White or Homosexual members

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I know that Kappa at my school had Latino members. This was before the proliferation of MCGLOs.

[lovelyivy84]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
IN AN EFFORT TO GET THIS DISCUSSION BACK ON TRACK..........


To expand on Dexter's original question, what about other minority prospectives (i.e. Hispanic, Asian, etc.)? Just curious.......

I don't have a problem with it. I don't think a lot of others do either as it is less of a problem for one minority group to identify with another.

Same thing that goes for white members of AKA goes for them, if you can be down with our goals then we have no problems! You are my Soror and I will show you love!

[Happydaysf91]

Personally, I don't have a problem with either...as long as you pay your dues and stay active..... If I run into a white (or non-AA) or homosexual soror....I'll greet her just the same as my AA sorors. Now I can't say I wouldn't wonder why she chose such (and probably would ask her if we became friends), but hey...I'd realize she's a soror and we can hang....

One thing I must say is that...yes, to some non-AA's, this thread may seem racist. However, it is a lot of WGLO that wouldn't want AA in their organizations. I guess because this is a public forum, people think BGLOs shouldn't discuss this (Soror AKA2d -- its not politically correct -- smile). But what message do you think was sent to AAs by the WGLOs who mocked the Omegas? (as I recalled, it was a sorority and two fraternities at that party. And from the pictures everyone thought it was very cute and got a good laugh)? To me, it said that we don't want black people in our orgs. What message was sent to AA young women when the WGLO sorority didn't select the AA girl because other WGLO fraternities and sororities wouldn't want to have parties with them (at least that's what the article said)? To me, that says...some white people don't want us in their stuff?

My point is simple....in WGLO you have people who have the very same viewpoint. And some will base their views on their history and etc. just as my fellow BGLO sisters and brothers have done here. Basically, you will find people in both groups...WGLOs and BGLOs who don't want people of other races in their organizations. This is their personal opinion. Not the opinion of the entire organziation!!! And people have right to their own opinion. I think the problem here (why people think they are being bashed or etc.) is that people are trying to convince others that they are wrong or sway their opinions! And its not working.......

Just my .08 cent.....Continue on.

BTW....Racism still runs rampant in this country...it's just not as VISIBLE!! I know I experience it all the time....even if its just someone clinching their purse in the elevator, a white store clerk looking funny when you pay with a credit card, or simply a waiter adding in a tip to my charge because you know 'black folk don't tip'.....its all the same. And I have my JD, CPA and MBA and this still happens sometimes....So yes, its very alive!!!!! It may not be blantant, but it is living and breathing.....

[damasa]

Originally posted by APhiAce


If I was in a white organization, I would be thinking of how to use their resources to help my people. I find it hard to imagine that a white person would exclude their OWN people to help ours. I don't want our programs dilluted.
A white person has to have that understanding. If they are willing to submit to serving mostly Blacks, (when using frat time/resources)...then fine...you can join. But don't come in my org trying to "whitewash" it and waste the little resources we have "spreading the love". It sounds prejudice (not racist) but thats REAL. That is my only concern w/white folks in the frat.

Truth: What would be the response if this topic came up in a board of a frat/soror that was mostly white? What if the organization had members that brought up the topic of sketching african-americans joining or being members already? They started saying they should be weary or they don't want them to come in and trying to "blackwash" the fraternity and use the resourced to help out "their people." Would that be considered racist? Would it be wrong, unethical, what?

I'm not trying to bring up a huge brawl, and i'm not pointing my fingers at anyone, just asking a few simple questions, hoping to get a few educated answers.

"To be fake for even a second is to be fake for all of your life"

***edited part***

To all some history: I belong to a historically white fraternity, yet we do have eight african-american members, so I quess I don't quite understand some of the feelings i've read on here.

Further, about the wglos that mocked the omegas at a party, those were three organizations, they don't represent all wglos, and that should be know, to think otherwise would form stereotypes and prejudices, and I don't recall many people that talked about it as being "cute" because that shit ain't right at all and people that aren't ignorant know that.

d

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by damasa


Truth: What would be the response if this topic came up in a board of a frat/soror that was mostly white? What if the organization had members that brought up the topic of sketching african-americans joining or being members already? They started saying they should be weary or they don't want them to come in and trying to "blackwash" the fraternity and use the resourced to help out "their people." Would that be considered racist? Would it be wrong, unethical, what?

I'm not trying to bring up a huge brawl, and i'm not pointing my fingers at anyone, just asking a few simple questions, hoping to get a few educated answers.

"To be fake for even a second is to be fake for all of your life"

d

Damasa,

Please read all of the post on this board (especially the last one by Blackwatch). There is a wealth of information post by some that explain WHY BGLO's focus on AA communities.
If the roles were reversed and SOME white GLO members were saying that they did not want blacks in their org. (I would probaly participate in that thread and post some logical knowledge and not just my personal opinion or experiences) becasue they were founded to uplift the white community, would I consider that racism? Only if their definition of "uplifting the community" meant oppressing mine or any other minority.
BGLO's DO NOT go out and opress other groups of people while trying to better theirs. Yes, their main focus are on the African american community, just like LGLO's main focus is on the Latino community, as so on.
Please go and check out www.naacp.com and www.naawp.com and compare the two. These are two orgs, founded on two different historical bases, but yet, you teel me which one is the racist. No where on the NAACP's website will you find offensive speech, ideas, para', membership requirement, or anything of that nature, unlike the naawp.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by damasa



Further, about the wglos that mocked the omegas at a party, those were three organizations, they don't represent all wglos, and that should be know, to think otherwise would form stereotypes and prejudices, and I don't recall many people that talked about it as being "cute" because that shit ain't right at all and people that aren't ignorant know that.

d

Sooooo, those WGOL's do not represent all WGLO's, but yet, the opinion of a few BGLO members represent all BGLO's and its members????

[damasa]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974


Damasa,

Please read all of the post on this board (especially the last one by Blackwatch). There is a wealth of information post by some that explain WHY BGLO's focus on AA communities.
If the roles were reversed and SOME white GLO members were saying that they did not want blacks in their org. (I would probaly participate in that thread and post some logical knowledge and not just my personal opinion or experiences) becasue they were founded to uplift the white community, would I consider that racism? Only if their definition of "uplifting the community" meant oppressing mine or any other minority.
BGLO's DO NOT go out and opress other groups of people while trying to better theirs. Yes, their main focus are on the African american community, just like LGLO's main focus is on the Latino community, as so on.
Please go and check out www.naacp.com and www.naawp.com and compare the two. These are two orgs, founded on two different historical bases, but yet, you teel me which one is the racist. No where on the NAACP's website will you find offensive speech, ideas, para', membership requirement, or anything of that nature, unlike the naawp.

I have read all of the posts in this thread, some are rather disturbing, some are rather informative. To be honest, i can post whatever i want it can be an opinion and it doesn't have to be "logical knowledge" and I don't really know much about bglos, hence, my "logical knowledge" is kinda limited, but i stated that toward the end of my post I was just wanting to know because i know that many historically white glo's don't go out and promote a "white community" because in all honesty, many of them aren't comprised off all white members, but of a mix of many many races, not just black or white. So ok, it wouldn't involve pushing out or phasing out the "black community" but if the wglos brought up this topic, we'll say my glo, psd brought this up, would it be viewed as racist?

About the omega comment, i never said that all of the posts in this thread represent all views of all members in bglos, i just made a statement that what happened in that incident doesn't reflect all wglos.

About the whole naacp and naawp, for clarification, those are two completely different groups, and the naawp is shit. It is a racist movement, a slap in the face of the establishment of the naacp, and I don't view it as relevant matter to this subject. I hate the naawp as much as the kkk, f(#(#ng stupid skinheads and any other racist organization out there, including the black panther party, I don't agree with any group that ppposes/oppresses/discriminates against another group because of their race, gender, sex, sexual preference, religious infliction, physical and/or mental handicaps and on and on.

It's just, the african american members that we do have are proud, and damn proud, and when i read comments like, "why would the join" or "they should use their resources to help their people" it makes me wonder if they are truly happy being brothers, you know?

d

[Happydaysf91]

As to cute....

I was referring to the pictures on the website showing 'nooses', people smiling in their outfits and etc.....that's what I meant about people thinking such was 'cute'. The people in those pictures seemed/looked as though they were having a fabulous time. I didn't see anyone in those pictures that look like, 'what the heck is this...this is sooo wrong!' That's all I was saying.

I understand what you are saying...not all WGLOs are not like that. But that's the same way on this board. All BGLO are not saying this and only certain members of these groups have these views. Just like with WGLO The people on these boards don't even represent 1% of each organization. But, as previously stated, I guess the problem is that its being discussed on a
public forum.

And maybe in your organization its never discussed...but obviously in some WGLOs this is an issue from these most recent incidents.

I personally don't see a problem with this topic. Even if this topic wasn't posted, some members are BGLOs (not wanting non-AAs) and WGLOs (not wanting non-whites/blacks)would feel this same way. So what difference does it make if we discuss it. Closing down a thread is not going to change anyone's feeling.....maybe it will make some more comfortable. Why? I don't know......
To be honest...this has been a hot topic in BGLOs for a long time. 2 years ago...there was a big write up in Ebony magazine about whites in black organization and why they chose them. Its always talked about amongst us.

[damasa]

Originally posted by Happydaysf91
As to cute....

I was referring to the pictures on the website showing 'nooses', people smiling in their outfits and etc.....that's what I meant about people thinking such was 'cute'. The people in those pictures seemed/looked as though they were having a fabulous time. I didn't see anyone in those pictures that look like, 'what the heck is this...this is sooo wrong!' That's all I was saying.

I understand what you are saying...not all WGLOs are not like that. But that's the same way on this board. All BGLO are not saying this and only certain members of these groups have these views. Just like with WGLO The people on these boards don't even represent 1% of each organization. But, as previously stated, I guess the problem is that its being discussed on a
public forum.

And maybe in your organization its never discussed...but obviously in some WGLOs this is an issue from these most recent incidents.

I personally don't see a problem with this topic. Even if this topic wasn't posted, some members are BGLOs (not wanting non-AAs) and WGLOs (not wanting non-whites/blacks)would feel this same way. So what difference does it make if we discuss it. Closing down a thread is not going to change anyone's feeling.....maybe it will make some more comfortable. Why? I don't know......

I don't think the thread should be closed either, we are all adults here right? I just don't like to see the personal attacks that everyone throws out when it gets heated, i mean, hell if we all keep it kewl, we could express all our views, all learn something, i know i can because i don't know much about bglo's, and i'd like to learn a little, for reference and some kind of understanding.

About the cute thing, yea, it's a sick situation, sadly, shit like that does still happen, maybe all those people involved were ingnorant sob's or they thought they were "fitting in" or something or other.

True, not even 1% of our orgs are represented here, but for some people, that is al lthat it takes, that one person, that one time, that one thing for a person to form stereotypes, form racism, or form some other kind of negative view toward that group of people. But like I said, I would like to think of the many of us as better educated in a situation like that..ya know?
d

[AXO Alum]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by APhiAce
They aint none of our MASTERS! We are FREE! We have the right to express our opinions. If this topic is too REAL for them, then they need to skip this thread.

And "they" have the right to express their opinions. Whether it be in this forum, or any other. The same as the people who continually post about racist issues in other forums where again - no solutions are ever found. And the MASTERS issue -- dang, let me run out back and tell paw that the plantation house has to close because there ain't no more masters on GC.

I don't interpret homosexuality in line with our founders criteria for someone who exemplifies Manhood (which is different from just being male)...just my interpretation. Further it is unrealistic for everyone to full agree with EVERYTHING their org says. So if homos get in, its a personal problem for me, not the Frat at large.

I can totally agree with your interpretation of what your founders say - it is your organization and you are welcome to whatever interpretation of that you wish. And yes, times have changed - in our social code, it still says that gentlemen must always be present with a chaperone in the parlor room, and should never be allowed to see the private quarters of the women's house. So I would agree that it is unrealistic for everyone to fully agree with everything their org says -- times they are a changing

1) A certain group of people have been (and continue to be) oppressed by another group of people. I fall into the category of the ones oppressed so those are MY PEOPLE. 2) White people aren't racially oppressed by anyone so there is no need to FOCUS resources on that race. Blacks and people of color are...thus the need to look out for ourselves (because our white oppressor DEFINITELY are not) I don't have anything against helping someone in need. 3) But white people in need have more resources available than Black people in need. So I'm gonna focus the FEW resources we do have for us ON US! Like I said, I don't have a problem if a white person gets helped by us. Our resources are for us SPECIFICALLY, and others COINCIDENTALLY. I'm targeting helping OUR neighborhoods. If whites live in our neiborhoods, then they will be helped too. 4) Racism implies a power to oppress, which NO BLACK person HAS...There for I can't be racist. I can however be descrimatory and prejudice. Racism, Descrimination, and Prejudice are DIFFERENT words for a REASON (all though they are related).

1) We've had the "my" people discussion on here a million times before -- unfortunately, it seems that many blacks think that they are the only ones with "my" people. I guess that "my" people would include people of all colors and backgrounds. Since "American" isn't recognized as a category, I have to use my ancestors roots which are Scottish, Irish, African American (I'm also still under the assumption that Jesus was a man of color), German, Italian, Spanish, and English. Of course this isn't entirely accurate as my great-grandfather on my father's side was a horse thief and instead of being caught he moved and changed his name - so who knows if I have the rest of the UN in my blood.

2) It seems that on here some white people are being opressed due to race. And nothing else! Just like my momma says - life's not fair, but if you get out there and speak up for yourself, then no one has the power to hold you back. I think that is what we are all trying to do on here (speak up that is) just with different backgrounds to lead us.

3) White people in need have more resources? Hmm...I have done volunteer work for a wide variety of organizations including womens shelters, the Salvation Army, the United Way, Big Brothers/Sisters, etc. etc. and none of them have a checkbox on the application that says "whites check here for your additional resources" -- If white people had a program that was 100% solely dedicated to the uplifting of whites in need and the empowerment of whites, it would be racist...thus the existance of the KKK and the ignorant people who would be so bold as to create a naawp. The sole purpose of both is to promote hatred and I don't see either as being proudly served by ANY person on this board.

4) Yes, they are different words, but this is why there are different connotations for each as well. And the connotations for each can all be used interchangably depending on the situation or circumstance.

1) I can see your point about using the f*g word. I can use whatever word gays prefer for their behavior...it all means the same thing to me. There is no need for me to try and make them angry with a word they don't like. 2) As far as the harshness of what I'm saying...the racial problem (which in my opinion is as relevant and strong as ever) is more harsh for Blacks then any white could EVER imagine. We deal with it EVERYDAY...but when it comes across some whites computer screen they want to BAN the conversation so that they don't have to deal with it. The reality is that life is unfair. And it is MORE unfair for Blacks than whites. The scale is tipped in the favor of whites. I will use ALPHA to help BALANCE the scale. If I equally add weight to both sides of the scale, it will NEVER be balanced. Therefore, I'm adding ALL my weight to the BLACK SIDE!

3)...Kudos to any white people who are trying to balance the scale...I appreciate it.

1) - thanks for seeing my POV about the negative connotation of that word.

2) I don't buy that your problems are more harsh than I could ever imagine because of my skin color. Why? Because you don't have any more of an idea of how white people can be and are treated by others on a daily basis? Don't tell me "its a black thing, you wouldn't understand" (using it as an example, not a quote of yours) when you wouldn't understand where I come from either. The unfairness issue depends on which side of the fence you are standing (or of the scholarship in my case when I was denied 4 different scholarships based SOLELY on my skin color - I guess that my being white meant that I had *other resources* for getting through college...thus the loans that I still have). None of us has the right to say that the other has it harder because we don't know of each others lives and what we deal with on a day to day basis.

3) I say kudos to EVERYONE who tries to make a difference in their own little corner of the world. This is how solutions come about - when people try. Not when people sit around and point fingers and try to one up each other over who has the worst deal in life.

Again, as I was taught..."We do not hate. Period." I never heard an exception to this rule growing up -- and I was never allowed any excuses as to why my life wasn't lived with thanksgiving for what I do have. I am one person - I do not speak for all whites, my or any GLO, all women, etc. I can only speak for myself -- and that is what everyone should be doing.

[AXO Alum]

(I'm trying to be succint and combine some posts here so I don't end up quoting from all of them)

Happydaysf91, you say in your post:

"But what message do you think was sent to AAs by the WGLOs who mocked the Omegas? (as I recalled, it was a sorority and two fraternities at that party. And from the pictures everyone thought it was very cute and got a good laugh)? To me, it said that we don't want black people in our orgs. What message was sent to AA young women when the WGLO sorority didn't select the AA girl because other WGLO fraternities and sororities wouldn't want to have parties with them (at least that's what the article said)? To me, that says...some white people don't want us in their stuff?"

Well, in reply, I can't say it any better than to quote Dexter in two previous posts:

"So let me understand that if one member of an organization feels that way, then you indict ALL [W]GLOs? Do you see how asinine that sounds?"

"Because she not only contradicts herself, but judges an entire group of people because of the way a few of them feel."

I didn't think it was cute in the least -- and I certainly did not feel like any of the offending parties represented my personal views or the views of my org. If its not okay for one person to judge an entire group because the way a few of them feel, then its not okay for others to do the same thing. Especially not in the case of extreme ignorance such as the blackface situation.

Your next quote:

"Basically, you will find people in both groups...WGLOs and BGLOs who don't want people of other races in their organizations. This is their personal opinion. Not the opinion of the entire organziation!!! And people have right to their own opinion. I think the problem here (why people think they are being bashed or etc.) is that people are trying to convince others that they are wrong or sway their opinions! And its not working....... "

I agree, it is sad that some people in ALL orgs don't want people of other races to join. Its not just a white thing, and no, as I previously stated, it shouldn't reflect upon the entire organization. But I don't think that sharing a POV is the same as trying to convince another person to change their mind. We have seen in the past that that doesn't work anywhere - on here or in the "real" world beyond GC.

Next you say:

BTW....Racism still runs rampant in this country...it's just not as VISIBLE!! I know I experience it all the time....even if its just someone clinching their purse in the elevator, a white store clerk looking funny when you pay with a credit card, or simply a waiter adding in a tip to my charge because you know 'black folk don't tip'.....its all the same. And I have my JD, CPA and MBA and this still happens sometimes....So yes, its very alive!!!!! It may not be blantant, but it is living and breathing.....

I know that it still exists, and will always exist because people are people, and as such we will all carry different stereotypes of how we *think* others are. I also get to experience racism all the time -- one example is from black folks who think that its not right that I have a brother who is black. Do these ignorant few represent the entire black population - nope. So do the ignorant few that would act the fool to you on the elevator, in the store, etc. represent the entire white population...nope again. Its not fair that you have to deal with that mess -- its not fair that ANYONE should have to deal with issues because of their skin color. Which is why I make myself available on public opinion boards to say that and to offer my POV.

Damasa, in your post you say:

What if the organization had members that brought up the topic of sketching african-americans joining or being members already? They started saying they should be weary or they don't want them to come in and trying to "blackwash" the fraternity and use the resourced to help out "their people."

This is where I think there is a distinct difference -- never would I question the membership of a red, green, yellow, black, or purple person who sought membership in my org based on their skin color. And my sisters at the chapters I work with don't either. If you want to join us, then meet our 5 criteria and show us that you will be a value to the org and not just want the letters for your own personal gain. Have other members of WGLO's done it? Yes they sure have...have other members of BGLO's done it -- looks like it according the responses here. Is it fair in either? Not in my opinion because its never right to judge someone based solely on the skin color. Regardless of who is doing the judging. There should not be a double-standard when skin color is concerned.

You also say:

"To be fake for even a second is to be fake for all of your life"

I just love that quote.

Honeykiss1974, you say:

Please go and check out www.naacp.com and ww.naawp.com and compare the two.

I wouldn't honor the naawp with the number on their guest book to even consider viewing that mess. No more than I would sit here and look up stuff on the KKK for what I would consider "information" about them. Obviously some people are fools. I don't think its fair to compare the two because one obviously represents hatred. There is no white counterpart to the NAACP. I don't agree with the NAACP anymore than I agree with the KKK or the naawp -- because I think that segregation is wrong on all parts, and its not fair to say "you can't have your own group but we can" and then promote it as equality. I do however agree with the laws of this great country which entitles everyone to their opinion.

Happydaysf91 -- I did, for the record, read your most recent post, where you say:

not all WGLOs are not like that. But that's the same way on this board. All BGLO are not saying this and only certain members of these groups have these views.

I was quoting these in order of the posts, which is why I called attention to your post previous to this one. (Just didn't want anyone accusing me of not reading all the posts.)

I guess that my feelings are that people are different and will always be different. Its only a bad thing when people start using that as an excuse to create problems with others. Like I said - race is never an issue in the chapters I work with. Never. I'm sorry that its not that way in all org's (black and white) because I think a sister is a person that I will love unconditionally. Sure - things happen and she and I may disagree or even be totally pissed at each other. But that doesn't in any way elevate my status over her because we are sisters. And that is the way it should be.

I can't control each and every situation. I can't make the ignorant folks (of all colors) who think that I shouldn't have a brother of another color change their mind. I can't make the ignorant people who use racial slurs and protests to create drama change their mind. I can only control what I THINK, SAY, AND DO. And if I'm not making my Creator proud, not to mention my family and friends, then I'm not making myself proud...and there is no way to fool yourself in this situation.

Again, to quote my momma "We don't hate. Period."

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by AXO Alum


I wouldn't honor the naawp with the number on their guest book to even consider viewing that mess. No more than I would sit here and look up stuff on the KKK for what I would consider "information" about them. Obviously some people are fools. I don't think its fair to compare the two because one obviously represents hatred. There is no white counterpart to the NAACP. I don't agree with the NAACP anymore than I agree with the KKK or the naawp -- because I think that segregation is wrong on all parts, and its not fair to say "you can't have your own group but we can" and then promote it as equality. I do however agree with the laws of this great country which entitles everyone to their opinion.

AXO Alum,
Please go to the NAACP's & NAAWP's website and read it before you make judgements about the orgs based on what you have heard. The NAACP does not believe in segregation, nor will you find a "you can't have your own group but we can and then promote it as equality" type of mentality.
I truly believe (like I stated in a earlier post) that before we can offer solutions, everyone must have a clear, true understanding as too what's really going on - and not what you THINK is going on.

To everyone:
I believe that education for another's culture can foster appreciation for that culture. Education for the AA culture comes in more forms that just a MLK program during the month of February or having that one or two black friends that you knew from high school. It requires a person to "step out" and do something new. For example, (I'll use my culture) go next door and actually have a talk with your AA neighbors. Maybe read the Autobiography of Malcolm X. Go and attend the African AMerican Family Reunion in your local area. Small things like this is where education and maybe understanding can start.

[VirtuousErudite]

This whole conversation is going no where fast. It started off as an intelligent discussion and it has turned into an emotional bunch of mess. Those people are only citing posts that they can pick apart to make thier own arguments stronger and are totally ignoring numerous posts that differ from their ASSUMPTIONS of what African Americans believe. I find it interesting that certain people DID NOT want this conversation to take place at all, those people came to this forum and it has turned into nothing but emotionalism and attacks, and now it will DEFINATELY be closed soon because they can prove that this thread is against GC terms. I wonder did they accomplish thier mission and did we fall right into the trap????????

[Happydaysf91]

I must say...that I totally agree with Virtuous. We all can pick apart another's comment and quote different sections that stirs anger in others...but did you really get the point of the post?....I really don't think I like that function after this thread ....

Really....if you quote a person, you probably should quote the entire post....taken out of context, some things which are innocent turn into something that it really is not.....just like my quote in regards to the Omega/WGLO sorority...my point was simple: both groups have people with these opinions; we must respect each others' opinions; and the people on this board are not representive of our entire orgnanizations. However...by taking pieces...that point was lost.

This is just my opinion....I guess right now...its on to another thread or let's continue the topic at hand (not JUST responding to others)...... I'll start it off....as previously stated by me....

I don't have a problem with either...as long as you pay your dues and stay active..... If I run into a white (or non-AA) or homosexual soror....I'll greet her just the same as my AA sorors.

[sphinxpoet]

I have not been able to read every post but I must say this. The tone is not a intellegent but emotional. People understand this...people that state they do not want Whites and Homosexuals in their orgs because if these people become the majority they feel that the interest of the organization will be LOST. Now the other side of the argument is that if we fight for equality how can we deny others thier rights. None of these people in the BGLOs have the intention of offending people but stating their opinion! I have stated mine already! PLEASE be mindful of the tone.

Sphinxpoet