Theta Chi at Duke Going Local

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by tallgreekalum

You are correct, but in all these cases, the original group remains as a local fraternity. Depending on the attitudes of alumni, some have continued to support the old chapter, some have supported the new group.

The Old Phi Delt at Virginia is also called "Phi Society" and the Sigma Nu Chapter is called "Sigma Society".

After posting yesterday, I realized that just because the inter/national is re-colonizing, it does not mean that a local group may also exist. So this morning, I checked both Sewanee's and Virginia's Greek Life websites and yep, both The Phi Society of 1883 (at Sewanee) and Phi Society (at Virginia) are recognized by the university (IFC). I also checked Vanderbilt's and came across this. (Note: I didn't find any reference to "Sigma Society" at any of the colleges.)

"This is a complete list [all are NIC, NPHC and FLA member fraternities] of all of the recognized fraternities at Vanderbilt University. As you meet students on campus and make your decision about joining a Greek organization, it is important that you consider membership only in the groups listed above. Both Sigma Nu and Phi Delta Theta will be recolonizing on our campus this year. It is important to understand that only representatives from those national organizations will be extending invitations for membership in the new group."

While no "locals" were listed on the Vanderbilt site, it does seem to imply that there *might* be unrecognized or underground "local" groups.

Now without university or Greek Life (IFC) support or recognition, and even with alumni support, how do these disaffiliated groups survive? Or perhaps another way to ask this might be "how well" do they survive? Especially when an "official" and recognized chapter of the fraternity (that the group disaffiliated from) is on campus? As an example, from the article posted at the start of the thread: "...unrecognized groups also cannot hold official events with recognized greek organizations." I don't think that helps with rush.

[SoCalGirl]

I don't think that "...unrecognized groups also cannot hold official events with recognized greek organizations" really prevents that much. When I was in school the Delta Sig chapter was not recognized by the campus. They still managed to post fliers, have good size pledge classes, and have exchanges with the sororities. They got back recognition during by senior year, I think, and everything continued as normal.

[tallgreekalum]

They often do have alumni support.

Originally Posted by TSteven

After posting yesterday, I realized that just because the inter/national is re-colonizing, it does not mean that a local group may also exist. So this morning, I checked both Sewanee's and Virginia's Greek Life websites and yep, both The Phi Society of 1883 (at Sewanee) and Phi Society (at Virginia) are recognized by the university (IFC). I also checked Vanderbilt's and came across this. (Note: I didn't find any reference to "Sigma Society" at any of the colleges.)

"This is a complete list [all are NIC, NPHC and FLA member fraternities] of all of the recognized fraternities at Vanderbilt University. As you meet students on campus and make your decision about joining a Greek organization, it is important that you consider membership only in the groups listed above. Both Sigma Nu and Phi Delta Theta will be recolonizing on our campus this year. It is important to understand that only representatives from those national organizations will be extending invitations for membership in the new group."

While no "locals" were listed on the Vanderbilt site, it does seem to imply that there *might* be unrecognized or underground "local" groups.

Now without university or Greek Life (IFC) support or recognition, and even with alumni support, how do these disaffiliated groups survive? Or perhaps another way to ask this might be "how well" do they survive? Especially when an "official" and recognized chapter of the fraternity (that the group disaffiliated from) is on campus? As an example, from the article posted at the start of the thread: "...unrecognized groups also cannot hold official events with recognized greek organizations." I don't think that helps with rush.

[Tom Earp]

It actually never ceases to amaze me when a Chapter thinks that they are bigger than the whole.

They feel that they are better than the total Fraternity?

They do not agree with the policys that are set forth not just by their National, but by the members who comprise the General Fraternity, their own Brothers.

Maybe a good analogy would be, being on an ocean liner or a row boat.

So a whoopie school like *Dook* is special, there is a bigger world out there for them to see.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I don't think that "...unrecognized groups also cannot hold official events with recognized greek organizations" really prevents that much. When I was in school the Delta Sig chapter was not recognized by the campus. They still managed to post fliers, have good size pledge classes, and have exchanges with the sororities. They got back recognition during by senior year, I think, and everything continued as normal.

I appreciate your reply. In your scenario, it sounds like an IFC/NIC chapter was on some sort of *campus* probation or suspension. They were able to pledge and have exchanges with sororities and they even "got back recognition" later. However, the issue is a disaffiliated group that is not recognized by the campus and is not affiliated with any IFC/NIC fraternity.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by tallgreekalum

They often do have alumni support.

I don't doubt that. But when a chapter of the IFC/NIC fraternity is also on campus, I would venture to guess that the alumni support might very well be diluted. Some will be loyal to the disaffiliated group, others to the IFC/NIC chapter, and others to both. Given the resources that the national can also pour into the chapter, it seems that the disaffiliated group might be perceived to be at a disadvantage.

Now in addition to alumni support, what are the advantages - real or perceived - in joining a disaffiliated group of ABC (The A Society) that is not recognized by the campus when there is an active ABC chapter - that is recognized by the campus - on said campus? And what are the disadvantages - real or perceived?

[LaneSig]

I don't know about Duke, but yes - schools can refuse to allow local groups to join the campus IFC. Many campus IFCs require that groups either belong to a national GLO, be a colony of a national GLO, or an interest group. No, not all campuses, but many.

[LaneSig]

Okay, am I hallucinating, or did I just reply to a post by MadMax that said "What can the campus do, kick them out?" (or in some such words.) And now that post is gone?

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

I don't know about Duke, but yes - schools can refuse to allow local groups to join the campus IFC. Many campus IFCs require that groups either belong to a national GLO, be a colony of a national GLO, or an interest group. No, not all campuses, but many.

The University of Kentucky has that policy. And this policy covers all "social" GLOs including, but not limited, to NPC members, NPHC members and IFC/NIC members.

Note: there are three social sororities on campus that are not part of any council or conference - Ceres, Gamma Gamma Chi and Phi Sigma Rho - but all have an inter/national board.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Okay, am I hallucinating, or did I just reply to a post by MadMax that said "What can the campus do, kick them out?" (or in some such words.) And now that post is gone?

I don't recall MadMax posting in this thread. Are you sure you just haven't started celebrating the weekend a little early this week?

[exlurker]

The October 19 Duke Chronicle has an editorial supporting the option of local fraternities:

http://www.dukechronicle.com/media/s...echronicle.com

[Tom Earp]

Interesting read, but is there not already an ADPhi organization?

If they had no house, that could also be a problem for them.

Now, it seems they may have a bigger problem being a very small fish in the biggr pond.

If the Alumni do not back them, they better have deep pockets to pay for insurance. If they do not have insurance then the local members will be responsible for any R M problems.

A very deep decission to be and has been made!

Duke is not the only School with a good reputation are they?

Look around.

[TSteven]

Good article.

To be clear, I understand and support members of a chapter (even the whole chapter) that might disaffiliate from their inter/national fraternity because they no longer feel "connected" to it. Hell, Sigma Chi Fraternity was founded after six members of Delta Kappa Epsilon's Miami chapter resigned. I do want to add that Sigma Chi Fraternity was founded with the concept of being a national fraternity and not a "rouge" chapter of Deke at Miami. And no, I don't feel that any disaffiliated group needs to do that (i.e. be national).

However, just because a group does not want to abide by campus rules, they should not be given a free pass. They can work to change the campus culture. And if the campus decides to change their rules, then great. But if not, then the group needs to either adapt or stay off campus. By "off campus" I mean not recognized nor have any of the rights and privileges afforded recognized campus groups.


I am still curious what the situation is like where there is both a disaffiliated group and the chapter and both are recognized by the campus.

[g41965]

Epsilon Theta is a local fraternity at MIT, it was a Sigma Nu Chapter from 1922-1977, Sigma Nu recolonized at MIT in the late 1990's lets get KT Snake or some other active Sigma Nu poster's take on this, what say you on the situation at MIT does the former chapter hurt the new chapter

[greekalum]

Epsilon Theta is also now a co-ed organization that bears little to no resemblance to a traditional men's fraternity chapter. I don't think they impact each other at all- they draw from completely different pools of students.

(ETA- is the MIT Sigma Nu house the old Fiji house?)