Who's Out? Interesting site about gay members of greek orgs

[Aquastar]

That part of the site is a message board .... people can post what they want.

The creater of the site obviously thought people were not going to do stupid things ... Its kinda sad that you have to expect the worst from people ... and its even more sad that obviously a lot of you live by that and disagree with living by any other way.

[MysticCat]

No, Aquastar, what is sad is that a list set up by the Lambda 10 Project -- which describes itself as an "Online Community for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual Fraternity Issues" -- to provide an opportunity for gay and lesbian greeks to stand up and be counted and, in the process, encourage others who may need that encouragement and challenge those who think "there are no gays in my GLO, may be undermined and possibly ignored because it isn't accurate. If the folks at Lambda 10 want the list to have any credibility at all, then they should want to take a few simple steps to discourage the posting of incorrect information. If they fail to do that, then their own credibility is going to be called into question. After all, if the whole focus of the Lamdba 10 Project is GLO's, then it ought not to be too hard for them to at least check out whether XYZ fraternity has ever had a chapter at AB College.

Bottom line: they open themselves up to someone saying "well if there are so many mistakes on this list, then why should I trust anything they have to say?"

It's called responsibility, and responsible reporting is in the Lambda 10 Project's best interest. That's all anyone has been saying on this topic.

[lambda10]

As the founder/coordinator of the Lambda 10 Project National Clearinghouse for GLB Fraternity and Sorority Issues, I wanted to respond to the claims that the "who's out" list is not accurate or confirmed members.

I believe that the men's and women's listing is very accurate and in order to be approved/confirmed there is substantial information that must be provided to prove the authenticity of the user. The process is not automatic and needs personal approval of the site administrator. As with anything, I am sure there are abusers (mostly homophobic people who are bored) who think it would be funny to list someone's name. However, we have a fail safe device that indicates such users and have caught such abusers of the list in the past. I do believe you can always make a service better, so if you have ideas please send them to info@lambda10.org--rather than just listing your inaccurate thoughts on a chat thread to discredit Lambda 10. For the record, the integrity of the Who's Out listing is high and has helped many openly gay, closeted gay, questioning, as well as straight allies.

My opinion on this post and others that say the list is not accurate or confirmed is that there are people who are not comfortable with the idea of gay members being in their fraternity/sorority and indentifying with their letters. But, that is the whole purpose of the listing to bring visibility, support and education. While Lambda 10 may never reach those who choose not to believe that there are indeed gay members in every fraternity/sorority, we will and have succeeded in supporting and educating gay and straight Greeks in understanding that hate and homophobia has no place in Greek Life.

Sincerely,

Shane Windmeyer
Lambda 10 Project
www.lambda10.org

[lambda10]

Like I said, I know the Who's Out listing is very accurate. But if you have a concern, then send me an email at info@lambda10.org

I am very open to double checking these listings. I am checking into some of your comments, but please understand that some of the listings no longer have chapters at universities/colleges and some might have been colonies, etc.

Please email me your concerns that is the only way to make things better. Thank you.

Shane Windmeyer
Lambda 10 Project

[33girl]

Originally posted by lambda10
My opinion on this post and others that say the list is not accurate or confirmed is that there are people who are not comfortable with the idea of gay members being in their fraternity/sorority and indentifying with their letters. But, that is the whole purpose of the listing to bring visibility, support and education. While Lambda 10 may never reach those who choose not to believe that there are indeed gay members in every fraternity/sorority, we will and have succeeded in supporting and educating gay and straight Greeks in understanding that hate and homophobia has no place in Greek Life.

Sincerely,

Shane Windmeyer
Lambda 10 Project
www.lambda10.org

Shane,

Thank you for coming to GC to try to allay some of our concerns. Although I don't quite understand how we can have "inaccurate thoughts" I would just like to say that you are still missing the point on the above paragraph.

I'm not questioning the validity of the site because I feel "uncomfortable" with any of my sisters who choose to come out and list their names on it. The problem is that some people have identified chapters/members who have never existed. I would be upset if ANYONE - be it Mother Teresa, Oprah Winfrey, Jennifer Aniston, whoever - represented herself as an Alpha Sigma Alpha when she was not. This board was similarly upset at an article in Us Magazine earlier this summer that identifed celebrities as members of groups that they did not belong to. Again, the problem was not that we disapproved of those people - we just did not want people who were not members to be labeled as such.

I hope you understand what the real issue is here and will do your best to correct any inaccuracies that are identified on your site. It will be a positive tool if used correctly.

[kddani]

While I respect what you're doing, I don't think any of us will appreciate basically being portrayed as homophobic.

Not one person has said a negative comment about gays.

Not one of us has said that there's never been a gay member of our GLO.

Not one of us has ever said that we did not want any gay members in our GLO.

But what we have said is that we're upset at being falsely represented. In just the few people that look through some of the names on the site that they saw chapters that have never existed. Most people in GLO know where chapters have and have not been, and if not, know where to find the list quickly. Most of us would get upset at our information being misrepresented on ANY site, regardless of the content.

The info for my GLO seemed legit, but others haven't been.

Good luck to your program, it's a worthwhile cause, but please understand why some of us were upset. And just because we're upset does not make us homophobic or haters. Suggesting that we are doesn't help your cause any.

[Shine]

I LOVE how because we want accurate portrayals of our GLO that makes us homophobes.



I know there is a lesbian in my sorority.

Do I have a problem with her?

No.

Do I deny her sisterhood to me becuase she likes girls and I like guys?

No.

Do I realize that there is probably more than one lesbian in my sorority and that the rest are probably just closeted?

Yes.

In-fact, my roommate was a lesbian last year and she continues to be one of my best friends. I tried to get her to rush numerous times.

What I do have a problem with is when my letters are misrepresented for any reason. My letters and my sorority are very important to me, and I am livid with the idea of someone claiming to be my sister when they surely are not, or someone claiming that there is a chapter of my sorority at a school where we don't exist.

There is a secrecy and a bond to being in a greek organization, and not just anyone can be in any sorority. Which is why, we demand accuracy when it comes to our membership, and people claiming to be in our sisterhood.

It has nothing to do with homosexuality, and everything to do with honesty.

[FuzzieAlum]

If you want to make it more accurate ...

When a person submits info, call the fraternity or sorority national headquarters and ask them if they have a chapter at college X. Ask them if they had/have a chapter at X during the time the applicant supposedly attended it. And ask them if that person is a member. I don't know if they'll give out that last bit of information, but they certainly will give out the first two. KD Dani is right - first and foremost we want to make sure the people mentioned are actually the Greeks they claim to be.

If that information checks out, there is still the possibility that they person is not gay, but I don't see how you can check that short of calling information, getting their phone number, and asking, "Did you sumit this information?" Whether or not someone is gay, their name should not be on there unless THEY want it on there, and the current system allows for someone else to post information on your site. Using their directory-listed number is the best way around this.

I do believe you have an obligation to fact check - and I think you do too, otherwise you wouldn't have them fill out as complete a form as you do.

But, if anything, this site is misleading, because I doubt you'll ever get the majority of gay Greeks names on there, thus *under*representing the number of gay Greeks. And anyone who has the courage to declare their orientation to the entire internet has probably already found the courage to come out to their chapter - if they weren't out to begin with.

[Phins2left]

Let's review some of what's been in this thread, beginning with some tag lines:

Today, tomorrow, forever
~Sometimes the best way to figure out who you are is to go someplace where you don't have to be anyone else~


XO
"To be womanly always; To be discouraged never."

Hmmm, yet the posters who have these as their tag lines don't seem to support the gay and/or lesbian poster's efforts to be out - for whatever reason. If the Chi-O really believed that it was never acceptable to be discouraged, why would she try to discourage people from posting on that site? And, let's face it, the AGD who posted the first quote doesn't really know what it means if she doesn't "get the point" of the Who's Out List.

Of course, this thread got even better with:

"I think to make a page like that is kind of wierd. But, hey, if they are happy and proud to be gay then more power to them. But honestly, I wouldn't make it so public. "

HELLO?????? If they "make it so public"?!?!?!?!. C'mon, be honest. If one of your brothers or sisters told you and two others that they were gay/lesbian/bisexual it would be all over the chapter in 30 minutes and all over campus in 1 day. I assure you, it's not the brother or sister who placed trust in discretion who are inherently making things public. Think it through; if being gay were truly no big deal, then these people probably wouldn't be posting on that site. However, it is a big deal, and not because they made it so, but because people like the above quoted individual think it's "weird". I do accept the lukewarm support in the middle sentence, but that bright spot is wedged between two slices of crap.


"I'm looking for a word other than stupid to describe the site...
I just think that it's unsafe for these woman and men to post their full names, universities they went to, and then have a link to email them. Are they wanting gay bashers to threaten/stalk them? I certainly hope the people who created that site have some action plan if something terrible goes wrong. "

And I'm just looking for a word other than 'bigot' to describe you. Weren't paying attention in any of those psych or soc classes, were you? Your actions are classic examples of repression...the "i'm saving you from bad things for your own good" mentality. Well meaning as you may think you are, please examine your true intentions and feelings on the subject of gay greeks. I'm willing to bet you will see through the very thin veneer of your post directly down to the subtle homophobia.

Finally, since this now has become a soap box, the 3% to 4% numbers for homosexuality in the general population are data from two research modules which are generally considered methodologically flawed. Nevertheless, even if they weren't flawed, those numbers are ONLY representative of folks who WERE and ARE EXCLUSIVELY gay or lesbian. it does not reflect the panolopy of sexual orientations, including bisexuals or even those who have, on more than one occassion "messed around" (don't even pretend you don't know what I am referring to - or that the incidence of such situational sexual orientation is not rampant).

Maybe your house has no lesbians or gay men. Maybe there are a bunch you don't know about. There is no quantitative data available for figuring that out. Though, from an anectdotal point of view, let me tell you that I have gone through college satisfying my sexual needs with same sex people from several other chapters, most of whom you "would never have known...".

And, as a final note, just let me say that I truly hope that a favored brother or sister comes out to each of you very soon, so that you will see in their eyes the trust they are placing in you , that you will mind your pledge of sister/brotherhood and that you will not merely not reject them, but you will embrace them as they are. This, I tell you, is the true meaning.



K, I feel better now.

buh bye

[kddani]

I'm glad that you felt brave enough to create a new username, whoever you are, to attack several GC members.

Doing that makes you no better than what you claim they are.

At least have the balls to post with your real username.

[Phins2left]

I hope this last post wasn't intended for me. If it was, then all I have to say is:

What in the hell are you talking about?

Yes, I created a new user name........BECAUSE I'M A NEW USER.

Was there some information in my profile you thought ought to be there? Phone number? Address? SSN? Be real. I just surveyed a few other user profiles and those things aren't in many if not most.

You want ballsy? How about risking every friendship you've made over 4 years by telling a group of guys you've been lying to them and that they have no idea who you actually are? Now how about repeating that for family, co-workers, etc? That's ballsy. When you raise your nose from Prosser and realize that not everything in life can be equated as suggeted by Learned Hand (oops, did I tip my hand????..bet you've applied your laser-like analysis and figured out that I've already been where you are now), then you can judge people on their actions. Otherwise I suggest you continue to work on getting out of the bottom half of your class and finding a 2L to get engaged to.

[zchi2]

To Phins2left:

I said that I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread because I was really getting sick of defending myself, but I had to thank you for that first post. I don't know if that is your real username or not. (even though I don't know how anyone would know...), but I'm so glad that you posted all of those things.

quote: Maybe your house has no lesbians or gay men. Maybe their a bunch you don't know about. There is no quantitative
data available for figuring that out. Though, from a anectdotal point of view, let me tell you that I have gone
through college satisfying my sexual needs with same sex people from several other chapters, most of whom you
"would never have known...".


AMEN AMEN AMEN

[kddani]

Ummm... what the hell are you talking about?

I posted that because you come out of nowhere and attack several well respected members of GC. We respect each other here, which hopefully you will learn, so when someone comes and just starts attacking people, they're gonna get called out on it.

Don't know why on earth you have this huge chip on your shoulder but i do hope you calm down.

Oooohhh big deal if you've already been to law school. And you know nothing about me outside of what's on here... for your information I haven't even started law school yet, not for another week. I'm attending on academic scholarship so it's very doubtful that I'll be in the bottom half of my class.

If you have actually been through law school, then you should be at the age where you "should" be a "grown-up" and mature enough not to just come in somewhere and start attacking people and tossing random insults.

No one on here has posted anything against gays. WHAT WE'RE UPSET ABOUT IS FALSE INFORMATION. And now people randomly attacking other GCers.

[DWAlphaGam]

Listen, I don't appreciate being attacked personally when I STATED SPECIFICALLY IN ONE OF MY POSTS THAT I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH MY LESBIAN SISTERS!!! I know they are out there, although I have not yet encountered an openly gay sister. I embrace all of my sisters no matter what their lifestyles may be. I never said anything about not wanting lesbians to join my sorority. If they feel at home there, then I am glad that they found it because I think it's a wonderful organization for any woman to join, whether she is gay, straight, bisexual, old, young, black, white, green, or blue. I stand by the quote that is in my profile and I would never shun a sister or discourage her from being herself. The reason I said I don't "get the point" of the website is because I personally don't care who someone decides to have sex with, and I don't see why anyone would want their name and contact information posted on the internet stating something that may put themselves in danger. If someone wants to post their name on this website, then more power to them, but I don't think it's right that someone represented themselves as being a member of Alpha Gamma Delta when they are not.

[kddani]

Amen DWAlphaGam

I could care less who my sisters sleep with (well, within reason, if he was some dirty scumbag i'd take issues, but in general)- men or women. As long as it's not animals or children, I could care less.