Non-social GLOs...do you honestly consider us fellow Greeks?

[LexiKD]

I would say that at ECU, if asked how many fraternities and sororities, the average person would say 16 IFC and 9 NPC and I think all 9 NPHC...things have changed since I was in school!

I think why we do not consider service groups, music groups and so on in that is b/c we belong to the same governing bodies, function under the same regualtions and numbers and membership selection and requirements. IFC/NIC, NPHC, and NPC have relationships and work together on issues and such...

We did have a local and they were part of ECU Panhellenic but were still not considered a full on sorority b/c of the lack of requirments nationally and locally.

If you ask me, I guess we all are Greeks, but there are different levels. Since I was never in anyting other than an NPC group I do not know the background on other sororities...so I cannot say how similiar they are...

But if you want to talk what the general public thinks....well, when 20/20 does a story they usually try to go after IFC/NIC/NPHC/NPC groups...maybe b/c they generally think of those groups as the most accepted as Greeks...not real sure on that.

[Dionysus]

I have no problem with social GLO members joining APO. But, a lot of them are very committed to their social GLO, leaving less room for us. I enjoy having them as members ONLY, they are a good asset. However, I think it is unfair for them to have EC positions, when there are members who put APO as first priority (when it comes to organizations). We have had a past president suddenly resign, because she was overcommitted.
Because of that, our chapter progress backslid (we were working on our charter then).

ktsnake is definately right! It's not just the social greeks that can be under-committed to non-social GLO's and other organizations. Seniors, athletes, professional greeks, full-time workers, and commuter students also have trouble with commitment to our GLO.

[Mystic Cat32]

In response to TrojanGirl's comment on "Some Sinfonians have gone social" I wanted to share this info. The entire fraternity is officially registered with the Federal Government as being social. Some people might not feel comfortable with this but the facts can be undisputed. At the last province 32 workshop, the National President, Dr. Darhyl Ramsey, said that the National Fraternity is under discussion and is making a move to join the NIC. Currently there are several chapters throughout the nation that are on their own IFCs at their campuses. Experience at these chapters has shown that recruiting is better increased. At one of the chapters, I can't think of the state, the president of the IFC is a brother of Phi Mu Alpha. The fraternity is officially social. In 1992 there was a Title IX response letter that ended the initiation of women, a practice that was challenged with Title IX for a short period in the late 70s, and was used to officially register the fraternity with the Federal Government as being "social". As a social order the fraternity could prevent women from joining. The roots of the fraternity were social(refer to the original objects)but it wasn't until 1982 that it became official with the government.

The affiliation with music is better understood when we look at the foundations of the Order. The fraternity began at the New England Conservatory at a time when it was predominately women. The Chancellor/Bursor, brother Ossian E. Mills, of the Conservatory, who was not a professional musician, wanted to establish a social Order that would unite the few men that were there and develop a brotherhood.

In response to life saver's comment I wanted to share that we accept all majors, we're stated as social in our constitution, and we do have socials as well as affiliate with other Greek organizations. We had a member of Phi Kappa Sigma come in to one of our meetings this semester and propose a battle of the bands event that would be sponsored by both groups this Fall. The Alpha Phi girls that we serenaded at a trip to New Orleans loved us for singing to them and the Kappa Kappa Gamma girls we serenaded at our booth during University Day were appreciative. We also serenaded random women at the Union and presented flowers during Valentine's Day. That was a lot of fun. We've also been involved with homecoming. We appoint a representative to run for the Royal Court and design a float just like everyone else. If you ever considered our fraternal Order to be professional then you've just been one of the many that have given in to a popular misconception. Yours Truly, Mystic Cat32

[Mystic Cat32]

That is correct Mystic Cat81...I checked this one out with Dr. Darhyl Ramsey, our National President. If you join Phi Mu Alpha then you cannot join any other Social GLO. The reason there have been people that have done it is because a lot of people including brothers have thought that we're professional when we're not.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by Mystic Cat32
That is correct Mystic Cat81...

LOL! I thought you were talking to yourself at first!

Anyways, back on topic...........

[DZTUBAGIRL]

Mystic Cat: I don't know how he got around doing this but he told me that he could because phi mu alpha is a social fraternity and mu phi epsilon is a professional fraternity.

Anne Marie

[TrojanGirl]

The Sinfonian chapter at Delta State in Mississippi is a member of the local IFC. They have done very well as a chapter and have only benifited from being in IFC. They are interesting in the fact that they are also the only multi-racial social GLO on campus. I believe they were also the first chapter to go truely "social" on campus (and joing IFC).

Just a question.. what is NIC? I know IFC and NPC and NPHC, but NIC eludes me.

TG

[Mystic Cat32]

That is correct DZtubagirl, you can be in another GLO just as long as it is not social. NIC is the National Interfraternity Council. I think that that's correct but I could be wrong. Another comment made earlier about the name given to GLO's that are not members of Panhellinic, National Panhellinic, or IFC is "Independents".

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Mystic Cat32
NIC is the National Interfraternity Council. I think that that's correct but I could be wrong.

Actually, it is the North-American Interfraternity Conference, the national/international version of a campus IFC.

Sorry to confuse you, Dionysus. My esteemed brother Mystic Cat32 and I didn't set out to have such similar names. "A most mysterious mystery is our mighty mystic cat."

[ilovemyglo]

I really think that it depends on what campus you are on. At my school, there is a Ceres chapter. They have social events and are a social sorority, however, none of the fraternities have events with them. They are even on our panhellenic, which they fought for 2 years, but they rarely attend meetings there and they do not participate in ANY greek events, except Greek week and then they only participate in one or two events, not all of them. So that is why many IFC, NPC groups do not acknowledge them. There is also a chapter of DO and Phi Mu Alpha. They are not very social, except with each other. Some of my chapter sisters are also in DO and have told me that they haze and do rush, they have initiation and ritual, but they only have two social events a year and mostly they don't do a lot with any other greek orgs except Phi Mu Alpha. Neither org wears any letters, although a few members carry ID Holders or keychains with letters and there is one caron campus with a license plate. But it has already been proven on many campuses they are very active and very prominent.
I don't consider any of the honorary orgs I am in greek though. I am in three greek letter honorary orgs and you would never know it because none of them do anything except initiation.
Sarah

[MysticCat]

I think that you're right, ilovemyglo/sarah -- it depends on what campus you are on. That said, a FMA chapter that doesn't even wear letters?! I never heard of such a thing. Sounds a little lame -- somebody needs to wake those guys up.

ilovemyglo-

You have DO's in your chapter?!?!?!?!?!

I'm a DO and we were always told that we were not allowed to be in any other social greek organization, which ended up being a major source of tension for me, since I'd always wanted to go through Rush and was very, very unhappy that I was not permitted to! I know it's for sure in our chapter by-laws (something I tried to get changed while I was Prez) but I have been told it's in our International By-laws as well.

On my campus the music greek orgs (DO, Phi Mu Alpha, and Tau Phi Lambda-local) tend to stick together mostly because we are not welcomed as "equal greeks" by the NIC and NPC chapters on campus (ie. we are not invited to participate in Greek Week, not invited to socials, we are turned down when we invite them to socials, etc.) Well at least not a few years ago when I was there, maybe that's changed now, but I doubt it. All three of us are/were very active organizations both philanthropically and socially, wear our letters all the time, etc. but have had poor experiences with all but one social fraternity (Pikes, probably because half of our girls have or had boyfriends in them!) and Alpha Sigma, a local sorority.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by Ginger
ilovemyglo-

You have DO's in your chapter?!?!?!?!?!

On my campus the music greek orgs (DO, Phi Mu Alpha, and Tau Phi Lambda-local) tend to stick together mostly because we are not welcomed as "equal greeks" by the NIC and NPC chapters on campus (ie. we are not invited to participate in Greek Week, not invited to socials, we are turned down when we invite them to socials, etc.) Well at least not a few years ago when I was there, maybe that's changed now, but I doubt it. All three of us are/were very active organizations both philanthropically and socially, wear our letters all the time, etc. but have had poor experiences with all but one social fraternity (Pikes, probably because half of our girls have or had boyfriends in them!) and Alpha Sigma, a local sorority.

It comes down to this, social greeks tend to think they are better than non-social ones. For obvious reasons, that I rather not get into.

On the flipside, non-social greeks also tend to think they are better than the social ones. For obvious reasons, that I rather not get into neither.

I think this is the source of the tension.

With my greek background I feel neutral. I think both can work together without either losing their "purpose". It's too bad that many on both sides don't feel that way.

BTW what is a DO?

Originally posted by Dionysus
BTW what is a DO?

Delta Omicron

[Delta_theta]

Originally posted by Dionysus


It comes down to this, social greeks tend to think they are better than non-social ones. For obvious reasons, that I rather not get into.

On the flipside, non-social greeks also tend to think they are better than the social ones. For obvious reasons, that I rather not get into neither.

I think this is the source of the tension.

I dissagree. I think, at least on my campus, it is more of a seperation of interests, and a seperation of system. The two non-"social" GLO's on my campus, APO and SAI are working in a different system, under a different paradigm, than the rest of us. There are people with duel memebership, but that is slowly dying off. The systems, which could be compatable, currently, aren't. At least here.

be it steriotypes, or just different "social circles" (A very highschool concept in my opinion) as it was once explained to me by a member of SAI who was unhappy with the memebers who were also in "social" sororities, there is something seen at least on one side, if not the other as being incompatable anymore. on my campus, we have all of 1400 students. 52% of the males are greek, 17% of the females. according to our student affairs office. Neither of those numbers includes SAI or APO. SAI and APO do not take part in the normal rushes(for obvious duel membership reasons). And outside of certain joint activites(my fraternity works with APO on the blood drive three times a year), the two systems rarely mix. But, an APO set of letters is rarely seen. APO doesn't get together outside of their activies in any noticable fasion, SAI gets togthere once a term or so, outside of meeting, to do a fundraiser. I know of one set of SAI teeshirts, that were made, and worn on occasion by the members of SAI. They are not cohesive groups here. And anyone with duel membership is MUCH more loyal to their other greek membership.

The resentment comes in when One of the two systems try's to overstep into what the other consideres their teritory. Greek week is a great contentment around here. There are no clear boundries. Who is allowd to do what? The social systems are big into philanthropy, so apo shouldn't get mad when the fraternities end up doing a large number of the MS walks, heart disease gatherings.

In the end, I don't think it is one system feels they are better than the other. Just different. there are a few IN the system who might feel this way, but the systems themslves, as a whole, see it differently.

M.
Sigma Nu
Knox College