9 Charged after girl kills herself over bullying

[srmom]

We must be reading two different articles. I see nothing that shows the boy manned up. it appears he was just in the locker room and got a wedgie.

When I said he "manned up" I was referring to this:

"Our family lives with this every night," says LaDonna Keeling from North Richland Hills "What keeps me strong is he's strong."

And the fact that he didn't commit suicide, which in some posts seems to be alluded to as not "manning up".

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by srmom

When I said he "manned up" I was referring to this:



And the fact that he didn't commit suicide, which in some posts seems to be alluded to as not "manning up".

emergency room wedgie > suicide

I don't see how what you posted contrasts what they were saying regarding strength in any way (I don't agree with the use of "manning up" but I see their general point). The boy is strong with help from his family (the family shouldn't wait for HIS strength to be strong FOR him) and he will get past this painful wedgie. He couldn't get past suicide.

[srmom]

Were their names published? Just wondering, because if not, how will they be punished by their reputation or by not getting a job. If it isn't on their records or in their background checks how will people know them from a can of paint?

Not only are their names being published, but pictures, and if you google the names, links to numerous discussions of their facebook pages, their families' facebook pages, their athletic accomplishments and stats, their school awards, etc, etc.

In this day and age, once your name is out there in cyberspace, you are forever known, and if what is out there is negative, you will forever be carrying that baggage around.

I'm sure they didn't think of that as they were hurling insults, posting nasty things, and throwing Red Bull cans at her.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by srmom

And the fact that he didn't commit suicide, which in some posts seems to be alluded to as not "manning up".

"Manning up" isn't about not committing suicide, but about taking appropriate steps to deal with the situation.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by srmom

When I said he "manned up" I was referring to this:



And the fact that he didn't commit suicide, which in some posts seems to be alluded to as not "manning up".

No. That's not what I meant about manning up. Sounds like he just took it without standing up for himself.

[srmom]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

emergency room wedgie > suicide

I don't see how what you posted contrasts what they were saying regarding strength in any way (I don't agree with the use of "manning up" but I see their general point). The boy is strong with help from his family (the family shouldn't wait for HIS strength to be strong FOR him) and he will get past this painful wedgie. He couldn't get past suicide.

Absolutely. But, from reading this thread, there are some who have IMO "blamed" the girl who hanged herself for not "manning up". Others have said, and not just in this thread but on other blogs and message boards, that the parents should have done more, but in some cases (like the article I posted and in NUMEROUS websites about bullying) the parents HAVE done everything, short of selling their house and moving to another city, to try to stop the bullying, by going to school administrators and teachers and advising them of the problems, to no avail.

This kid's school supposedly has a "zero tolerance policy" for bullying, but even after the parents had complained, nothing was done. It isn't until someone is actually hurt - as in the torn rectum (it may have been from a wedgie, but geesus, does belittling HOW he ended up having to have his bottom sewed back up somehow make it okay??) that something is done.

In this family's case they took it to the police and the kids were sentenced to "supervised counseling" Obviously, that's not much punishment. I bet those kids laughed out loud when that's what they were told their "punishment" was going to be.

From the article, the expert says:

Dr. Wendy Middlemiss is an expert on bullying from the University of North Texas in Denton, she says if there's no punishment, there's no learning. "It's certainly not punishment there is nothing that would necessarily in the short run discourage a child from engaging in that type of behavior again."

How is "supervised counseling" punishment to 16 year old boys?

[srmom]

No. That's not what I meant about manning up. Sounds like he just took it without standing up for himself.

What's he supposed to do? A group of athletes surround him and do a wedgie so hard it tears his rectum. I would assume they are bigger and stronger than him. Unless he has some super power that can overwhelm them, I'm pretty sure he's at their mercy, and obviously they aren't very merciful.

That's the thing - bullies generally have superior power or influence over those that they are bullying.

If the guy could kick their ass, I doubt they'd be messing with him!!

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by srmom

What's he supposed to do? A group of athletes surround him and do a wedgie so hard it tears his rectum. I would assume they are bigger and stronger than him. Unless he has some super power that can overwhelm them, I'm pretty sure he's at their mercy, and obviously they aren't very merciful.

That's the thing - bullies generally have superior power or influence over those that they are bullying.

If the guy could kick their ass, I doubt they'd be messing with him!!

You shouldn't make such assumptions. Sometimes bullies gain power not because of superiority in size and strength, but simply by using mind games. I've seen kids being bullied by other kids who are the same size.

Being little doesn't mean you are completely helpless.

[srmom]

"Manning up" isn't about not committing suicide, but about taking appropriate steps to deal with the situation

HE DID!!

He told his parents, the parents went to the school, they tried to get it to stop! What else are the appropriate steps?

Should he have taken a weapon to school and threatened the bullies, because obviously, he couldn't physically intimidate them in any way.

What are these kids supposed to do?

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by srmom

Absolutely. But, from reading this thread, there are some who have IMO "blamed" the girl who hanged herself for not "manning up". Others have said, and not just in this thread but on other blogs and message boards, that the parents should have done more, but in some cases (like the article I posted and in NUMEROUS websites about bullying) the parents HAVE done everything, short of selling their house and moving to another city, to try to stop the bullying, by going to school administrators and teachers and advising them of the problems, to no avail.

This kid's school supposedly has a "zero tolerance policy" for bullying, but even after the parents had complained, nothing was done. It isn't until someone is actually hurt - as in the torn rectum (it may have been from a wedgie, but geesus, does belittling HOW he ended up having to have his bottom sewed back up somehow make it okay??) that something is done.

The parents DO have some blame. They weren't aggressive enough. sometimes when issues like this arise, parents have to "show out" in order to see something happen.

[srmom]

You shouldn't make such assumptions. Sometimes bullies gain power not because of superiority in size and strength, but simply by using mind games. I've seen kids being bullied by other kids who are the same size.

I'm not, if you read my post, I said:That's the thing - bullies generally have superior power or influence over those that they are bullying.

If someone is superior intellectually, or socially, they can also bully - that's what you see more often in girl on girl bullying. It's not physical but mental bullying. Read Queen Bees and Wannabes, interesting book on female bullying and adolescent power struggles of girls.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by srmom

Absolutely. But, from reading this thread, there are some who have IMO "blamed" the girl who hanged herself for not "manning up". Others have said, and not just in this thread but on other blogs and message boards, that the parents should have done more, but in some cases (like the article I posted and in NUMEROUS websites about bullying) the parents HAVE done everything, short of selling their house and moving to another city, to try to stop the bullying, by going to school administrators and teachers and advising them of the problems, to no avail.

The parents didn't do everything they could do. They knew about it and more could have been done instead of, as I said before, relinquishing their child's outcome to the inadequate adults and stupid children at the school. Another instance of hindsight is 20/20.

Originally Posted by srmom

This kid's school supposedly has a "zero tolerance policy" for bullying, but even after the parents had complained, nothing was done. It isn't until someone is actually hurt - as in the torn rectum (it may have been from a wedgie, but geesus, does belittling HOW he ended up having to have his bottom sewed back up somehow make it okay??) that something is done.

If all the parents did was complain and wait, they didn't do nearly enough. I wager that most of these kids have inadequate coping skills because their parents have provided inadequate coping mechanisms. Kids are a reflection of their environments.

If the parents went to the police, that's all well and good but they shouldn't have trusted that the police would follow through? Since when do people trust the police to do more than enforce the law at the surface level?

I'm not blaming the victims so much as acknowledging personal decisions and encouraging people to do better with their children. We can't predict and control the actions of other kids. We have more control over what happens in our homes in preparation for what our kids may face in this crazy world. Inner city and minority kids have been taught about this crazy world for generations in order to teach about aspirations-and-disappointments as well as to buffer the effects of social strains and mental/emotional disorders. It's about time that other kids are raised to put the rose colored glasses down so they can know what to do when someone says "fuck you."

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The parents didn't do everything they could do. They knew about it and more could have been done instead of, as I said before, relinquishing their child's outcome to the inadequate adults and stupid children at the school. Another instance of hindsight is 20/20.


If all the parents did was complain and wait, they didn't do nearly enough. I wager that most of these kids have inadequate coping skills because their parents have provided inadequate coping mechanisms. Kids are a reflection of their environments.

If the parents went to the police, that's all well and good but they shouldn't have trusted that the police would follow through? Since when do people trust the police to do more than enforce the law at the surface level?

I'm not blaming the victims so much as acknowledging personal decisions and encouraging people to do better with their children. We can't predict and control the actions of other kids. We have more control over what happens in our homes in preparation for what our kids may face in this crazy world. Inner city and minority kids have been taught about this crazy world for generations in order to teach about aspirations-and-disappointments as well as to buffer the effects of social strains and mental/emotional disorders. It's about time that other kids are raised to put the rose colored glasses down so they can know what to do when someone says "fuck you."

well said. I especially agree with the part in bold.

[AOII Angel]

What is manning up? Is it talking back to your bully? Is it going to the principal yourself?is it fighting the bully who may be much larger or bring along three friends? I think this discussion of manning up is ridiculous and in most cases does not good or worse may result in the victim getting really hurt. Real life isn't like the movie "Lucas," and joining the football team, taking a few hard hits, and tutoring the dumb jock isn't going to make the scrawny nerd popular.

BTW...there is a big difference between psychological and physical bullying like in the case of the rectal tear kid. As for the girl who committed suicide, it sounds like a mix since the girl punched another girl in the head for talking to a reporter after the girl's death. Also, bringing the parents' actions back into this is irrelevant since this whole discussion of manning up was about teenagers needing to buck up and take care of themselves.

[srmom]

The parents DO have some blame. They weren't aggressive enough. sometimes when issues like this arise, parents have to "show out" in order to see something happen.

What more could they have done? They went to the school and told administrators their kid was being bullied, the school supposedly has a "zero tolerance" policy for bullying. Short of pulling their kid out, what are they to do?

I can speak from personal experience on this - I went to private school for years (Catholic) and starting in 7th grade, I was bullied - RELENTLESSLY by the group of girls that had been "my friends" for years! They turned on me for some unknown reason and my life became a living hell. Eventually, I was so stressed that I started showing physical signs of depression - started with getting nausious at the thought of going to school, led to a full blown case of Shingles - AT 12!!

My parents went to the principal and complained, they contacted the girls' parents, all to no avail, it was seen as "girls will be girls". I ended up missing so much school that my parents eventually pulled me out and put me at the public school in our neighborhood. THANK GOD we had that option!

anyway, I get these kids cuz I've been there!

Strangely, I am acquainted with alot of these same people (we all come back to the neighborhood), and we've talked about what happened. The women now can't come up with any reason I was singled out, just that I was the popular target for the day, and when they saw that it bothered me, they just kept it up for entertainment. They say that they had no idea that it effected me so badly, and that they are sorry now.

I forgive, but I won't ever forget.