Ongoing Chico State Pledge Death Situation...

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

I believe that this is true, but fraternities (in general) have the parties to GET girls to come. I don't really want to get into that whole issue any more than that...but I do want to say that NPC sororities at Chico have a policy that if alcohol is served during a social at the fraternity house (not a 3rd party vendor) then the social is called and the girls usually leave. I don't personally believe we have socials at fraternity houses BECAUSE its ok to drink there (cuz we don't) but that its because the houses tend to be bigger and the guys who live there are more laid back when it comes to having events in the house than say some sorority in-house girls would.

Not saying that all of this isn't gender biased. It is. I don't think its fair to the guys that if a social/party is at their fraternity house and some girl waltzes in with a BAC of .4 and either gets sent to the hospital or dies and that group gets blamed (assuming she drank elsewhere). That totally sucks.

The only point i tried to make before was that most fraternity hazing practices have nothing to do with the sororities. At least not in my experience.

[DeltAlum]

Last school year one or two sororities were charged with hazing at the University of Colorado at Boulder. Those events took place at fraternity houses.

It may not be, probably isn't, the norm, but it does happen.

The real problems come in a couple of areas. Physical damage done to the houses by visiting sorority women, and liability claims for visitors being injured on the property -- like falls down steps, etc. Almost all falls at fraternity houses are alcohol related.

In theory, that couldn't happen at a sorority house because of the (wink, wink) dry housing rules.

So, I don't think it is totally wrong to say that (some) sororities take advantage of the looser rules governing fraternities. Clearly, not always, but enough so that there was an article about it in one of the Risk-Management newsletters I received.

[Tom Earp]

Is it Guys being plyed with the Female prowess to get Guys to do things for them?

If some wish to point out that Lets Kick all Male GLOs off of Campus, then what does that leave the Soros to do? Dont say go raid the Dorms for Male comanionship and run outs or parties.

Oh, maybe raid the Jock Dorms, and then what?

It is a two way street for Greeks. We have more on the ball if sanity prevails than Independents. Socially that is. It just has to be used with some sense.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
So, I don't think it is totally wrong to say that (some) sororities take advantage of the looser rules governing fraternities. Clearly, not always, but enough so that there was an article about it in one of the Risk-Management newsletters I received.

AlphaPhiBubbles - this is not directed toward you, your chapter, or Chico State specifically. Just replying from a fraternity point of view with what may (may) be coming down the line - i.e. mixers/socials etc. - due to what, as DeltAlum wrote, "(some) sororities [taking] advantage of the looser rules governing fraternities."

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
I believe that this is true, but fraternities (in general) have the parties to GET girls to come.

True. And that won't change. But what very well may change is that instead of inviting over a whole sorority chapter for a mixer, the fraternity will find it just as easy to have a guest list and invite individual women. Thus, the sorority chapters that do not step up and take joint responsibility for a mixer, may very well be left out of social events that take place on the fraternity's propriety or at a third party vendor. The fraternity, on the other hand, who is use to taking responsibility - as it were - will continue to invite - and get - woman to come to their parties. Greek and independent alike.

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
NPC sororities at Chico have a policy that if alcohol is served during a social at the fraternity house (not a 3rd party vendor) then the social is called and the girls usually leave.

And as you noted, "the girls usually leave". What about those who do not leave? Having a sorority show up a mixer saying "We didn't know that alcohol would be present..." (wink wink) isn't going to cut it anymore. The issue isn't just if there is a third party vendor but joint responsibility between fraternities and sororities. Greeks can and do still get trashed at both third party vendor and other events.

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
I don't personally believe we have socials at fraternity houses BECAUSE its ok to drink there (cuz we don't) but that its because the houses tend to be bigger and the guys who live there are more laid back when it comes to having events in the house than say some sorority in-house girls would.

Sure, fraternity houses tend to be larger and able to support both chapters participating in the mixer. Again, this is why fraternities are looking to have mixers - with or without third party vendors - with sororities who will step up with joint responsibility. For the very reason that it is on the fraternity's property. Otherwise, they will move to a guest list. May mean less risk with just as much fun.

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
Not saying that all of this isn't gender biased. It is. I don't think its fair to the guys that if a social/party is at their fraternity house and some girl waltzes in with a BAC of .4 and either gets sent to the hospital or dies and that group gets blamed (assuming she drank elsewhere). That totally sucks.

Which is why having the sorority sign on for parties taking place at the fraternity chapter house may very well be the norm down the line. Fraternities are quick to be blamed for the drinking issues of women when often the women do their drinking else where, yet their passing out at the fraternity.

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles
The only point i tried to make before was that most fraternity hazing practices have nothing to do with the sororities. At least not in my experience.

Agree. But you did ask "...why should we [sororities] suffer because of the guys??" Which is why the lengthy replies.


Alcohol abuse is a risk management issue whether it's involved with hazing or at a social mixer. Which is why sororities need to support fraternities in trying to curb alcohol abuse. And if it isn't addressed, then maybe the fraternities will very well be gone. And frankly, I would venture to guess that without IFC fraternities, membership in NPC sororities would decrease dramatically. A key social aspect of being Greek - interaction with fraternities - would be zero. No paring up at Homecoming; no serenading by fraternities; limited Greek Week games/events; no fraternity hosted events such as Derby Day, Watermelon Bust etc. And no socials.

In any case, just as the NPC GLOs pushed to keep alcohol out of sorority houses etc., fraternities are looking at the risks associated with supporting the sororities' drinking habits. (Along with other alcohol related issues.) Frankly, I am sure that many fraternities would hope to continue to host socials. As such, one possible solution is having sororities take responsibility for social events as well - regardless if alcohol is served - so that the fraternity is not blamed when a sorority women shows up at a mixer trashed. As can be the case now.

And a reduction in alcohol abuse may hopefully translate to a reduction in and ending of hazing as well.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Last school year one or two sororities were charged with hazing at the University of Colorado at Boulder. Those events took place at fraternity houses.

It may not be, probably isn't, the norm, but it does happen.

To be clear...i was only talking about my school. I cannot say what happens elsewhere.

TSteven - i appreciate your post and didn't feel attacked...just so you know I think you made a lot of really good points.