Kids at nice restaurants

[AXO Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

Perhaps background provides some of the difference in my feelings about wine and kids. My parents didn't drink at all, so we never had wine in the house, nor was it ever ordered if we went out.

Unless, of course, one is counting "the house wine of the South" -- sweet iced tea.

And EE-BO, I think you're exactly right that "When alcohol is treated as some dark secret for adults only, it is easier to get in trouble once you go off to college."

Same for us - my parents don't drink & we never had wine or other alcohol in the house. I am 33 (the shame) and I don't like wine (even more shame). I may order a mixed drink twice a year (if that) but mostly I don't drink b/c a) I am a lightweight; and b) I can't afford it! LOL!

I much prefer Southern wine as described

I agree that it shouldn't be kept dark & secretive - but I can't imagine giving Eli wine at 10. Maybe some grape juice served in a wine glass instead

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by blueangel

However, recent studies are showing that alcohol can cause possibly irreversable damage to a developing child's brain. Whether a glass here and there can do harm, I don't know. Personally though, I wouldn't chance it.

I think I'd still rather chance slight irreversible damage, and teach them how to drink responsibly, then have them turn out like my brother-in-law, who would embarrass a fish with the amount he drinks EVERY NIGHT. Yes, I know that's an extreme case, but being that my husband's biological father died of alcoholism, I think it's important to teach my kids responsibility when it comes to alcohol. My husband, knowing that his father (and now, apparently, his brother) was an alcoholic, is VERY careful about how much he drinks and how often.

[greekalum]

I don't know, I think if your family runs to alcoholism it's best to teach your children to just avoid. Teenage drinking is being shown more and more to be especially dangerous, and add a genetic predisposition to "My mom let me drink wine with dinner starting at age 10" and I think you're just giving your child a head start.

As for kids dining out, I think it is entirely appropriate once your child has mastered proper manners- that age probably varies from child to child.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by greekalum

I don't know, I think if your family runs to alcoholism it's best to teach your children to just avoid.

That's exactly what I DON'T want to do...make it seem like the forbidden fruit. That WILL come back to bite. You tell a teenager not to do something, and they're GOING to do it.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

That's exactly what I DON'T want to do...make it seem like the forbidden fruit. That WILL come back to bite. You tell a teenager not to do something, and they're GOING to do it.

So your kid is 'smart' enough to understand that something that's given to them in moderation doesn't need to be abused (or that moderation is better), even when genetic predisposition works pretty hard to overcome this ability to be moderate, but not smart enough to understand the dangers of hereditary alcoholism and the way to avoid the problems?

Makes sense.

[Drolefille]

Even hereditary alcoholism is not an absolute. Being predisposed to it doesn't mean that you can't avoid becoming addicted.

Not saying what the best idea is here, if a parent is an alcoholic it's probably better to have NO alcohol around, not even to teach the kid.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

So your kid is 'smart' enough to understand that something that's given to them in moderation doesn't need to be abused (or that moderation is better), even when genetic predisposition works pretty hard to overcome this ability to be moderate, but not smart enough to understand the dangers of hereditary alcoholism and the way to avoid the problems?

Makes sense.

As Drolefille said, hereditary alcoholism is not absolute. As I said before, my husband has an alcoholic brother, and a father that died of alcoholism, and he manages moderation. I am not naieve enough to think that my daughter is never going to drink because she knows that she is predisposed to alcoholism. Honestly, would that have stopped you from drinking when you went to college? 18 year olds have the "invincible, nothing can happen to me" attitude, and ESPECIALLY if alcohol was the "forbidden fruit" are going to drink when they get to college. I'd rather let my daughter try alcohol at home, and find out AT HOME that she can't handle alcohol, then let her go to college and find out in the emergency room with alcohol poisoning, that she can't handle alcohol.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

As Drolefille said, hereditary alcoholism is not absolute. As I said before, my husband has an alcoholic brother, and a father that died of alcoholism, and he manages moderation. I am not naieve enough to think that my daughter is never going to drink because she knows that she is predisposed to alcoholism. Honestly, would that have stopped you from drinking when you went to college? 18 year olds have the "invincible, nothing can happen to me" attitude, and ESPECIALLY if alcohol was the "forbidden fruit" are going to drink when they get to college. I'd rather let my daughter try alcohol at home, and find out AT HOME that she can't handle alcohol, then let her go to college and find out in the emergency room with alcohol poisoning, that she can't handle alcohol.

I don't dispute that all of these things are possibilities - I'm disputing your repeated desire to speak in absolutes, even when faced with real-life statistical evidence and potentially contrary 'absolutes' (or options).

[honeychile]

Wow, I'm really sorry to have hijacked this thread! Seriously, at ten, I'm talking about watered down wine, just enough wine to give the water some color and almost more to learn to use a wine glass properly! In fact, the first time I ever got a "buzz" was from taking Communion while visiting an Episcopal Church!

EE-Bo's post was the best description of my thoughts. Thank you for fleshing out the obvious.

[tunatartare]

I'm from a Russian family. I grew up with wine or vodka always being on the dinner table. In our community, it's perfectly normal to start teaching kids as early as 9 or 10 to drink.

[AGDee]

I grew up drinking wine at Sunday dinner at my Italian grandparent's house. It was homemade and we called it Dago Red. It wasn't a big deal. It was a big deal when we got to help stomp the grapes (after Nana oversaw us washing our feet very well!). We had a blast.

It didn't seem to change anything about how any of us viewed alcohol. I have a couple cousins who are alcoholics, some who went wild with it for a while (when college aged) and calmed down, and some who just don't drink (for whatever reason).

I think it's more complex than some are making it. There are children of alcoholics who don't want it around them ever because of the things they experienced. There are others who learn to turn to alcohol. There are no absoluts (pun intended)

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I grew up drinking wine at Sunday dinner at my Italian grandparent's house. It was homemade and we called it Dago Red. It wasn't a big deal. It was a big deal when we got to help stomp the grapes (after Nana oversaw us washing our feet very well!). We had a blast.

It didn't seem to change anything about how any of us viewed alcohol. I have a couple cousins who are alcoholics, some who went wild with it for a while (when college aged) and calmed down, and some who just don't drink (for whatever reason).

I think it's more complex than some are making it. There are children of alcoholics who don't want it around them ever because of the things they experienced. There are others who learn to turn to alcohol. There are no absoluts (pun intended)

I think alot of "Americans" (as what my parents call non-ethnic families) don't understand that in cultures like ours, at least wine is always present in the home. Us Italian children drank it when we were younger (not me, I hate wine). My parents never yelled at me when I'd drink alcohol at weddings and such, and I think that had something to do with me not going overboard in college. I've seen children of strict parents go WAY overboard.

Back to the topic... my family's restaurant isn't the nicest restaurant around, but it is a relatively quiet, somewhat nice one. There are kids constantly in there and most of them behave well, maybe a little crying. Then there are parents who let their kids walk around the restaurant and I just wana kill them. There were these 2 maybe like 8-10 year olds rolling around on their "skate shoes" in our lobby. There was no one in the lobby, but if they would have fallen it could be our liability. Did the parents say anything to them? No. I had to.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

There were these 2 maybe like 8-10 year olds rolling around on their "skate shoes" in our lobby. There was no one in the lobby, but if they would have fallen it could be our liability. Did the parents say anything to them? No. I had to.

UGH! Those skate shoes!!! I can't tell you how many kids have banged into me at the grocery store sliding around at top speed from isle to isle. The parents think it's just peachy that little junior is using the food store as a skating rink. Amazing.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by KLPDaisy

I'm from a Russian family. I grew up with wine or vodka always being on the dinner table. In our community, it's perfectly normal to start teaching kids as early as 9 or 10 to drink.

Yeah well in your community people often die from home brewed vodka and binge drinking is encouraged.

If you were to show up at a really nice restaurant, you don't see kids, let alone misbehaving kids. Perhaps some of you should consider eating at better places instead of the macaroni grill, houston's, or whatever chain steakhouse floats your boat that night or maybe accept the fact that you get what you pay for.

-Rudey

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

We were served wine too- small sips with any formal dinners at home, and sometimes a touch at the restaurant.

I think it is good for kids to see the proper context of alcohol with a meal or in a social setting. When alcohol is treated as some dark secret for adults only, it is easier to get in trouble once you go off to college.

exactly...or to inspire you to raid the liquor cabinent