Where are all the Potential PNMs?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by carnation

You know who I feel sorry for? The girls who are from non-Greek families or small towns who've been to Orientation at their universities and gotten their Go Greek materials and desperately want to be Greek and don't even know where to start. Some of these girls would make fabulous members. They've asked dozens of women if they're alums but so far, no luck.

This is so true.


Also, I find that the SEC PNMs who come here looking for rec help are the ones who are the LEAST well-conected (maybe from a small town, 1st generation college student, etc). They're the girls who most likely HAVE exhausted all of the avenues we talk about in terms of finding them.

In terms of helping girls with recs, I am a little nicer than others in that I have directed PNMs to an APH or alumna chapter in her area if she PMed me about needing to find one. I feel like it helps a tad, but it puts the "ball" in their court and requires them to make contact and such. I won't, however, write one for a girl I do not know.

[chickenoodle]

Originally Posted by Zillini

In essence a Rec is telling a Chapter that not only do I believe this young woman would be a good member, but it says that I would be happy to have her as my sister.
My 2 cents.

Since beginning my inquiry into recruitment and sorority, I've always viewed sorority recs the same as job application recs. You don't just walk up (or e-mail, etc) a complete stranger and ask for a recommendation letter when applying for your dream job. It seems like common sense.

In reference to what Zillini is saying, my boyfriend's mother talked to me at length about what it means to be in a sorority, the type of committment, etc. When she offered to write a rec for me, I felt so (I know it's cheesy, brace yourself) honored. This accomplished woman, who loved her sorority immensely, wanted me as her sister.

So... we'll see what happens.

[libelle]

Carnation made a very good point. I have been the rec chair for my alumnae chapter for several years. I have yet to be asked by a local PNM to write a letter. However, I have written several for relatives and family friends from the south. In fact one of the reasons I started to visit GreekChat was due to requests for recs for SEC schools.

Our local NPC alumnae chapter is not helpful. A phone number is listed on the NPC site but the group does not and has no interest in assisting PNMS with recs. It would be difficult for a PNM to identify the appropriate contacts for most NPC groups via the web unless she searched the individual NPC web sites. As per a separate thread, some groups make this information more easily available than others. That said, if a PNM contacted me, I know local alumnae of about 1/2 the NPC groups from other volunteer work that I do. Many of these do not have an alumnae chapter in our area so again it would be very challenging to find an alumna to write a rec.

I encourage PNMs to work through their personal contacts, check the local NPC group via the NPC web site, search for the local alumnae chapter contact info via the group's (inter)national website , etc. Once you find a few alumnae they can probably link you with friends who are alumnae of other groups.

Good luck, PNMs!

[UGAalum94]

I make sure when I do recs that I'm completely honest about how well I actually know the PNM and where my info is coming from. The chapter can do with that information what they will.

I think assessing character in 18 year olds is pretty complicated, and while I do my best to spare chapters any difficulties by providing as much information as I can, to take too much responsibility for a girl's future behavior would make writing RIFs really hard for me. It may be a peril of teaching high school, but I hear about enough good girls with no signs of problems who go kind of wild freshman year frequently enough to know that what I see of them and the general consensus of adults in a girl's hometown is going to miss the mark in a small percentage of cases.

I'm not saying this to make the argument that it doesn't matter anyway, so recommend strangers or even that you should write them in cases when your instincts tell you that you shouldn't, like Zillini mentions. I just mean that even when you do know people well at this age, knowing what they are likely to do in the future is complicated.

And, I understood that the reason that it was kind of okay to ask strangers for recs was because that person had resources to find other alumnae who would actually know the girl. But maybe I'm wrong.

I think that many of our active alumnae networks are too small to really do recs only for people we knew perfectly. We'd miss too many great girls. Sometimes we're better off offering the imperfect information that we do have to offer what assistance we can.

[baci]

I live in a very large, major city in the south and I can tell you finding greeks can be extremely difficicult. The alum groups are hard to contact and receive responses from. Many do not respond at all. It seems like alums are not very active in my area. You would think there would be numerous Greeks out there and that it would be very easy to find alums to help, but it is not. Just because you live in a very large city it can be just as tough as a very remote town. It is tough for a PNM to get help - very tough. I have seen some ask numerous people and still come up empty-handed.

I am not one to get behind recommending someone if you do not know them. What is the point? You write a solid rec because you know the young woman and believe in them as a strong candidate for membership.

I often wonder if there is a better system. If we state that you need recs for every house it really puts out a false message. I know I don't want to read a rec that means very little just so a PNM says she has a rec to house X for the sake of having it. Maybe a personal rec may mean more from a teacher than from a stranger trying to speak on the PNM's behalf.

[pam713]

Our town has a great panhellenic group and many active alumnae. The problem is they all seem to be from the same handful of sororities. My daughter could get lots of recs for those groups, but the three that we don't have just don't seem to be on anyone's radar. She really wants to keep an open mind and doesn't want her pledge class to be full of the same girls she went to high school with but everyone just assumes she wouldn't want to join those groups anyway. On the flip side, I sure wouldn't want a stranger having all that personal information about my daughter that she would need to write a rec.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by pam713

Our town has a great panhellenic group and many active alumnae. The problem is they all seem to be from the same handful of sororities. My daughter could get lots of recs for those groups, but the three that we don't have just don't seem to be on anyone's radar. She really wants to keep an open mind and doesn't want her pledge class to be full of the same girls she went to high school with but everyone just assumes she wouldn't want to join those groups anyway. On the flip side, I sure wouldn't want a stranger having all that personal information about my daughter that she would need to write a rec.

With the exception of GPA and test scores if that's something you're giving out, I'd be really surprised if the information needed to do a rec isn't already publicly available someplace. I'm not saying this to freak you out, but if your daughters activities are in the high school yearbook and your name and address are in the phone book, and your daughter has lived a normal social life in your town, there's not a lot of super private information that this stranger is going to need.

And if you think about, they're sending all this information to strangers anyway.

[Tropical_Dancer]

To the helpful posters talking about my sister, I wasnt solicitating recs on GC, I guess I was just venting my frustration. She seems to have an idealized notion of recruitment and with regards to recs, I have treid to help her out, but by helping she thinks I will do it for her which I will not do.

My school is alot different than UF and although I can help with my org and possibly 1-2 others, I cant ( and wont) do it for her. I helped her find the alumnae panhellenic blog site but it still seems that she is just waiting for me to do it for her. Which is really starting to get on my nerves.

[Zillini]

Here is something I heard recently at our Convention from a collegian, an upcoming senior if I'm not mistaken. She came from a small rural area and had few if any GLO alums available. On top of that she was going to school in another state. She said she went to the various GLO's I/natl websites looking for alum associations.

Since there were none in her area, she looked for large active associations, like if they had webpages that were recently updated, had calendars of upcoming events, etc. It didn't matter if it was several states away, she contacted them asking if they could help. She said several were very helpful, digging through their contacts and friends to connect her with women.

Though it's worth pointing out this young woman realized her situation and started her search very early, something like a year ahead of time. She had plenty of time to contact the alums she ultimately found, develop email relationships, make phone calls, and even drove a couple of hours for face-to-face meetings.

[AnchorAlumna]

I've had an interest in doing recs since I was in college - don't know why, it's some obsessive desire to fill out forms!

Recruitment is a crazy time, especially if it's a very competitive school. You have chapters pledge girls they had no original intention of pledging...cut girls that nobody can remember...drop girls that nobody voted against...no matter how many times it's written here or discussed girl-to-girl, it's STILL the CHAPTER'S RESPONSIBILITY to get a rec.

Yes, I still believe that. A chapter has years to build up a network of alumnae contacts. If the sponsorship officer is doing her job, and her committee is helping her, there's no reason they can't find an alum sponsor 70 to 85% of the time. The PNM should not have to feel like it's all on her!

The other 30 to 15% of the time? That would be the gals from small towns with no nearby alum...from faraway states...military families who move a lot...100% is idea, but it's never going to happen.

So....you do the best you can, and leave the rest to the chapter to judge.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

No matter how many times it's written here or discussed girl-to-girl, it's STILL the CHAPTER'S RESPONSIBILITY to get a rec.

Yes, I still believe that. A chapter has years to build up a network of alumnae contacts. If the sponsorship officer is doing her job, and her committee is helping her, there's no reason they can't find an alum sponsor 70 to 85% of the time. The PNM should not have to feel like it's all on her!


So....you do the best you can, and leave the rest to the chapter to judge.

I know that all of the SEC school's Panhellenic websites say "it is the CHAPTER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO GET RECS."

However, I find that in most cases (and this has been confirmed by several SEC GCers), the chapter IS NOT going to do it.

Sure, they'll do it for some of the girls, but think about how many PNMs there are. They just can't find one for everyone.

That's where finding them yourself comes in.

Also, I find that MOST of the girls who rush at the bigger SEC schools know the "inside scoop" in terms of the chapter securing recs. So they already know to try and get them.

Unforunately, the girls who are not "in the know" (1st generation college students, small town girls, etc) tend to actually believe the official word from Panhellenic and think that every chapter is going to take care of it and they don't need to worry about it.

I'd imagine that these are the girls who get cut the heaviest. This is part of the reason why I WISH that some of the school's Panhellenics would start just being honest with PNMs and saying something like "Chapter can't secure recs for every girl, so try your best to secure them on your own."

[FSUZeta]

while it is stated that it ultimately is the chapters responsibility to find a recommendation for a pnm, i see that happening for girls who are offered bids and who did not have a rec. prior to recruitment starting.

pnms without recs. in a competitive recruitment at a popular(with the pnms)house, often do not fair so well.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

pnms without recs. in a competitive recruitment at a popular(with the pnms)house, often do not fair so well.

Very true, but PNMs WITH recs often don't fare well, either.

As we all know, having a rec, like being a legacy, is a guarantee of nothing.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I've had an interest in doing recs since I was in college - don't know why, it's some obsessive desire to fill out forms!

Recruitment is a crazy time, especially if it's a very competitive school. You have chapters pledge girls they had no original intention of pledging...cut girls that nobody can remember...drop girls that nobody voted against...no matter how many times it's written here or discussed girl-to-girl, it's STILL the CHAPTER'S RESPONSIBILITY to get a rec.

Yes, I still believe that. A chapter has years to build up a network of alumnae contacts. If the sponsorship officer is doing her job, and her committee is helping her, there's no reason they can't find an alum sponsor 70 to 85% of the time. The PNM should not have to feel like it's all on her!

The other 30 to 15% of the time? That would be the gals from small towns with no nearby alum...from faraway states...military families who move a lot...100% is idea, but it's never going to happen.

So....you do the best you can, and leave the rest to the chapter to judge.

While I agree with you in theory, reality can be quite different -- at least for a large SEC campus. Let's look at some real life #'s from 2008 at Bama. There were roughly 1600 PNMs. My chapter received Recs on about 1000 of these women, leaving 600 without. For the chapter to find 75% of the missing Recs, that's still 450 Recs we would need to track down.

Also keep in mind that the majority of PNMs didn't start signing up for Recruitment until the about mid June, plus they have right up until the night before Recruitment starts to sign up. What's known as the "Rec flood" starts in July. So if a chapter were responsible for finding Recs, there's no point in even starting until at least mid to late July. That would leave only a very few weeks to track down those 450 Recs

Considering that most of PNMs from Alabama and the surrounding states know the importance of Recs on this campus, it's pretty fair to say the majority of those PNMs without are from a few states away. Yes we have built up a network of known alumnae who we can call for help out of the blue, but I'm sorry to say our network doesn't extend that far.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by Smile_Awhile

A bit off topic, but I noticed some posts mentioning that there must be a rec in place for a PNM to be extended a bid. This may venture into MS for some groups, so if it does, I understand that I can't know. But is this required by some sororities? Or is it only for larger chapters at bigger schools?

Personally, my chapter wouldn't know what to do with a rec. We might have seen one or two,and I know we've seen legacy introductions, but other than that it just doesn't happen.

I PMed you.