. The thing is that Kanye combined WITH Kim has reached a level of celebrity so high it's hard to compare to anyone else now or even in the recent past. Think of the times one or the other has dominated the news. Kanye's comments at awards shows including the one about President Bush, stealing the mike fromTaylor Swift, his antics with paparazzi, the fact that Obama just made fun of his comments that he's going to run for President in 2020. And then Kim and her reality show her " breaking the internet" photos, the televised mega wedding followed the quickie divorce, the two of them marrying and having a baby they named North West ( even they couldn't resist playing around with that last name) never mind her extended family, her former step fathers domination of the news, her sisters ex in it right now. And Kanye still a music star on top of it ...headlining the music festivals that the kids go to like Lalapalooza and making fantastic songs like FourFive Seconds with a white man whose exband indeed provides many a GLO party theme more than half a century since it was formed.

It's just hard to compare Kanye to any other artist working today is my point.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Gdimom1

It's just hard to compare Kanye to any other artist working today is my point.

This is indeed a good point. I think that a Kim/Kanye party is less problematic than rappers/hos or something like that. I would also personally tell any chapter who asked me to stay far, far away from either one.

[Munchkin03]

So, basically--you can't make fun or light of the antics of an especially ridiculous celebrity if that celebrity is a person of color.

Got it.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

So, basically--you can't make fun or light of the antics of an especially ridiculous celebrity if that celebrity is a person of color.

Got it.

Its the context.

In this case for Alpha Phi it was:

1. 'Kanye Western' party
2. Dress like old time gold diggers, smear charcoal on face.
3. Charcoal on face is interpreted as actually being 'blackface', and not just dirt.
4. History of historically white GLOs having blackface / ethnic themed parties.


If the 'Kanye Western' party was done by any other group, then this backlash may not have even come up.

Given that about a year ago the historically white GLO fraternity in Oklahoma was caught on camera singing a song using the N-word, plus all of the recent protests over police killings and beatings of Black people, then that leaves any other incident after all this as suspect.

I'm sure the APhis meant their party to be innocent fun, but their actions are being judged and viewed through all of these recent social happenings.

People outside of GLOs are not going to ponder and debate what is blackface and what isn't. The way it is being seen by the public is this is just another group of white people making fun of Blacks because Kanye West is Black.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Given that about a year ago the historically white GLO fraternity in Oklahoma was caught on camera singing a song using the N-word, plus all of the recent protests over police killings and beatings of Black people, then that leaves any other incident after all this as suspect.

Wow - I don't even know how to process that. Any other incident is already suspect? That's quite a broad brush.

You said upthread that the treatment these women are receiving is comparable to that of those who are unjustly incarcerated. I find the comparison faulty, but for the sake of discussion, what do you think should happen when those unjustly incarcerated people are found to have done nothing wrong? Do you think those responsible for the incarceration/damage to reputation owe the incarcerated person an apology? If so, what do you think these women are owed in response to their undeserved condemnation?

[BlueOwl]

I haven't checked in the past 24 hours, but last I looked the Alpha Phi chapter still had their Facebook, twitter, instagram STILL shut down and I have yet to read any kind of response from either that chapter or Alpha Phi nationals. I do know that the chapter was instructed to take down their social media sites during the "investigation". I'm frustrated ! Why isn't their national org giving them any support? I had hoped that the chapter, or nationals would have immediately sent a letter to all members of the chapter, the brand new pledge class, etc. telling them to hold tight, we are here to support you and help you through this! Instead, nothing! And new members have dropped out! Can't say I blame them either! They were scared. They were immediately judged and labeled as racists. Imagine what their parents back home thought? They probably called their daughters and told them to drop out immediately. I really think that Alpha Phi and Sig Ep have taken a big hit and they are deeply wounded. And what good is really coming from this? The Afrikan group was very very quick to harshly judge--and many have been deeply hurt. Did this fraternity party RUIN the fall quarter for the Afrikan American group???? Well, I do think that the fall quarter has been ruined for many members of Alpha Phi and Sig Ep at UCLA. I just do not see how anything good and valuable is going to come from this situation.

[BlueOwl]

And wouldn't this have been a great opportunity to bring the Afrikan American group members together with IFC and Panhellenic to actually TALK! Talk with respect. To really listen and seek to understand. Without threats and name calling! Without intimidation tactics. Maybe then something could have been learned and understood on both sides of the situation.

[DTD Alum]

"It looked like that man was jumping in a car to hijack that woman! It turns out after the evidence surfaced, she actually invited him in and they knew each other. But there has been a history of car hijacks in this area, and you know, this is all just so subjective, so if I interpret it as a hijacking, let's protest and charge him and put it in jail because that's what IIIIIII thought it was."

[Kevin]

Regarding who can sue here, I would imagine any individual in these chapters who has been adversely affected, or any of the chapters themselves, potentially house corporations, anyone who has been damaged in terms of income or reputation or even being prevented from hosting a party or having some outside entity like the school restrain them from posting on social media, would probably have standing to sue.

I'd love to see them go after the University, any administrator who was complicit in anything adverse and especially this dumbass Afrikan group. They all need to be made examples of or it could happen to any one of our chapters.

Any of our chapters who have ever been involved in any event where someone showed up with face paint (yes, that is all that happened here) could be in the same position, guilty and damaged until proven innocent. We need to ensure that there are consequences for universities which violate our civil rights and for students or organizations which slander and libel us.

That is exactly what the Oklahoma SAEs are doing right now. I hope they win big. If they do, maybe these bullies will realize that this isn't something they can get away with.

[BlueOwl]

Does anyone have an update? Chiolu, do you know what is happening at this point?

I am afraid that this will just be swept under the rug leaving two greek chapters very deeply bruised and their integrity not supported at all by administration. This has been a hard one for me to let go of because of the absurdity and lack of support for the fraternity and sorority involved. I will, however, let it rest. But if anyone has any follow up information please post.

[Kevin]

File some lawsuits!!! If we don't create consequences for the assholes involved in attacking our chapters, it will happen again and again. If this sort of thing had happened to my chapter, we'd have made it into a literal federal case.

[NWguy]

I'm just going to put this out there.

There are legitimate reasons to protest, but I don't believe in rioting - when you put other people in danger or damage someone else's property/credibility, you no longer are protesting.

Look, I'm a Hispanic guy - third generation. The Hispanic people in this country have been wronged and mistreated for decades, and I've seen some ridiculously bad, poorly-executed Mexican costumes in my day (Halloween, Cinco de Mayo, etc.), but I have never been offended.

Blackface is/was a bad idea, but another bad idea is frightening other people and putting their lives at risk. I'm with Kevin, sue anyone and everyone who organized the protest/riot and anyone who made a death threat.

The university should have called a cease fire and arranged a town hall meeting for all sides to come together and vent their frustration and offer apologies. Instead, it became a mess.

[1964Alum]

Originally Posted by NWguy

I'm just going to put this out there.

There are legitimate reasons to protest, but I don't believe in rioting - when you put other people in danger or damage someone else's property/credibility, you no longer are protesting.

Look, I'm a Hispanic guy - third generation. The Hispanic people in this country have been wronged and mistreated for decades, and I've seen some ridiculously bad, poorly-executed Mexican costumes in my day (Halloween, Cinco de Mayo, etc.), but I have never been offended.

Blackface is/was a bad idea, but another bad idea is frightening other people and putting their lives at risk. I'm with Kevin, sue anyone and everyone who organized the protest/riot and anyone who made a death threat.

The university should have called a cease fire and arranged a town hall meeting for all sides to come together and vent their frustration and offer apologies. Instead, it became a mess.

I completely agree with you, NWguy. Something that was in bad taste and perhaps unwise has spun completely out of control. The reaction is far worse than the offending incident which might not have been offending had it been understood.

[Kevin]

From the media I've reviewed, it seems some, instead of admitting that this might not be the best cause du jour around, have instead decided to double down. What credibility those individuals and organizations did have is in question now.