government mandated slavery

[XSK_Diamond]

I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case in practice. In order for Veterans to get health care via the VA, they have to have served for at least 24 months. I served for over a year in the military before I had to be discharged, and even though I got an Honorable Discharge and was never in trouble, because I didn't make it 24 months, I can't be seen at the VA hospitals or clinics.

Besides getting to use the GI Bill funds I'd paid into that system up until I got out (which wasn't much money), I have not received any other benefit from my military service. Not a thing because of the 24 month rule. Basically, the time I served counts for nothing and my contribution means nothing because it fell short of some arbitrary number. It's ironic that I saw this thread and am posting on Veteran's Day.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

^^^Veterans alone need help. I was told by a worker at the VA saying they are severely understaffed and other veterans from previous wars are aging and need more assistance... And let us not forget about the mental health debilitation these vets face.

Personally, if they serve this country and fight for it, they DESERVE to get all the healthcare they need!!!

[epchick]

Originally Posted by XSK_Diamond

I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case in practice. In order for Veterans to get health care via the VA, they have to have served for at least 24 months. I served for over a year in the military before I had to be discharged, and even though I got an Honorable Discharge and was never in trouble, because I didn't make it 24 months, I can't be seen at the VA hospitals or clinics.

Besides getting to use the GI Bill funds I'd paid into that system up until I got out (which wasn't much money), I have not received any other benefit from my military service. Not a thing because of the 24 month rule. Basically, the time I served counts for nothing and my contribution means nothing because it fell short of some arbitrary number. It's ironic that I saw this thread and am posting on Veteran's Day.

Wow are you serious? That sucks!! Although I will say, if my dad's experiences at VA are like other people's experiences at other VA's then having health benefits at VA isn't anything to want.

My dad was a Vietnam vet who got all his injuries from his time in the army. He still suffers from the effects of Agent Orange, and has had multiple surgeries on his back & neck from all the years he was jumping out of planes. Lately my dad has been having severe pains & losing the feeling in his extremities, but the VA doctors don't do anything. They are constantly losing his paperwork, or postponing/cancelling doctor's appts.

When he had his back & neck surgery, he was having complications and so he tried to call the doctor. But the doctor had up & left for a "vacation" in Europe. The doctor didn't come back for 3 months, yet the whole time my dad was in pain & no other VA doctor would see him.

The whole VA system needs to be reworked.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by epchick

My dad was a Vietnam vet who got all his injuries from his time in the army. He still suffers from the effects of Agent Orange, and has had multiple surgeries on his back & neck from all the years he was jumping out of planes. Lately my dad has been having severe pains & losing the feeling in his extremities, but the VA doctors don't do anything. They are constantly losing his paperwork, or postponing/cancelling doctor's appts.

I'm so sorry to hear that! I can imagine it's not only painful but frustrating/infuriating.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by XSK_Diamond

I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case in practice. In order for Veterans to get health care via the VA, they have to have served for at least 24 months. I served for over a year in the military before I had to be discharged, and even though I got an Honorable Discharge and was never in trouble, because I didn't make it 24 months, I can't be seen at the VA hospitals or clinics.

Besides getting to use the GI Bill funds I'd paid into that system up until I got out (which wasn't much money), I have not received any other benefit from my military service. Not a thing because of the 24 month rule. Basically, the time I served counts for nothing and my contribution means nothing because it fell short of some arbitrary number. It's ironic that I saw this thread and am posting on Veteran's Day.

As usual, it sounds like folks want to cut corners after you all had to deal with some stuff. Be it on the ground, air or on the ocean. No matter, if you are hurt due to your service, you need commensurate healthcare... That's my opinion.

Originally Posted by epchick

My dad was a Vietnam vet who got all his injuries from his time in the army. He still suffers from the effects of Agent Orange, and has had multiple surgeries on his back & neck from all the years he was jumping out of planes. Lately my dad has been having severe pains & losing the feeling in his extremities, but the VA doctors don't do anything. They are constantly losing his paperwork, or postponing/cancelling doctor's appts.

The whole VA system needs to be reworked.

The VA is a hot ghetto mess... My uncle who did 2 tours in 'Nam, got Agent Oranged and now has mesothelioma... He was a bomb tech--so some of that was VX and Napalm...

Part of the problem is a lack of qualified healthcare personnel. No hospital has enough qualified personnel in the US. Not enough doctors, not enough nurses, not enough CNA's, not enough PA-C, not enough people, period...

And don't ask about mental health care. Hopefully folks don't hurt themselves or loved ones too badly...

The reason why is because of severe restrictions into who is accepted into healthcare school and costs to attend these schools. Believe me, the UW med school has asked me repeatedly to apply and I just do NOT want to do it because I just cannot be $150K+ more in debt. What for--I'm 40 years old? Why?

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by XSK_Diamond

I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case in practice. In order for Veterans to get health care via the VA, they have to have served for at least 24 months. I served for over a year in the military before I had to be discharged, and even though I got an Honorable Discharge and was never in trouble, because I didn't make it 24 months, I can't be seen at the VA hospitals or clinics.

Besides getting to use the GI Bill funds I'd paid into that system up until I got out (which wasn't much money), I have not received any other benefit from my military service. Not a thing because of the 24 month rule. Basically, the time I served counts for nothing and my contribution means nothing because it fell short of some arbitrary number. It's ironic that I saw this thread and am posting on Veteran's Day.

Have you questioned this? If my mother remembers correctly, he served 22 months - 10 in combat - and has received care at a VA, and already has "reservations" in the local National Cemetery.

[DGTess]

It depends not only on the length of time you spend in service, but your disability rating, and your category.

After 22 military years, I am 10% "disabled" and among the lowest categories for service at VA facilities -- in essence, cannot be seen. Someone who serves less time, but is injured severely, or has a "service-connected" disability of some percentage is higher on the priority list. Except for the highest priority cases, everyone is seen on a space-available basis. The limited appointments and beds go to the highest priority.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Have you questioned this? If my mother remembers correctly, he served 22 months - 10 in combat - and has received care at a VA, and already has "reservations" in the local National Cemetery.

For some crazy reason, I think it also depends on when they served? I don't think my father served longer than a year and a half, but he was in Southeast Asia during the late 60s. That said, he has cancer related to Agent Orange and sees a VA doctor for some things, and uses his civilian doctor for non AO-related things, as well as a second opinion. He's had a pretty good experience with our local clinic, but it's also in a major military area, so maybe that helps.

I do know that, depending on when you served, you only have to have had 90 days of active duty service to qualify for a VA loan.

[Scandia]

Encouraging people to volunteer is one thing. Requiring it is another story. Many of us (raises hand) are just not that good at locating and finding the places to volunteer at. There may be a transportation issue. Or a family issue. It is probably easier here in the USA, but in my old hometown it would have been a complete and total nightmare. I remember in my secondary school there was an excess of tutors and a dearth of pupils. I remember how tough it was at times to complete hours. I remember one time they called me wanting to get me to volunteer at the girls orphanage- I was home alone and there were no cars (nor did I have a license), yet they persisted. Another time they wanted me to cancel a dental appointment with little notice so that I could attend some service project- I said no.

This whole idea just makes me shudder. I'm pretty sure it would go smoother here where I now live given the opportunities- but back there given people's attitudes and the bureaucracy and disorganization and rampant nepotism, it would have been a complete and total catastrophe.

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally Posted by Scandia

Many of us (raises hand) are just not that good at locating and finding the places to volunteer at.

That's where the schools come in. As I stated previously, students can dedicate hours to helping to beautify the campus. High school students can also volunteer at the primary/elementary school(s) in the area to help with reading, cleaning, after-school care, etc. Students can also help their elderly/disabled neighbors care for their lawns, fold clothes, carrying groceries, etc.

There are SEVERAL things that can be considered community service which would not require travel outside of the neighborhood or school district.

[ASTalumna06]

I believe the people here who are against mandatory community service don’t think it’s a bad thing (otherwise I don’t think they’d be Greek!). Personally, I don’t think that it should be MANDATORY right now when there haven’t been any mass efforts to include community service in the national educational system up to this point. And while it might be completely feasible for one community to have programs like this, for another, the schools have books that haven’t been updated since the first President Bush was in office. Why put money toward an extra program when they’re not even up-to-date with the basics?

If you want to include community service in the process of learning, why not have community service-based field trips? Food drives? Small daily contributions from students to a local charity? A “buddy system” where freshmen are paired with upperclassmen who guide them through their first year at school?

Some students have so many extra-curriculars that they already have too much going on. Some students aren’t able to venture too far from home after school because of transportation issues. Some students are already too unmotivated to do school work. There are numerous reasons why making community service mandatory on a national level might not be the best idea right now.

And if you really want to get technical, the national government can’t make programs like this mandatory. They shouldn’t have a hand in education at all, but that’s a different argument for another day.

If you want to provide the option and offer incentives, I think that sounds like a marvelous idea. With the ‘$4000/100 hours community service’ program, you could also offer this to high school students in order to help them pay for college. Or you could have a plan where 100 hours in high school will get you $3000, and an additional 50 hours in college will get you another $1000. Whatever it happens to be, it doesn’t much matter… it should be an OPTION.

Because I know that I’d probably be one of those extremely busy high school kids adding on a few extra hours for each activity I did, since I can pretty much guarantee that there wouldn’t be a whole lot of people like RedefinedDiva to check up on my progress.

[ZTAMich]

Forget all this!

PUPPIES

[AGDee]

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

[Tinia2]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

^^^^Very well said AGDee. I agree with you.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

Yeah, this is fair and I mostly agree, but you're kind of presenting a false dilemma when you conflate "adjusting to new information" and "admitting mistakes" - in specific, there are definite and decided advantages to the President (nearly) never admitting a "mistake" in those precise terms while in office, while there are few tangible benefits to a mea culpa speech while in office.

Rigidity is the sign of a small mind, but the sign of flexibility (especially for the President) is certainly not apology. It's neither necessary nor sufficient. In that way, it's kind of a crappy standard to hold Bush to - I wouldn't expect Obama to go "whoops, some of my programs suck and/or are infeasible, time to back off those campaign promises - sorry!"

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

What new information do you think Obama has gotten that changed his mind?

I think it's hard to make the case that these changes are really based on information that he didn't know before. It just sounded better to express it one way for the campaign, but it's now unrealistic to deliver on. It happens every campaign, so I'm not trying to single Obama out. But I don't think we should praise it as a virtue in his case either.