Question About Quotas

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Would it look too ungrateful if you all put that info out there?

If you could figure out a tactful way to say, because we have deferred recruitment, we really only need authentic recommendations, rather than information about the PNMS.

Do most people who send the recs know when you all do recruitment? I know that sounds kind of dumb, but it really wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people who do batches of recs on recent graduates think in terms of sending them out in August (but at least those would be from people who actually know the PNMs).

Well - honestly we got so few recommendations that getting info-only ones wasn't a huge annoyance, just a bit of a let-down.

I think most people who sent recs realized when we did recruitment, but maybe didn't think through how that really works in practice.

[gee_ess]

In the alum world, it has been my experience that we are not always tuned in to the dates of recruitment, changes in recruitment formats, etc. Think about the elderly church lady who gladly writes recs. I am betting she is not up on recent protocol at the universities where she might send a rec.

Basically, alums are ready, willing, and able to write a rec when asked. This is something most are thrilled to do - recommend their own group. But, what the chapter does with those recs can vary from campus to campus and is very individualized (beyond the need to have them before offering a bid)

Trying to tell alums how and when to write a rec - beyond "do you or don't you recommend this girl?" is too much and provides too many variables. If you tell alums - we really don't need your rec unless you know the rushee personally, there will be all sorts of women trying to figure out if their rec is authentic or not, plus there will be some chapters who actually do need those info-only recs. I see lots of room for confusion and miscues. "Susie Q could have had a rec but the friend of her father's secretary was afraid they didn't want it since she didn't really know Susie Q very well."

Excess recs are not a problem in a chapter. They know how to sort through them and glean what they need or don't need. They also know how to interpret them based on what their recs require or don't require on the form. I totally understand the desire to improve the system, but from the alum end, is not the way to approach it. Again, too many variables.

Just my 2 cents.

[AnchorAlumna]

Good comments gee_ess!
I do know some of our alumnae, especially ones who initiated at a couple of chapters in particular, think you have to personally know a PNM to rec them.
Wrong!
There is no way alums of any group can personally know EVERY PNM...maybe that's true in a small town, but it's not going to fly in big or even medium-sized cities.
I have comfortably signed recs if I found someone else who was familiar with the family. I have even signed recs if I couldn't find anybody who knew them, but they looked good on paper.
After all....even the most highly recommended PNM, coming with personal recs from close friends and relatives, can screw up when she hits campus. We all know the straight-A student who slept off hangovers instead of attending class and got a choice reputation while getting those hangovers.
You never know.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

There's the just plain NO RIF, which is really unusual to get.

That's the truth. No Recs are a real rarity. Alums have to really, really, really think this PNM is bad to write a No Rec. Most times they'll just not write a Rec at all rather than sharing negative info with the chapter.

I've gotten a mere handful over my many years of advising. Why so few considering the 1,000's of women who have gone through our formal recruitment? The biggest concern I hear from alums is they are fearful it would get out that they No Rec'd a girl. They don't want to offend the parents, family, friends, etc of this girl if it becomes known the author was the reason why this girl got dropped.

FYI - We treat No Rec authors names as "classified information" for this reason. It's on a "need to know" basis and only the advisors and Recruitment officers need to know.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

In the alum world, it has been my experience that we are not always tuned in to the dates of recruitment, changes in recruitment formats, etc. Think about the elderly church lady who gladly writes recs. I am betting she is not up on recent protocol at the universities where she might send a rec.

Basically, alums are ready, willing, and able to write a rec when asked. This is something most are thrilled to do - recommend their own group. But, what the chapter does with those recs can vary from campus to campus and is very individualized (beyond the need to have them before offering a bid)

Trying to tell alums how and when to write a rec - beyond "do you or don't you recommend this girl?" is too much and provides too many variables. If you tell alums - we really don't need your rec unless you know the rushee personally, there will be all sorts of women trying to figure out if their rec is authentic or not, plus there will be some chapters who actually do need those info-only recs. I see lots of room for confusion and miscues. "Susie Q could have had a rec but the friend of her father's secretary was afraid they didn't want it since she didn't really know Susie Q very well."

Excess recs are not a problem in a chapter. They know how to sort through them and glean what they need or don't need. They also know how to interpret them based on what their recs require or don't require on the form. I totally understand the desire to improve the system, but from the alum end, is not the way to approach it. Again, too many variables.

Just my 2 cents.

I can understand what you are saying, and I don't have any expectations of chapters actually trying to be specific.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by Zillini

...No Recs are a real rarity. Alums have to really, really, really think this PNM is bad to write a No Rec. Most times they'll just not write a Rec at all rather than sharing negative info with the chapter....the biggest concern I hear from alums is they are fearful it would get out that they No Rec'd a girl. They don't want to offend the parents, family, friends, etc...

Wow, that IS a consideration, especially if there are several folks from the hometown in the chapter or advising. I hadn't thought about that.
Here's what I do when there is a concern: write the rec. Either DON"T sign it, or (now) check the box that says "I do not recommend" (or whatever it says...can't remember exactly what it says).
THEN I put a hand-written Post-It note saying "CALL ME FIRST" with my name and phone number.
That way, I can relay my concerns to the correct person...and it's not written down anywhere, so there is no chance of any libel issues.
Now...I have seen a chapter or two go ahead and pledge a girl despite (strong) warnings from an alum. In fact, I've done it - when the alum's concerns proved to be trivial.
But it is NOT something you want to do all the time. NOT a good way to get alumnae support!

[UGAalum94]

There's been one pnm that I didn't write a rec for because I had reservations about her as a person. I also knew she wasn't a good fit for the chapter at the campus where she was rushing, so it wasn't going to be much of an issue.

It wasn't a situation for which she requested a rec and I passive aggressively didn't do one; it was a situation in which I was writing recs for the girls from my hometown and I just didn't take the initiative to do one for her.

I can't really imagine a girl who I had reason to not recommend ever directly asking for one, but I think I would just decline, rather than have her think I send in a positive one when really I was hurting her chances.

ETA: It would take pretty high level of proof of bad acts before I would really no rec, maybe arrest or suspensions from school. I just can't imagine a girl with a really bad hometown reputation asking for one.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

ETA: It would take pretty high level of proof of bad acts before I would really no rec, maybe arrest or suspensions from school. I just can't imagine a girl with a really bad hometown reputation asking for one.

You'd be surprised. Some PNMs simply don't understand that their past bad acts can haunt them. It was just 1 DUI or only a 3 day suspension. What's the big deal? I'm not a bad person and it was soooooooooooo long ago, like last year!

That's not the norm, though I have heard of it happening. Most No Recs come from an alum who took it upon herself to inform the chapter after finding out the PNM was going through Recruitment. The PNM probably had no idea that alum was writing anything.

[carnation]

No recs are pretty rare in my experience. I've written ony two...one for a girl who was in the group of Scouts I took to Asia and the other was this scarily insane girl who was at our daughters' camp. My daughters wrote their only no-recs ever on that one too.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Zillini

You'd be surprised. Some PNMs simply don't understand that their past bad acts can haunt them. It was just 1 DUI or only a 3 day suspension. What's the big deal? I'm not a bad person and it was soooooooooooo long ago, like last year!

That's not the norm, though I have heard of it happening. Most No Recs come from an alum who took it upon herself to inform the chapter after finding out the PNM was going through Recruitment. The PNM probably had no idea that alum was writing anything.

Originally Posted by carnation

No recs are pretty rare in my experience. I've written ony two...one for a girl who was in the group of Scouts I took to Asia and the other was this scarily insane girl who was at our daughters' camp. My daughters wrote their only no-recs ever on that one too.

This make me think that a thread about "people that you have/would no rec" might be pretty interesting.

[Just interested]

Alright, I am going to through this out for discussion. What if you know someone is going elsewhere and absolutely has no interest in your group.and you don't want your girls to waste their time? Do you A. write the rec and say nothing B write the rec but tell them C No Rec them to force a cut

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Just interested

Alright, I am going to through this out for discussion. What if you know someone is going elsewhere and absolutely has no interest in your group.and you don't want your girls to waste their time? Do you A. write the rec and say nothing B write the rec but tell them C No Rec them to force a cut

What you have described is pretty close to the circumstance for which I just didn't write the rec at all. I figured it would sort itself out.

Now, if I actually liked the girl, but knew she was more interested in a different chapter, I might write a positive rec but tell them the circumstances of her connection to XYZ.

Some of what I want for PNMs that I know and like is simply for them to form a positive impression of my GLO, even if they end up with bids elsewhere. Not so much so they're all "zowza, UGAalum is even more awesome than I thought," but because it's a PR thing for the chapter to be well thought of. They have a better shot at being well thought of if they rush well. To rush well, they need info about the PNMs. So, I'd write a rec that let them rush well.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Just interested

Alright, I am going to through this out for discussion. What if you know someone is going elsewhere and absolutely has no interest in your group.and you don't want your girls to waste their time? Do you A. write the rec and say nothing B write the rec but tell them C No Rec them to force a cut

I think it would be a really rare circumstance for those conditions to be absolutely true. While I know a lot of women start our recruitment saying "I only want to be an XYZ", the reality, after they are cut from XYZ might be different. We see that all the time in recruitment threads. Women do sometimes change their minds during recruitment. I think, if she was someone I would want to be in my organization, I would write a positive rec.

[pinkyphimu]

Originally Posted by Just interested

Alright, I am going to through this out for discussion. What if you know someone is going elsewhere and absolutely has no interest in your group.and you don't want your girls to waste their time? Do you A. write the rec and say nothing B write the rec but tell them C No Rec them to force a cut

But we say all the time to keep your options open going into recruitment. Maybe XYZ drops her, too. What if she gets to school and decides that she hates every girl in XYZ and would rather slit her wrists than join? Then what? I would definately never write that she is more interested in another chapter. Keep it positive and about the PNM.

[UGAalum94]

My guess is that Just Interested has in mind the jerk girl who has to tell everyone how she only has eyes for certain groups and that crosses the line into rudeness in her attitude toward others. She's the PNM who is likely to ask to use the restroom during your group's party and stay gone the whole time to telegraph her disinterest (despite having opportunities to use the restroom between events).

In that case, you might be think, no rec her so she's gone early and let them focus on girls who would be worth rushing.

Personally, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want to deprive the chapter of deciding to.

ETA: when I said I might mention her interest in my rec for a girl I did like, it would just be so the chapter would have a realistic understanding, not so they'd cut her. Maybe like a comment, "Suzy PNM has several friends in XYZ but I hope you all make her feel equally at home." If the chapter has to release someone, I'd rather they keep girls with genuinely open minds or at least girls who hadn't already revealed their biases. If release figures turn it into a guessing game, I'd want the chapter to have the most information.

But honestly, even in cases where I suspected a lack of genuine interest, I never said anything in the rec. I have the same attitude of wait and see how recruitment actually goes. If she's likely to be a great member, that's what is really need to know.