Can National Shut Down a Chapter Because of it's Racial Breakdown?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by gtdxeric

The more you know.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kansas City

If I selected and was initiated into a chapter/organization based on their ideals and then the national organization wanted to close the chapter because of these ideals, I think that I would want to re-examine my association with said chapter/organization. Perhaps the chapter/organization is not really what you thought it was or is changing in a direction to which you no longer agree. I personally would consider de-activation and look at other camups organizations to get involved in. Why waste your time with people and organizations that no longer represent who you are or who you want to be?

I think that in the case the OP laid out, the chapter does not agree with the national org, but if they tell the national org to go screw, then they're without a national affiliate - and not all campuses will allow a local group to stay on without national affiliation. Not to mention if this was a sorority, the women could definitely never join another NPC group.

I don't think deactivation of one member will solve the problem here, it's that the chapter believes the ideals entail one thing and the national HQ (or certain people at HQ) believe another.

Maybe I don't agree with what ABC HQ is doing, but on my campus, ABC means something that I am proud of. Why would I want to throw that away?

[Kansas City]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think that in the case the OP laid out, the chapter does not agree with the national org, but if they tell the national org to go screw, then they're without a national affiliate - and not all campuses will allow a local group to stay on without national affiliation. Not to mention if this was a sorority, the women could definitely never join another NPC group.

I don't think deactivation of one member will solve the problem here, it's that the chapter believes the ideals entail one thing and the national HQ (or certain people at HQ) believe another.

Maybe I don't agree with what ABC HQ is doing, but on my campus, ABC means something that I am proud of. Why would I want to throw that away?

I agree and did not intend to imply that I would join another Greek or NPC organization. I was thinking about other campus organizations (honor society, volunteer group, sports team, etc.) and my advise was what I would personally do. I would chalk the situation up to me personally making an error in judgment somewhere along the way. I would definitely still be friends with the people in the organization (no one can stop me from being friends with someone), I just would not personally want to be associated with a NATIONAL group whose ideals did not match my own. I'd rather be a proud part of another campus organization.

[33girl]

But there's a difference between the national group's ideals as written in the history, constitution and bylaws, and the people running the group.

"George W is an a-hole and doesn't understand the Constitution, but I am still proud to be an American."

Like that. I don't think there have been many people who've renounced their citizenship because they didn't like Bush (Clinton, FDR, etc etc etc).

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But there's a difference between the national group's ideals as written in the history, constitution and bylaws, and the people running the group.

"George W is an a-hole and doesn't understand the Constitution, but I am still proud to be an American."

Like that. I don't think there have been many people who've renounced their citizenship because they didn't like Bush (Clinton, FDR, etc etc etc).

I agree with this basic logic that also applies to GLOs.

Only short-sighted moronic idiots moved to Canada when Dubya was re-elected. There allegedly were a few.

[Kansas City]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But there's a difference between the national group's ideals as written in the history, constitution and bylaws, and the people running the group.

"George W is an a-hole and doesn't understand the Constitution, but I am still proud to be an American."

Like that. I don't think there have been many people who've renounced their citizenship because they didn't like Bush (Clinton, FDR, etc etc etc).

Agreed ... but (referring to the OP situation) somewhere in my college career I choose to belong to a local chapter because of their ideals. (Although I am a proud American, citizenship of birth is not a choice and I could, although unlikely, choose to move to Canada if Obama is elected. ) Perhaps the chapter did not represent National ideals well during recruitment? I'm just saying that I can love being around people from the AB chapter of XYZ without having to associate any longer with XYZ or the ideals of that national organization. Life is too short to be associated with a group that makes you unhappy and frankly, why would XYZ want to keep me around if I were unhappy or not participating anymore?

[Tom Earp]

A person joins a GLO for their Ideals.

They also first join a chapter for the members!


So, which is the most important reason?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kansas City

Perhaps the chapter did not represent National ideals well during recruitment? I'm just saying that I can love being around people from the AB chapter of XYZ without having to associate any longer with XYZ or the ideals of that national organization.

it's NOT the ideals that are faulty, it's the people running the show at HQ/on national council that are faulty.

I mean, (sorry to bring this up ladies) I doubt Z Phi B has anywhere in their ideals that it's a good idea to contest an election and put it out all over the internet.

And if it's a choice between putting up with some jackasses in office and keeping your charter, or surrendering it to "take a stand" and being homeless and chapterless, most college students will choose the latter.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

A person joins a GLO for their Ideals.

They also first join a chapter for the members!


So, which is the most important reason?

That depends if you're talking before or after Tom Earp was an Active.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

You are aware that there are some NIC fraternities founded as early as the late 1800s that never had a discriminatory clause, right?

And although I don't technically agree with AST[rest of username, sorry too lazy to check back], you do show a lot of negative bias towards NIC/NPC organizations in almost all your posts dealing with it.

Which I could care less about... but there is not denying you have a problem with, particularly, non-Whites joining NIC/NPC organizations.

Whether or not there are clauses in these organization is not the point I was making and missing it, totally.

I harbor no ill-will toward NIC/NPC as I speak to several members on a constant, consistent daily basis. That is YOUR perception, you are taking it too personally and CHOOSE to have that view of me, which is unfortunate because that is not who I am with what I do. And I can attempt to justify (LOL) my thoughts to you on this medium until I am "pink and green" (LOL ) in the face, but that is a prejudice on your part and you need to take ownership of projecting your opinions upon me...

As far as non-Caucasians joining NIC/NPC organizations, um no, I don't have a problem with that. If that is there thing, more power to them. What I have a problem with is someone who joins these organizations and then wonders why there are no other [insert your favorite ethnic/sex/race/etc here] and the debasement of NPHC organization we all have discussed ad nauseum here. I personally think that discussion is stupid, silly, juvenile and asinine. Then, the minute my Sorority is included in the discussion, my personal opinion is the thread must be squashed. Because really, we as members of GLO's have way too many other issues to deal with than why does AKA's wear pink vs. green on some days and don't talk to Delta Gamma Sorority, Inc. .

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Would you apply this to organizations that historically banned women from joining? If so, then that's A LOT of universities! Or is it different when it comes to sexism?

Just wondering.

I think that's an apples vs. oranges question and I cannot and frankly, don't care to comment beyond what do you do when said organization decide to go to a "tittie bar"? LOL...

[Chan815]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I harbor no ill-will toward NIC/NPC as I speak to several members on a constant, consistent daily basis. That is YOUR perception, you are taking it too personally and CHOOSE to have that view of me, which is unfortunate because that is not who I am with what I do.

Then can you explain this post to me? Because from what I inferred it seems that your trash-talking NPC/NIC GLO's...

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

General question overall: Why would someone WANT (meaning truly desire) to be a part of group that has historically had institutionalized racism and bigotry as a part of its chapters... I'd be scared to attend a picnic and BBQ... What kind of "games" would they play?

At least with an NPHC org, someone will be playing dominoes or Bid Whist or spades and there might be an egg toss or potato sack race. But nothing involving hurting other people simply because they are of a different creed, race, ethnic group, whatever... I mean, I truly dislike egg tosses because I always get the crashed egg... LOL...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Chan815

Then can you explain this post to me? Because from what I inferred it seems that your trash-talking NPC/NIC GLO's...

I don't understand the OP... Are there quotas to NIC/NPC for representation? like NIC/NPC has to have "affirmative action" programs--LOL. Rather than asking that question, I chose an inside joke that I guess DSTChaos got... Meaning that that kind of question can be searched on GC and it sounds silly to me.

Why would a kid who is from {insert your favorite group here} have a problem joining any NIC/NPC chapter on his/her respective campus if the chapter shows a favorable vote?

If that is the case, then with the example of wanting only "redheads" in the chapter, well, I can bleach my hair and naturally, I will look like "Bozo the Clown", so do I still get to join? LOL.

I think anyone's membership should NOT be based solely on looks. Not everyone is a supermodel or athlete. However, charisma and diplomacy are attributes that can be honed and developed. If that is the kind of membership you want walking into the door and hit the ground running, then I think transparency and full disclosure are in place and a fair expectation.

I was a former Graduate Advisor for my Sorority's undergraduate chapter and I have taught several undergraduate courses. I know how to best relay information to PNM in a tactful way to get the best results...

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Whether or not there are clauses in these organization is not the point I was making and missing it, totally.

That whole thing was brought up because you kept saying "why would someone want to join an organization that originally barred people like them?"

Maybe you're missing the point.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I harbor no ill-will toward NIC/NPC as I speak to several members on a constant, consistent daily basis. That is YOUR perception, you are taking it too personally and CHOOSE to have that view of me, which is unfortunate because that is not who I am with what I do. And I can attempt to justify (LOL) my thoughts to you on this medium until I am "pink and green" (LOL ) in the face, but that is a prejudice on your part and you need to take ownership of projecting your opinions upon me...

That's fine. I don't have a prejudice toward you, but my opinion stands.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

As far as non-Caucasians joining NIC/NPC organizations, um no, I don't have a problem with that. If that is there thing, more power to them.

Ok, if you say so lol.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

That whole thing was brought up because you kept saying "why would someone want to join an organization that originally barred people like them?"

Maybe you're missing the point.



That's fine. I don't have a prejudice toward you, but my opinion stands.



Ok, if you say so lol.

So your point is what, here? Let's wrap this up before I have to take my Vici..

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

So your point is what, here? Let's wrap this up before I have to take my Vici..

I was simply responding to what you had written.