Where are all the Potential PNMs?

[Zillini]

I confess that personal experience has jaded me. One of my first years being involved as an alum a collegian begged me to write a Rec for her "rush crush" who didn't have one. I did and the girl ended up becoming a member. I spent the next 4 years with that girl in standards for behavior, grades (despite a fabulous HS GPA), finances, everything imaginable and I felt personally responsible. It wasn't until later the thought occurred to me that perhaps this was the reason she was unable to find an alum to write her a Rec who actually knew her. You never know.

I vowed to never again write a Rec for someone I had never met. In essence a Rec is telling a Chapter that not only do I believe this young woman would be a good member, but it says that I would be happy to have her as my sister. How can I say that about someone I've never met and have no idea what her character is like? Resumes don't say squat about a person's personality.

I know I've probably let one bad apple spoil the whole bushel. I'm sure that the vast majority of PNMs are nice, sweet, smart, funny, etc. But I'm just not willing to put my reputation on the line like that for someone I don't know ever again -- even for an info only Rec.

My 2 cents.

[AnchorAlumna]

I know that some of our chapters insist that a sponsor personally know the PNM. But frankly, we simply do not have enough alumnae in our state to require that.

Heck, I've lived in my town for 40+ years, and I don't know everybody. But I do my best to find somebody who knows the PNM, or at least her family, and can tell me about them.

I will echo Zillini in one aspect: if you have an alumna reluctant to write a sponsor form for a particular girl, don't try to change her mind. I've had to do that twice (persuade an alum to change her mind because a sister fell in love with a rush crush), and they both ended badly.

I've also seen chapters totally ignore "no" recs - to their regret.

[carnation]

You know who I feel sorry for? The girls who are from non-Greek families or small towns who've been to Orientation at their universities and gotten their Go Greek materials and desperately want to be Greek and don't even know where to start. Some of these girls would make fabulous members. They've asked dozens of women if they're alums but so far, no luck. Oddly enough- in this large town I live in, asking teachers used to net few results because so many had attended 1 of the 2 colleges in town; 1 with no Greeks, the other without national Greeks until recently. Especially at the county schools, the PNMs were desperate.

Anyway, many of these girls may be cut heavily after 1st and 2nd parties at the big universities because cuts are so heavy then and these girls don't have the social network that others have. PNMs, if you're reading this, please try to use every avenue possible to get recs; maybe the women at www.npcwomen.org can help you locate alums. Whatever you do, don't sit back and give up!

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by carnation

You know who I feel sorry for? The girls who are from non-Greek families or small towns who've been to Orientation at their universities and gotten their Go Greek materials and desperately want to be Greek and don't even know where to start. Some of these girls would make fabulous members. They've asked dozens of women if they're alums but so far, no luck. Oddly enough- in this large town I live in, asking teachers used to net few results because so many had attended 1 of the 2 colleges in town; 1 with no Greeks, the other without national Greeks until recently. Especially at the county schools, the PNMs were desperate.

Anyway, many of these girls may be cut heavily after 1st and 2nd parties at the big universities because cuts are so heavy then and these girls don't have the social network that others have. PNMs, if you're reading this, please try to use every avenue possible to get recs; maybe the women at www.npcwomen.org can help you locate alums. Whatever you do, don't sit back and give up!

I completely agree. I get tired of people on here saying, "Go ask your alumnae panhellenic," or "ask your teachers." In my small little town, ONE, yes, ONE teacher/person went to a sorority. We currently have a total of 3 people either in a sorority or who have just left college. But, since the other girl and I live in in other towns, it's back to the same ONE person in the entire county... So,

Sometimes, there just ISN'T anyone to write a rec. And, people don't seem to understand what it is like to go down every single avenue only to find NO ONE who is in a sorority. Rural areas don't have a ton of alumnae.

So, I am not as hard on girls who come here looking for info on recs. I have even written a rec for a girl in the same situation I faced when rushing.

Back then, I called the headquarters of the groups to get more info on trying to find alumnae in my area. Some were nice. Some actually told me, "If Ole Miss wants you, they will find a rec FOR you. But, we will not help you find an alumna. Bye." (I still remember that bit of unkindness today.)

Point is, there are girls who just have very few options when it comes to recs. I think it almost amounts to a bit of an unfair advantage for girls in more urban areas with PA to help them out.

I just see no need to be totally against people seeking help to secure a rec. They just need to be nice, discreet, and not stupid about it. I can always point them in the direction of someone in their area. And, honestly, I don't see why more people can't do the same! It takes two or three minutes to look up a key woman for the area...

ETA: The girl I wrote a rec for??? Not only joined, but has become a distinguished member and officer. See? Not every PNM is stupid and evil... Now, if the PNM is from, say, Dallas or Nashville proper, then I have issues with her finding a rec. But, chick from Podunk, TN? That is a situation I would consider helping...

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

I completely agree. I get tired of people on here saying, "Go ask your alumnae panhellenic," or "ask your teachers." In my small little town, ONE, yes, ONE teacher/person went to a sorority. We currently have a total of 3 people either in a sorority or who have just left college. But, since the other girl and I live in in other towns, it's back to the same ONE person in the entire county... So,

Sometimes, there just ISN'T anyone to write a rec. And, people don't seem to understand what it is like to go down every single avenue only to find NO ONE who is in a sorority. Rural areas don't have a ton of alumnae.

So, I am not as hard on girls who come here looking for info on recs. I have even written a rec for a girl in the same situation I faced when rushing.

Back then, I called the headquarters of the groups to get more info on trying to find alumnae in my area. Some were nice. Some actually told me, "If Ole Miss wants you, they will find a rec FOR you. But, we will not help you find an alumna. Bye." (I still remember that bit of unkindness today.)

Point is, there are girls who just have very few options when it comes to recs. I think it almost amounts to a bit of an unfair advantage for girls in more urban areas with PA to help them out.

I just see no need to be totally against people seeking help to secure a rec. They just need to be nice, discreet, and not stupid about it. I can always point them in the direction of someone in their area. And, honestly, I don't see why more people can't do the same! It takes two or three minutes to look up a key woman for the area...

ETA: The girl I wrote a rec for??? Not only joined, but has become a distinguished member and officer. See? Not every PNM is stupid and evil... Now, if the PNM is from, say, Dallas or Nashville proper, then I have issues with her finding a rec. But, chick from Podunk, TN? That is a situation I would consider helping...

Tippiechick, carnation, and others: I agree with carnation's post and what several others have said. I do fear that a lot of people are misled by their metro area experiences and have no idea at all what very small town rural life is like. Plenty of young women from tiny towns would indeed make great members. . . .

ETA: <originally posted by carnation: You know who I feel sorry for? The girls who are from non-Greek families or small towns who've been to Orientation at their universities and gotten their Go Greek materials and desperately want to be Greek and don't even know where to start. Some of these girls would make fabulous members. They've asked dozens of women if they're alums but so far, no luck. . . . >

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by carnation

You know who I feel sorry for? The girls who are from non-Greek families or small towns who've been to Orientation at their universities and gotten their Go Greek materials and desperately want to be Greek and don't even know where to start. Some of these girls would make fabulous members. They've asked dozens of women if they're alums but so far, no luck.

This is so true.


Also, I find that the SEC PNMs who come here looking for rec help are the ones who are the LEAST well-conected (maybe from a small town, 1st generation college student, etc). They're the girls who most likely HAVE exhausted all of the avenues we talk about in terms of finding them.

In terms of helping girls with recs, I am a little nicer than others in that I have directed PNMs to an APH or alumna chapter in her area if she PMed me about needing to find one. I feel like it helps a tad, but it puts the "ball" in their court and requires them to make contact and such. I won't, however, write one for a girl I do not know.

[chickenoodle]

Originally Posted by Zillini

In essence a Rec is telling a Chapter that not only do I believe this young woman would be a good member, but it says that I would be happy to have her as my sister.
My 2 cents.

Since beginning my inquiry into recruitment and sorority, I've always viewed sorority recs the same as job application recs. You don't just walk up (or e-mail, etc) a complete stranger and ask for a recommendation letter when applying for your dream job. It seems like common sense.

In reference to what Zillini is saying, my boyfriend's mother talked to me at length about what it means to be in a sorority, the type of committment, etc. When she offered to write a rec for me, I felt so (I know it's cheesy, brace yourself) honored. This accomplished woman, who loved her sorority immensely, wanted me as her sister.

So... we'll see what happens.

[libelle]

Carnation made a very good point. I have been the rec chair for my alumnae chapter for several years. I have yet to be asked by a local PNM to write a letter. However, I have written several for relatives and family friends from the south. In fact one of the reasons I started to visit GreekChat was due to requests for recs for SEC schools.

Our local NPC alumnae chapter is not helpful. A phone number is listed on the NPC site but the group does not and has no interest in assisting PNMS with recs. It would be difficult for a PNM to identify the appropriate contacts for most NPC groups via the web unless she searched the individual NPC web sites. As per a separate thread, some groups make this information more easily available than others. That said, if a PNM contacted me, I know local alumnae of about 1/2 the NPC groups from other volunteer work that I do. Many of these do not have an alumnae chapter in our area so again it would be very challenging to find an alumna to write a rec.

I encourage PNMs to work through their personal contacts, check the local NPC group via the NPC web site, search for the local alumnae chapter contact info via the group's (inter)national website , etc. Once you find a few alumnae they can probably link you with friends who are alumnae of other groups.

Good luck, PNMs!

[UGAalum94]

I make sure when I do recs that I'm completely honest about how well I actually know the PNM and where my info is coming from. The chapter can do with that information what they will.

I think assessing character in 18 year olds is pretty complicated, and while I do my best to spare chapters any difficulties by providing as much information as I can, to take too much responsibility for a girl's future behavior would make writing RIFs really hard for me. It may be a peril of teaching high school, but I hear about enough good girls with no signs of problems who go kind of wild freshman year frequently enough to know that what I see of them and the general consensus of adults in a girl's hometown is going to miss the mark in a small percentage of cases.

I'm not saying this to make the argument that it doesn't matter anyway, so recommend strangers or even that you should write them in cases when your instincts tell you that you shouldn't, like Zillini mentions. I just mean that even when you do know people well at this age, knowing what they are likely to do in the future is complicated.

And, I understood that the reason that it was kind of okay to ask strangers for recs was because that person had resources to find other alumnae who would actually know the girl. But maybe I'm wrong.

I think that many of our active alumnae networks are too small to really do recs only for people we knew perfectly. We'd miss too many great girls. Sometimes we're better off offering the imperfect information that we do have to offer what assistance we can.