RFM Question

[ladybug12]

I can promise that the rumor about "A" is not true. All chapters may COB to quota, even if they are over campus total.

And it is not unusual for historically top recruiting chapters to miss quota. If they are competing with 3 other very strong recruiting chapters for the same 100 highly desired PNMs and quota is 40, someone is going to come up short.

RFM allows such a chapter smaller numbers to invite to each round because historically they have made quota using similar numbers. Something as basic as being a little "off" with pref conversation or having another group having a really great recruitment can give you results similar to those you described.

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by ksu4me

OK, so I haven’t been on Greekchat since I was a freshman, but I have a question and didn’t know where to get the answer. I tried looking through RFM threads, but didn’t really find an answer.

I thought about changing my username, but given the details it’s not too hard to figure out my university. Trust me--everyone on my campus that cares about the situation is already well aware of it. It’s even all over the “other board”, if you know which one I mean. Still, I’d appreciate it if GC posters would just use the generic tags that I am going to use. I don’t want to aggravate those that already have been hurt by this, and it could happen to any of our organizations.

I attend “University X” and we have a fairly big, fairly competitive recruitment. I've never been on the recruitment committee, but I do know we use the RFM system—I guess about everyone has to anymore. Anyway, when the dust settled after recruitment, one of the best recruiting chapters (A) ended up a dozen under quota! Another fairly popular chapter (B) also was several under quota, but 2 houses (C and D) that have traditionally had more challenges in recruiting/retaining ended up bidding more than a dozen over quota!!

To jack things up even further, rumor has it that “A” can’t COB this year because they are already over chapter total!

How does this happen, and how often does it happen? It seems really unfair that a popular chapter is penalized by the system.

ksu4me and DeltaBetaBaby, ladybug12, and Titchou

I saw this spread of results numbers (mainly via irishpipes' list) and I was dumbfounded / curious, too. However, I can be fairly content with probably never knowing for sure what happened and why..

[tcsparky]

Per The Greenbook.......A and B are allowed to extend further bids /COB to Quota.

Carnation.......I am remembering correctly, yes?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

Per The Greenbook.......A and B are allowed to extend further bids /COB to Quota.

Carnation.......I am remembering correctly, yes?

Yes, every chapter is entitled to take up to quota, even if it puts them above total. For example, total is 100. XYZ goes into FR with 80, and takes 30, but quota is 40. They now have 110 members, and they are allowed to COB another 10.

[Titchou]

It may be that A and B, assuming they had a lock on certain PNMs, elected to under invite to pref and it backfired on them. That has happened as well. But yes, ANY chapter that does not make quota can COB to quota. It is one of the Unanimous Agreements to which ALL NPC groups and CPHs must adhere. See the MOI (Green Book) for this quote:

"Each NPC fraternity chapter has the right to COB to reach quota or its total allowable chapter size during the regular school year as defined by the school calendar."

[gee_ess]

With all of the wackiness related to RFM, could it be possible that chapters A and B actually took quota but no quota additions which all went to chapters C and D?

[DubaiSis]

The other situation could be the RFM specialist set the numbers of the 2 top "producers" at continually tighter rates, and with each other as competitors on their girls' pref lists, that prime group of girls was split between 2 chapters. Or in other words, they couldn't pick up the other chapter's leftovers because there were none. The lower producing chapter would have a much longer flex list and would as a result have a much better chance at QAs.

I have been wondering if the chapters are being made to make too large of cuts through the process. Of course, if they made it a little looser, quotas could go up even further which is a scary thought at some schools.

But you'll probably never know what really happened, so I'd try to just get over it and move on.

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

The other situation could be the RFM specialist set the numbers of the 2 top "producers" at continually tighter rates, and with each other as competitors on their girls' pref lists, that prime group of girls was split between 2 chapters. Or in other words, they couldn't pick up the other chapter's leftovers because there were none. The lower producing chapter would have a much longer flex list and would as a result have a much better chance at QAs.

I have been wondering if the chapters are being made to make too large of cuts through the process. Of course, if they made it a little looser, quotas could go up even further which is a scary thought at some schools.

But you'll probably never know what really happened, so I'd try to just get over it and move on.

I think this is what has happened at Arkansas. Big cuts early then nominal ones made the rest of the week which result in those big pledge classes. I have been pushing for bigger cuts to also occur later in the week but not meeting quota would be disastrous!

[Titchou]

The formula is based on past performance. It isn't arbitrarily set. However, the poster stated what quota was. It may be that the two chapters limited their bids lists and the other two didn't. Since RFM tries to place everyone, it isn't surprising that the numbers range over so much. The ones left after A and B culled their lists were all given to C and D. Thus they set actual quota lower and placed all the extras. Makes perfect sense to me.

[ksu4me]

Thanks for the responses. I understand more now, and I am especially glad to be corrected on the COB misinformation.

I am figuring out this system is a whole lot more involved/complicated than I ever imagined. Like, do these "RFM specialists" travel around, or does each campus have its own? Do they control for chapters inviting back totally overlapping girls (ie ladybug's scenario of 3 chapters, same 100 pnms and quota of 40) or is it just based on total numbers? Is the formula based on last years' numbers, a few years' data, or just pnm rankings from the current parties that you just finished? I'm not really asking for answers--and they're probably buried in another thread somewhere--but the more I find out, the more questions I have. It's amazing how little most of us actives know about how the process actually works. (And I'm a senior and don't ever have to worry about it again!) You really have to trust the people running the show, and it's sometimes hard when you see stuff like this happen.

BTW, all the new member numbers I have heard are dead-on with what irishpipes has posted. The quota number she lists is what we were told. Also, A and B have new member pictures or lists on their blogs/websites that verify the size of their incoming classes.

Again, I am not in the know, but it sounds like A really cut too heavily early on and ended up with way too few girls at pref (like less than 2x where x=quota). I don't know if that was voluntary, but we have so many good girls go through that I can't imagine even an historically strong recruiting chapter making bigger cuts than they have to. If it was because of the RFM "formula", hopefully they'll make some adjustments in the future.

[33girl]

Basically the RFM specialists are kind of like your mom and dad giving you $1000 to spend for the year's school clothes and telling you that's it for the year - you won't get a penny more. They will, however, not influence your choices at all. If you want to blow the whole wad at the Jimmy Choo store and be wearing last year's shirts, that's your business.

Girls who have parents that do this learn to budget wisely and assess what will last the longest and give the most wear. They may make some really bad steps along the way, but that's part of what their parents are trying to teach them - a lesson that they would have never learned if the parents kept giving them money all the time.

There are too many chapters out there who I dare say overvalue their own popularity because for years and years they've had nothing but full parties. Finding out that not everyone rates you #1 is a good thing, in the long run. Many of those girls at your full parties may have only been there to give you the once-over and knew dang well they would not fit in at all.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

One of the topics I teach to college students is forecasting, and I always tell them that the first rule of forecasting is that forecasts are always wrong. RFM specialists are making their best guesses about return rates based on past years' data. If they were 100% correct all of the time, they wouldn't be RFM specialists, they'd be day traders.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

One of the topics I teach to college students is forecasting, and I always tell them that the first rule of forecasting is that forecasts are always wrong. RFM specialists are making their best guesses about return rates based on past years' data. If they were 100% correct all of the time, they wouldn't be RFM specialists, they'd be day traders.

"[T]hey'd be day traders," Mbwahahahahahah! (wiping away laugh tears)

[FSUZeta]

Isn't it the case that when quota additions come into play, they, QAs, would go first to chapters with lower memberships?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

Isn't it the case that when quota additions come into play, they, QAs, would go first to chapters with lower memberships?

I think from what people have said on here, that is recommended, but not required.