9 Charged after girl kills herself over bullying

[srmom]

No. That's not what I meant about manning up. Sounds like he just took it without standing up for himself.

What's he supposed to do? A group of athletes surround him and do a wedgie so hard it tears his rectum. I would assume they are bigger and stronger than him. Unless he has some super power that can overwhelm them, I'm pretty sure he's at their mercy, and obviously they aren't very merciful.

That's the thing - bullies generally have superior power or influence over those that they are bullying.

If the guy could kick their ass, I doubt they'd be messing with him!!

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by srmom

What's he supposed to do? A group of athletes surround him and do a wedgie so hard it tears his rectum. I would assume they are bigger and stronger than him. Unless he has some super power that can overwhelm them, I'm pretty sure he's at their mercy, and obviously they aren't very merciful.

That's the thing - bullies generally have superior power or influence over those that they are bullying.

If the guy could kick their ass, I doubt they'd be messing with him!!

You shouldn't make such assumptions. Sometimes bullies gain power not because of superiority in size and strength, but simply by using mind games. I've seen kids being bullied by other kids who are the same size.

Being little doesn't mean you are completely helpless.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You shouldn't make such assumptions. Sometimes bullies gain power not because of superiority in size and strength, but simply by using mind games. I've seen kids being bullied by other kids who are the same size.

Being little doesn't mean you are completely helpless.

It doesn't, but it doesn't mean you can do shit about it either. It's ridiculous to expect one kid to fight a group especially if he is smaller than they, and the "hit them back" attitude backfires just about every single time.

Having been the little person (and no I wasn't tiny, but small enough to know I couldn't take them all on in a million years) surrounded by much larger girls, I know exactly how it feels when you realize there is literally nothing you can do to protect yourself at that moment. Knowing you can run to a teacher or parent afterword isn't reassuring at the moment they're closing in.

Originally Posted by Prettyface08

So SHE can't turn off HER computer? That part of her world she can control. No, it's not fair that she's not able to use facebook/myspace/whatever space....but she doesn't have to read it. At the very least she could have peace in her own home.

No, she can't. Because whether the computer is on or not, people are talking about her all over the internet, and she knows it's in reading for the entire world to see.

I don't believe in treating children like they're made of glass, but this sort of attitude is exactly why the situation ended like it did.

Originally Posted by Prettyface08

What if this isn't possible? I had a cousin who was bullied in the first grade and was told that if he didn't bring the bully $.50 he was going to be beaten up. My cousin is smaller than the kids his age and at such a young age how can one "man up". We only knew about it because I noticed a change in his behavior, it only stopped because his mom and her sister took action by going to the principal, the teacher, the bully's mom and finally THE BULLY. I always worry about him because he's so small and I know that it's easy for him to become a target, he's so little. Bullying really bothers me because I've seen how stressed out a child can be because of it.

I agree that this younger generation is kind of soft, but you don't know what another persons breaking point is. Just because you can take being taunted and teased doesn't mean that the next person can. This isn't new, it's just that most of the time we hear about it as a murder suicide. This young lady told her parents, her parents told the school and no one protected her.

Not to mention, what if she had depression (clinical) on top of this bullying? People never take that into account and it's absolutely a real disease.

Sometimes there is no "manning up" I've seen what happens when a kid is mercilessly tormented. At least before Facebook kids could, for the most part, escape it for a few hours once they left school. Think about how it feels to not only be mercilessly tormented at school, but to be tormented with no break. Ever. Knowing that the entire world can read what bullies wrote and it'll follow her forever. In the mind of a teenager who is already struggling, that's massive.

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

It doesn't, but it doesn't mean you can do shit about it either. It's ridiculous to expect one kid to fight a group especially if he is smaller than they, and the "hit them back" attitude backfires just about every single time.

Having been the little person (and no I wasn't tiny, but small enough to know I couldn't take them all on in a million years) surrounded by much larger girls, I know exactly how it feels when you realize there is literally nothing you can do to protect yourself at that moment. Knowing you can run to a teacher or parent afterword isn't reassuring at the moment they're closing in.



No, she can't. Because whether the computer is on or not, people are talking about her all over the internet, and she knows it's in reading for the entire world to see.

I don't believe in treating children like they're made of glass, but this sort of attitude is exactly why the situation ended like it did.




Not to mention, what if she had depression (clinical) on top of this bullying? People never take that into account and it's absolutely a real disease.

Sometimes there is no "manning up" I've seen what happens when a kid is mercilessly tormented. At least before Facebook kids could, for the most part, escape it for a few hours once they left school. Think about how it feels to not only be mercilessly tormented at school, but to be tormented with no break. Ever. Knowing that the entire world can read what bullies wrote and it'll follow her forever. In the mind of a teenager who is already struggling, that's massive.

To the bold, apparently you have not been reading my posts...or the one you responded to for that matter. I said she'd have peace at home and I never said to treat her like she was glass and that it shouldn't have been dealth with. When responding to me, read the entire post. Please and thankies.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Prettyface08

To the bold, apparently you have not been reading my posts...or the one you responded to for that matter. I said she'd have peace at home and I never said to treat her like she was glass and that it shouldn't have been dealth with. When responding to me, read the entire post. Please and thankies.

I very thoroughly read them and stand by everything I said. You, m'dear, didn't read mine (really, are we going to play this game?). The entire point is that no, she would not have "peace at home". It doesn't matter if she's engaging in conversation with these people on the internet or not, she KNOWS it's going on, everyone in the world can see it, and it will follow her forever. That's not peace.

[srmom]

"Manning up" isn't about not committing suicide, but about taking appropriate steps to deal with the situation

HE DID!!

He told his parents, the parents went to the school, they tried to get it to stop! What else are the appropriate steps?

Should he have taken a weapon to school and threatened the bullies, because obviously, he couldn't physically intimidate them in any way.

What are these kids supposed to do?

[srmom]

You shouldn't make such assumptions. Sometimes bullies gain power not because of superiority in size and strength, but simply by using mind games. I've seen kids being bullied by other kids who are the same size.

I'm not, if you read my post, I said:That's the thing - bullies generally have superior power or influence over those that they are bullying.

If someone is superior intellectually, or socially, they can also bully - that's what you see more often in girl on girl bullying. It's not physical but mental bullying. Read Queen Bees and Wannabes, interesting book on female bullying and adolescent power struggles of girls.

[AOII Angel]

What is manning up? Is it talking back to your bully? Is it going to the principal yourself?is it fighting the bully who may be much larger or bring along three friends? I think this discussion of manning up is ridiculous and in most cases does not good or worse may result in the victim getting really hurt. Real life isn't like the movie "Lucas," and joining the football team, taking a few hard hits, and tutoring the dumb jock isn't going to make the scrawny nerd popular.

BTW...there is a big difference between psychological and physical bullying like in the case of the rectal tear kid. As for the girl who committed suicide, it sounds like a mix since the girl punched another girl in the head for talking to a reporter after the girl's death. Also, bringing the parents' actions back into this is irrelevant since this whole discussion of manning up was about teenagers needing to buck up and take care of themselves.

[srmom]

The parents DO have some blame. They weren't aggressive enough. sometimes when issues like this arise, parents have to "show out" in order to see something happen.

What more could they have done? They went to the school and told administrators their kid was being bullied, the school supposedly has a "zero tolerance" policy for bullying. Short of pulling their kid out, what are they to do?

I can speak from personal experience on this - I went to private school for years (Catholic) and starting in 7th grade, I was bullied - RELENTLESSLY by the group of girls that had been "my friends" for years! They turned on me for some unknown reason and my life became a living hell. Eventually, I was so stressed that I started showing physical signs of depression - started with getting nausious at the thought of going to school, led to a full blown case of Shingles - AT 12!!

My parents went to the principal and complained, they contacted the girls' parents, all to no avail, it was seen as "girls will be girls". I ended up missing so much school that my parents eventually pulled me out and put me at the public school in our neighborhood. THANK GOD we had that option!

anyway, I get these kids cuz I've been there!

Strangely, I am acquainted with alot of these same people (we all come back to the neighborhood), and we've talked about what happened. The women now can't come up with any reason I was singled out, just that I was the popular target for the day, and when they saw that it bothered me, they just kept it up for entertainment. They say that they had no idea that it effected me so badly, and that they are sorry now.

I forgive, but I won't ever forget.

[DrPhil]

I have probably told this story before. Hilarious.

I went to a majority Black high school and we had ESL classes. Some of the dumbass Black boys would pick on the kids from other countries who couldn't speak English. Well, unlike the disabled kids who couldn't fight back, the ESL kids could:

LOL. One day after lunch, the Black boys thought they could call one of the Asian boys who didn't speak English that he was Bruce Lee. So, one particular boy decided to prove them RIGHT and kung fu their asses in the hallway. No one was harmed but it let the bullies know that they aren't picking on some punks just because these students were ESL and most of them were smaller in size.

We all laughed AT the Black boys and no one ever messed with the ESL students again. I don't condone kids fighting back but there are a number of ways to let bullies know that they need to sit down somewhere. Even taking your kid to self-defense classes can boost self-esteem and provide a defense mechanism if need be.

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I have probably told this story before. Hilarious.

I went to a majority Black high school and we had ESL classes. Some of the dumbass Black boys would pick on the kids from other countries would couldn't speak English. Well, unlike the disabled kids who couldn't fight back, the ESL kids could:

LOL. One day after lunch, the Black boys thought they could call one of the Asian boys who didn't speak English that he was Bruce Lee. So, one particular boy decided to prove them RIGHT and kung fu their asses in the hallway. No one was harmed but it let the bullies know that they aren't picking on some punks just because these students were ESL and most of them were smaller in size.

We all laughed AT the Black boys and no one ever messed with the ESL students again. I don't condone kids fighting back but there are a number of ways to let bullies know that they need to sit down somewhere. Even taking your kid to self-defense classes can boost self-esteem and provide a defense mechanism if need be.

Oh, I think I can one-up you. LOL in elementary, once a week we would have one of the students from the disabled class sit in on our class. We had the same student every week and he'd been coming for almost the entire school year. One day, one of the boys in our class decided to make fun of him (we all made fun of each other, but kept the disabled boy out of it. We really liked him and he was nice), he couldn't speak and he could hardly walk...he used crutches. I guess the taunting from the boy got on his nerves because his face got completely red, he threw his crutches to the ground and walked up in the boys face. We just stood around with our mouths open, the teacher had to come pull him away. When the disabled boy left the class, we laughed SO hard. The boy who was teasing him was going to be beat up by a disabled kid.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by srmom

Absolutely. But, from reading this thread, there are some who have IMO "blamed" the girl who hanged herself for not "manning up". Others have said, and not just in this thread but on other blogs and message boards, that the parents should have done more, but in some cases (like the article I posted and in NUMEROUS websites about bullying) the parents HAVE done everything, short of selling their house and moving to another city, to try to stop the bullying, by going to school administrators and teachers and advising them of the problems, to no avail.

First off, I think your confusing general discussions/opinions of how teenagers are (compared to previous years) with the specifics of the South Hadley case. Personally, from what I've read/heard Phoebe did do what she could with respect to reporting or getting the bullying reported. That being said, I feel like as a society, we pick and choose situations (often arbitrarily) that we desire kids/teens to be responsible. We let them drive, but then we let them off the hook with responsibilities in situations like this (FYI I've been reading comments from people that the perps in the S. Hadley case are just children and should be "shown the right way" instead of prosecuted). Fitting example.

Originally Posted by srmom

This kid's school supposedly has a "zero tolerance policy" for bullying, but even after the parents had complained, nothing was done. It isn't until someone is actually hurt - as in the torn rectum (it may have been from a wedgie, but geesus, does belittling HOW he ended up having to have his bottom sewed back up somehow make it okay??) that something is done.

In the case of the kid from Texas, I don't recall seeing that the school had a zero tolerance policy but that the followed their established policy, which is most likely insufficient. And even with "zero tolerance" policies, unless they are strictly, and consistently enforced, then they mean nothing more than any other "policy". Does speaking up ALWAYS mean that the solution you'd like to see, or any other solution for that matter, is going to come down...NO and this is part of what Dr. Phil is talking about with respect to the "rose colored" glasses.

A single or a couple of reports at the school/local level are sometimes not enough. And no I don't think the parents in the S. Hadley case did all that they could do, but I also recognize that there were most likely obstacles that prevented them from doing so. And I also recognize that we are now looking at this situation after the fact and hindsight is 20/20.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

What is manning up? Is it talking back to your bully? Is it going to the principal yourself?

Manning up, or at the very least, being an active agent in your situation is far from ridiculous. I don't condone physically fighting back as I recognize how a situation can easily get out of hand and a cycle can be perpetuated. But if a child (general kid, not nec the cases presented in this thread) is suffering in silence, particularly someone over the age of 13, then no I don't think they are being active in escaping/resolving the situation.

Originally Posted by srmom

I can speak from personal experience on this - I went to private school for years (Catholic) and starting in 7th grade, I was bullied - RELENTLESSLY by the group of girls that had been "my friends" for years! They turned on me for some unknown reason and my life became a living hell. Eventually, I was so stressed that I started showing physical signs of depression - started with getting nausious at the thought of going to school, led to a full blown case of Shingles - AT 12!!

srmom, pretty much the same thing happened to me, at around the same age. The difference is that based on the experiences I had to deal with in life up to that point, as well as my parents also setting a tone of personal responsibility for me, my reactions/actions in the situation were different. And again, I think this is where Dr. Phil is talking about establishing "coping mechanisms" A good example from personal experience that I have is in high school when I was marked wrong on a particular question on an exam, as it was written I answered the question correctly, but when I brought this up to the teacher was told that is not what she meant. Well it's not my responsibility to guess what she means vs. what she wrote on a test. When she proved to be combative and rude with respect to giving me my proper grade, I went above her head. Ultimately, my grade was changed. And guess what, my parents never knew about the situation. I didn't need to go to them and complain, hope that they seek action, etc. because my parents not only taught me right from wrong, but they also taught me how to address conflict/issues/the world. Now do I think this is similar to the cases being discussed, but that is what is what I mean by manning up/being an active agent/etc.

[srmom]

If all the parents did was complain and wait, they didn't do nearly enough. I wager that most of these kids have inadequate coping skills because their parents have provided inadequate coping mechanisms. Kids are a reflection of their environments

So, I guess at 12, I was expected to have "adequate coping skills" and my parents did a poor job raising me. I'll be sure to let them know.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by srmom

So, I guess at 12, I was expected to have "adequate coping skills" and my parents did a poor job raising me. I'll be sure to let them know.

Definitely let them know because the coping mechanisms they were supposed to provide come BEFORE you develop adequate coping skills. Get the order straight.

And let us know how your talk with your parents turns out.

[AOII Angel]

I was lucky I guess. One girl tried to bully me in third grade and wouldn't let me join her clique but she'd been held back from the fourth grade, and I didn't want to be friends with a dumb girl! After that, I was significantly taller than everyone else and people were always afraid of me, though I would never have been mean to someone purposely. It worked out well.