Wacky Article about Underground LCA chapter

[docroc67]

Brothers,

This is a very interesting and important thread. Believe it or not, college Greek organizations have had similiar problems throughout their history. Almost from the beginning, with the creation of the Flat Hat Society, fraternities have been involved in hazing, binge drinking, sexual escapades, and so forth. The actors change, the drug of choice changes, but high risk behavior is characteristic of many college students. When you couple high risk behavior with "secrecy" and the "bond" of Brotherhood you have a formula for serious trouble. University Presidents and faculties have fought us from the beginning of our organizations because of this dangerous mix of risky behavior and silence.

In the past, "outlaw" organizations like Delta Beta Delta, Kappa Beta Phi, and Theta Nu Epsilon were little more than drinking clubs composed of young men who didn't care for anyone in authority. These renegade societies were part of the reason that the North American Interfraternity Conference (NIC), then known as the National Inerfraternity Council, was founded about 100 years ago. They saw these irresponsible organizations, and the lack of clear chapter standards, as a threat to the existence of college fraternities.

In order to make this reform, they allied together and with University leaders throughout the country to rid their campuses of these groups. Many of the "rogue" groups continued after their national organizations disbanded or were absorbed by other fraternities. They continued operations as "sub rosa" campus groups. In the early years, most of the major fraternities agreed with university officials to withdraw recognition and support of a chapter when they were no longer recognized by the institution. This practice continues today with the NIC. Some groups like DEKE go their own way on this issue, a few groups like Phi Delta Theta have left the NIC, but almost all NIC members subscribe to this practice of not recognizing chapters that are not recognized by the university or college in question.

I think an examinination of the NIC position would be an interesting subject for discussion. If you want more information on the NIC you can find it here: www.nicindy.org

My position on this subject is pretty direct: if a Zeta is not recognized by IHQ it is not part of our fraternity. I understand the fact that some of these men could be very good Brothers. The same could be said of some of the men in our poorest Zetas. A few good men do not legitmize a group that is violating our Constitution and Code. It may be a "romantic" notion that they are independent, free, self-determing, etc. In my mind, they need to either shut down or petition to be a colony. We took oaths to abide by our Fraternity's laws. I have tried very hard to do this myself for over forty years. I simply don't trust or respect men who violate oaths, don't respect our organization, and pretend to be Lambda Chis. They aren't....

Yours in ZAX,

Mike "I am Drawing a Line on This One," Raymond
Zeta-Upsilon Zeta
1964

[GammaZeta]

Good post and I agree with you in some points. However, I think that LXA's policy needs to be looked at. Maybe HQ could perhaps offer some amnesty program, where LXA underground fraternities could be granted a temporary colony status for like 6 months, then be evaluated, and then be allowed to go through the process of becoming a chapter. I think the underground fraternities need to evaluate if they really, truly want to become a LXA chapter given the opportunity, and the HQ needs to realize that there are some brothers in underground fraternities that would make great brothers and really want to become an official LXA. I think that there needs to be a meeting point in the center from both sides.

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by GammaZeta
Good post and I agree with you in some points. However, I think that LXA's policy needs to be looked at. Maybe HQ could perhaps offer some amnesty program, where LXA underground fraternities could be granted a temporary colony status for like 6 months, then be evaluated, and then be allowed to go through the process of becoming a chapter. I think the underground fraternities need to evaluate if they really, truly want to become a LXA chapter given the opportunity, and the HQ needs to realize that there are some brothers in underground fraternities that would make great brothers and really want to become an official LXA. I think that there needs to be a meeting point in the center from both sides.

The good news, is that this current GHZ is just the group that would consider it, if it was brought to their attention. Past GHZ's wouldnt DARE consider it, as it would seem like they would lose face. Tats whay this GHZ rocks. They listen, and work hard at being responsive.

[JoinerLxa]

There is (or was) a supposed "underground LXA chapter" at
Anderson University, near Indianapolis (between Indy and
Muncie, Ball State).

AU is a small, conservative church-related school and officially
doesn't
allow fraternities. However they allow "service/social" orgs.
that for all practical purposes function as locals. Some have
been active 40 years or more.

Originally these groups had non-greek-letter names, like
Dativus, Eniteo, Agathos, etc. But in the early 80's they all
adopted greek-letter names as well (they still use both).

One of the older groups, called Sachem, supposedly linked
up with the LXA chapter at Ball State, and the BSU chapter
supposedly "recognized Sachem as an underground chapter"

For the past 2 decades they've been telling their rushees
that they are an "official" underground chapter of LXA.

I joined the faculty at AU in 1994, and became interested in
the group, seeing all the LXA letters on hats and jerseys.
Eventually I "infiltrated" the group and discovered they know
absolutely nothing about the "real" LXA....they couldn't
even tell me what "Per Crucem Crescens" or "Vir Quisque Vir"
meant....obviously the BSU chapter hadn't initiated them.
But they used the CoA anyway....just thought the design
was neat.

I contacted HQ and found out they had sent a "cease and
desist" letter to the group around 1990. It did no good, and
HQ never pressed it.

But the point is, if HQ doesn't "legally try" to stop these
groups, we could loose our copyright on the name, CoA,
etc. If an org or business owns a copyright and doesn't
"aggressively defend" it, the copyright can be legally lost.

I left AU in 2001, and at that time Sachem was no longer
recognized by the university....they violated too many rules.
But they continuted to operate, and like many unrecognized
groups, found that they liked it better without the "hassle"
of doing everything a recognized group has to do. Not
sure if they're still operating or not. They were bascially
the "football team fraternity", and since AU still has a
football team, they probably still have Sachem/"LXA" in
some form.

There are alot of advantages to being an unrecognized
group, from the perspective of a college student anyway.
No univ or national rules, no national dues, just do your
own thing. Of course the danger resides in the risk, but
that doesn't seem to deter them.

With the way some schools are trying to "stamp out" and/or
"tightly control" legitimate groups, it wouldn't surprise me
to see more of these unrecognized groups appear.

my 2 cc

[Ottor 246]

Originally posted by JoinerLxa

But the point is, if HQ doesn't "legally try" to stop these
groups, we could loose our copyright on the name, CoA,
etc. If an org or business owns a copyright and doesn't
"aggressively defend" it, the copyright can be legally lost.

Not only that...when (not if) these guys screw up and do something that draws public scrutiny, LAMBDA CHI ALPHA will be splattered all over the front pages of the newspapers. Then, the next day, after the damage is done and they receive a call from IHQ setting the record straight, they will run an correction at the bottom of page B-15.

[GammaZeta]

Don't worry, we're not going to lose our letters or COA because of these groups. Don't be so paranoid.

There is not some underground chapter that has been saving 10's of thousands of dollars to hire an attorney to try to take away our copyrights. Do you really think some college student is going to spend ALOT of money and time trying to get legal usage of our letters?

To the general public, all greek frats are the same. No one would be able to distinguish between a LXA, PKE, PBK, and so on just reading it in the paper. And if you do know the difference, then you are probably smart enough to know there is more to the story and that LXA doesn't exist on said campus.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by GammaZeta
Don't worry, we're not going to lose our letters or COA because of these groups. Don't be so paranoid.

There is not some underground chapter that has been saving 10's of thousands of dollars to hire an attorney to try to take away our copyrights. Do you really think some college student is going to spend ALOT of money and time trying to get legal usage of our letters?

To the general public, all greek frats are the same. No one would be able to distinguish between a LXA, PKE, PBK, and so on just reading it in the paper. And if you do know the difference, then you are probably smart enough to know there is more to the story and that LXA doesn't exist on said campus.

GammaZeta, while what you say might be true, then why hold our ideals higher than most?

Oh yes, there are enough people who can distinguish as so much has been written about GLOs recently. But, whether or not, it still comes down to Greeks no matter who it is. It stiil makes us look bad!

lifesaver, you made a very good point about the New or Current GHZ. There are it seems to be more than have been stated. So then So Called chapters such as James Madison, and Shippensburg, why not approach them and try to work with them, or come down on them and get everything settled.

But one wonders, if that happens how much retro training would have to be done to get up to standards?

[Tom Earp]

According to someone in IHQ, We do not have a Statement Policy on handling Underground Chapters who profess to be still LXA.

This is sad for those new young men who beleive that they are joining LXA.

[JoinerLxa]

I would NOT expect any of the underground groups to try and
"take away" our copyright.

But according to the law, if you do not "aggressively defend"
your copyright, you can loose it in a suit involving another
case.

I learned this by reading a story about Walt Disney. Disney
sued a small child care facility because they painted images
of Mickey Mouse and Goofy on the walls of their playroom.
They did this without permission.

Disney sued...not because they are a bunch of "meanies",
but to prove they are "aggressively defending" their
copyright. Disney execs really didn't care if a small child
care center had those paintings.

BUT, if some manufacturer started making millions of dollars
selling "cheap" Mickey Mouse watches (breaking Disney's
copyright), then Disney sued for copyright enfringement,
the copy-cat could point to "numerous occassions when
Disney did not defend their copyright" and a court could
decide that Disney had in-effect surrendered their copyright
because they had not been defending it in other cases.

So its not a matter of concern that an underground would
try and legally take away our copyrights. The concern is
if some other group (a company selling LXA stuff, or
even an organization of underground LXA chapters)
which we WOULD want to legally prevent from using
our stuff comes along, and we sue, they can say
"Hey, everybody else uses LXA-copyrighted stuff
illegally, and they never say anything"....then the court
might say "you're right...LXA doesn't defend its copyright,
so in effect they've given it up."

Screwy how courts work sometimes.

[LXAAlum]

You're right...you either aggressively defend, or you lose.

Just ask my neighbors - there is a legal issue surrounding property rights that parallels this issue, known as adverse possession, meaning, if you use land without permission for a long enough period of time (18 years in Colorado, differs in other states), the property becomes yours automatically.

That's what we did with our neighbors who tried unsuccessfully to move a fence 8 feet into our back yard, since the original property lines in 1956 showed it to be where they wanted the fence. But, 18 years had LONG since passed since the line was moved. We didn't even know about the change in property lines, but, in the long run, it didn't matter. None of the owners of our neighbors property had ever asserted ownership of the 8 foot strip, therefore, the property became ours.

It's the same issue with copyright stuff - though that doesn't bother me as much as what might happen with an underground chapter that casts a bad light on all of LXA. Should an underground chapter be accused of hazing or other criminal activity, and the media pick up the story, all you will see on the news is LXA - not "an underground chapter" of LXA - just LXA - our reputation will be trashed by a group not legally attached to us, but the damage WILL be done.

[JonoBN41]

It's true about aggressively defending propery rights and copyrights. When I was a kid our 40 acre nursery ran between two highways and we had numerous dirt roads within that went past our house, barns, garden center, chicken coop, stables, help's quarters, pig pen, etc. We had to block them off for one day each year so that they wouldn't be considered public roads. Sounds silly, but I still remember my father doing that every year. He used barrels and lengths of 4" alumnium irrigation pipe.

ZAX,
Jono

[GammaZeta]

There is a difference between land takings, real estate law, intellectual information and copyrights. Those examples cannot be used in this case seeing that they are based on state, not federal law. Also patent and copyright law is a very specific area of law which has strict guidelines, which is why those lawyers in that area of expertise make more in charging for one hour than most of us do all week. You simply cannot compare those examples to copyright law, you can only compare other cases involving copyright law to our case.

If you really want to be concerned about LXA and copyrights, I would be MUCH more afraid of the fact that many of LXA items, products and publications have incorrect or no copyright notice, which is much more dangerous than someone stealing it by our not "defending" it.

The Disney example is a little better, however, it still would not hold up in comparison to this case.

Simply buying a LXA shirt and saying you are a LXA is not a copyright infringement. If I wanted to I could get 20 guys together to wear LXA shirts and call ourselves a club there would be nothing LXA could do about.

The real path to argue would be the following: That by using the name LXA, the underground chapters were able to profit from the use of LXA and it's copyrights by saying they were associated with the national fraternity. Then we could sue for damages.

I did a quick LexisNexis and Westlaw search on copyright law and could not find anything that stated the terms "aggressively defend" in relation to losing a copyright in either statutory or common law. Maybe one of you gentleman could point me to a more specific case or section of copyright law so I could further research this. I think alot of you may be a little misguided by the actual intent of it.

In the end, it all depends on what you want accomplished. Do you want HQ to spend tens of thousands upon thousands of dollars on a decent copyright attorney to sue underground chapters for infringement? Or would you like to go about it in a different way. Perhaps a 6-12 monthy probation period to evaluate them becoming a full fledged chapter if they wanted to?

[docroc67]

Brothers,

There is another active thread that relates to this topic. Check out
"Greek Organizations File Joint Litigation to Protect Trade Mark Rights;" it can be found in "General Forum>Greek Life.

Yours in ZAX,

Mike Raymond, ZUZ

[GammaZeta]

That's good. People should not be making a PROFIT on copyrighted materials. I've never purchased anything from that Greek101 place before, but I have heard some things.

[Tom Earp]

Copy Rights of real property or symbols is easy to follow the trail, and solve a problem, but the Underground Groups is something entirely different isnt it?

James Madison and SRU being two that come to mind.

Now, with there being no policy statement, where does that leave them and the young men who join these groups.

I beleive someone made a comment, if they are strong groups and would be equitable with said school, why not look into working with them and bringing them back into the fold of LXA?