Abortion... please don't flame!

[bethany1982]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Nevermind I'll put it back up!

I always felt like I was pro-choice for two reasons... rape and incest. But then something happened to my friend's aunt.

She became pregnant, but there were major complications. If she carried the baby to term, then she could have died during labor, the baby could have died, or both coudl have died. It was an extremely high risk pregnancy. She ended up terminating the pregnancy. She is a great person, from a good family with great morals, but it was possibly the best choice.

How do you feel about abortion in cases of life or death?

Please only respond if you're going to respond with a mature, helpful opinion. Please do not respond with "Abortion is bad no matter what". I guess this thread is more for those who are Pro-Choice.

To me, abortion in a case like this is equivalent to self-defense.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00


How do you feel about abortion in cases of life or death?

Me personally, I would give my life so that my baby would live.

A long time ago, I use to think that abortion was ok in cases of rape until I met two important people in my life that were both conceived via that way. In one case, my friend's mother was raped by a strange man (they never found him) at the age of 16. Her mother kept the baby, raised her, and now she is a productive member of society (she's married and now is an Evangelist) doing great things to help other women.

In the other case, my boyfriend's mother was raped by someone she knew. His mother gave him up for adoption and he was fortunate enough to be raise by a loving family and is a productive member of society.

So in short, in cases of rape, I don't think that abortion should be an option, although I do believe that there should be services availible (counseling, foster families to help care for those women who are kicked out of their homes, adoption services, etc.) to women so that they can safely carry the baby to term.

So I am a little confused about this, if in 1995, at least 47% of the women are aged 25 or older that are selecting abortion, then why are we having issues with teenagers?

AKA_Monet: You are providing some interesting points to ponder.

[DZHBrown]

Originally posted by Dionysus
Correct me if I'm wrong, in Christianity the belief is once a human grasps the difference between right and wrong...and the person chooses to do wrong, then s/he will go to hell when they die if they haven't been "saved". At that stage of life, one cannot grasp the difference between right and wrong, nor grasp that Jesus died for their sins. The baby will automatically go to heaven, but with the mom it is questionable, depending on her beliefs and how she lived her life.

This is the belief, right? If it is, isn't it more appropiate to try to save the mother's life before the baby's, giving the mother a second chance to "come clean"?

I definitely agree that the baby would automatically go to Heaven. However, I don't think that's really the issue when it comes to abortion. Maybe the mother has lived a very moral and Christian lifestyle and doesn't need a second chance.

[IheartMATT806]

I think that under certain circumstances should abortion be considered. Women should always have the oppurtunity to do so but only if it is early in the pregancy and only once. I think that people who wait untill the last minute to abort a child is horrible. Abortion should only be offered if early in the pregancy. People who use abortion as means of birth control should also only be given one chance. Abortion is not a form of birth control and should not be used with this in mind.

Keep abortion legal...make numberous abortions illegal.

[MTSUGURL]

Originally posted by Dionysus
Correct me if I'm wrong, in Christianity the belief is once a human grasps the difference between right and wrong...and the person chooses to do wrong, then s/he will go to hell when they die if they haven't been "saved". At that stage of life, one cannot grasp the difference between right and wrong, nor grasp that Jesus died for their sins. The baby will automatically go to heaven, but with the mom it is questionable, depending on her beliefs and how she lived her life.

This is the belief, right? If it is, isn't it more appropiate to try to save the mother's life before the baby's, giving the mother a second chance to "come clean"?

Encourage the woman to have an abortion (which I as a Christian consider a sin), rather than leave it in God's hands as to whether she or the baby lives, on the offchance that she might "get saved" afterwards? I wouldn't say this falls in with Christian beliefs. You better believe if I had a friend in this situation, I would encourage and pray for her (and with her if given the opportunity), but I would encourage her to rely on God to save her and her baby - not a surgical procedure that destroys the baby. Doctors are sometimes wrong, and miracles happen. I hope that if I am EVER in this situation myself that God gives me the strength to do what I say I will so - be willing to sacrifice myself for my baby.

Oh, by the way - I'm adopted. My mother was poor, married to a man that never came home, and 19 when she had me. She wasn't ready to be a mother, wasn't financially able to be a mother, but she trusted God and did the best she could. When she remarried he adopted me, and she made it through all the tough times she had as a young divorced mother. (While in community college and working a part-time job.)

My belief is situations other than life threatening, rape and incest is this: You make your choices, you live with your consequences and do the best you can. I know several families who have adopted children, not just babies, and my family takes in teenagers. If you don't ever want children, fine - but think about that and practice birth control AHEAD of time.

Wow - that was a novel.

[PM_Mama00]

But what if you're already practicing birth control and it's an accident?

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
But what if you're already practicing birth control and it's an accident?

I just had a whole thing written down and my stupid computer erased it

Anyway, what I basically had said before was that there are so many "what if?" questions you can ask regarding this issue. We all have our opinions and and I don't think we're right and I don't think we're wrong. It's one of those issues that can and will be debated till the end of time.

Several have mentioned stories about friends and family and even themselves being adopted. I have a cousin that is adopted. I love her with all my heart. She's smart, sweet, funny, and an all around beautiful girl.
My aunt had several miscarriages and thought she would never be able to have children of her own (although after she adopted she had 2 children of her own). Now, what if the birth mother had chosen abortion instread of adoption? Well my cousin would never have been born. Would I have missed her? Well no. That may sound odd, but how can I love someone I have never met, I can I be attached to them when they don't exist? For the birth mother, the feelings will obviously be different, because there was the potential for a child (keeping in mind that I am pro-choice and I have different views on when the child actually becomes a child). My cousin could have gone to another family and I would never have had her in my life, and really, as cruel as this may sound, I wouldn't have cared about her because she would never have been a part of my life.
I hope I made sense, and didn't offend anyone. It's not my intention to offend anyone. I'm just stating my opinion.

[browncat]

So what do you feel about a woman (or man's) responsibility to protect their child with their life. I KNOW that if I were put into a situation where I had to risk my life, or die, for my child, I would. This is only a question, not meant to say your aunt was wrong in her actions. This, to me, is the same scenario.

[AKA_Monet]

MTSUGURL-

I cannot imagine the horror you went thru at that time and still feel so strongly. I am glad to see your point of view in such a way.


On that note: From what I know some of my MD friends would say that usually, it is the insurance that will not allow unneccesary "altering sterilization" procedures such as tubaligations on young women...

See, once a woman gets her tubes tied, a whole new set of problems can arise. Tubaligation is not a non-evasive procedure as one use to think. Many doctor's are not highly trained in that kind of procedure anymore. And from what I understand, the reason they say is: what's the point...

And to do it on an under 30 woman--or any woman for that matter given the "naturally" occuring hormonal changes--i.e. pre and peri-menopause, to "force" a woman to take hormone replacement before 40 can be dangerous, which is exactly what a tubaligation procedure will cause... Not to mention, that many young women do not have insurance to pay for either the procedures OR the compendium drugs that are needed...

If any reproductive organ is removed, the loss of hormones must be considered to be replaced--which the mantra of Western Medicine... The fact is, if some women want to go without those hormones, then they can suffer, hot flashes, immediate facial hair growth, pain, etc. So many doctors just do not want to risk it...

Hey it might be easier to get a "partial" sex change operation--with a full hysterectomy rather than asking for a simple tube tying. Besides that, tube tying can become necrotic and full of "puss"--which is very painful--especially in the abdomen region... But there are surgeons who can do tubaligations very well too...



Feeling the need to not want to have children is everyone's right. I personally find it rather responsible. However, protecting that responsibility has many political implications... And there are numerous reasons why... The fact that there are many mysogynistic men out there beyond their 70s that still believe this 1950's style nuclear family is a problem and what comes to my mind first...

But I think that what many folks face--especially at the "proper" marriage age between 25-32ish, is that there is this STRONG family pressure to have children and that many folks just subcomb (sp?) to that family pressure and "baby make" being ill-prepared or unwantonly...

I know my parents have this utter need to want grandchildren, even though several of my friends who have kids say my folks will truly change their minds if and when they have them... But that doesn't mean I don't get the questions from my folks every time I see them "when are you all gonna have kids?"...

Then just being recently married, and out of the single life and knowing that several of girlfriends who get asked from well meaning elders, "when are you going to get married???"

So what I am saying is this family pressure plays a significant role from abortion to reproduction...

[browncat]

Originally posted by Dionysus
Correct me if I'm wrong, in Christianity the belief is once a human grasps the difference between right and wrong...and the person chooses to do wrong, then s/he will go to hell when they die if they haven't been "saved". At that stage of life, one cannot grasp the difference between right and wrong, nor grasp that Jesus died for their sins. The baby will automatically go to heaven, but with the mom it is questionable, depending on her beliefs and how she lived her life.

This is the belief, right? If it is, isn't it more appropiate to try to save the mother's life before the baby's, giving the mother a second chance to "come clean"?
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Okay, with this kind of thinking, if I know that you have lived a good christian life, I can kill you w/out guilt b/c I know you will go to heaven. Ok, that makes a lot of sense.

Also, if you are use birth control and get pregnant, you are a parent. You raise the kid, or give it up for adoption, you don't kill it. It is pretty clear, just because you have not seen your baby doesn't make it okay to kill it. Why does anyone think it is okay to take a human life? I wish I could understand your thinking. You cannot go around killing everyone who inconveniences your life. Please tell me what you are thinking, I WANT to know, so I may understand your argument in a better way

[MTSUGURL]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
But what if you're already practicing birth control and it's an accident?

I'm a birth control and condom baby - My mom tried everything to protect herself - and she was even married!

I'm all in favor of adoption.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by browncat
Also, if you are use birth control and get pregnant, you are a parent. You raise the kid, or give it up for adoption, you don't kill it. It is pretty clear, just because you have not seen your baby doesn't make it okay to kill it. Why does anyone think it is okay to take a human life? I wish I could understand your thinking. You cannot go around killing everyone who inconveniences your life. Please tell me what you are thinking, I WANT to know, so I may understand your argument in a better way

You're saying that it's not okay to kill it. Let me ask you a question: why? Why is it not okay? Can you give me a reason that is not based on religion?

I look at it like this: I am very careful about birth control. I hope I never, ever get pregnant. I respect your opinion and understand that you and I have differing views, but what I don't understand is why you would be okay with forcing me into having a child I didn't want. Yes, I could give that child up for adoption, but the thing is, I don't think that I could deal with pregnancy. I would have a huge problem with being forced to continue a pregnancy I didn't want. I don't think that it is fair or right for anybody to make a law that would force women to continue pregnancies they didn't want. I completely understand that there are many people out there who believe that abortion is wrong, but why should anyone have the right to tell me what I can and can't do with my own body?

What if there was a way to remove a fetus/embryo from the body of a woman who didn't want it and implant it into another woman's body? Would you do it?

[browncat]

Sure, I'll give you a reason. It is ethically wrong. Think of it this way. In the grand scheme of things, which is the worse ending scenario if the two outcomes in the situation are (1. a loss of life) or (2. a girl who loses the ability to sleep around and party)? What appears to be the ethical thing to go with? I understand your argument about your body, but what about the babies body? Answer something for me. Why can't you handle a baby? Give me a reason other than the above reason of not being able to party. I believe that if you think you cannot handle a baby, you cannot handle sex.

And to the question of whether implanting embryo's into other women is ethical or moral? Well, sure, if you can assure me the baby will not be harmed.

[browncat]

Also.... no one is forcing you to have a baby.... you chose to have sex.

[DZHBrown]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
But what if you're already practicing birth control and it's an accident?

The way I see that is that it's probably happening for a reason, it's meant to be.