Ole Miss drops GPA exceptions for rush

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

Minimum requirements to join organization, get a job, get accepted to college, etc are a way of life. I don't see the big discrimination here...

But how often do you hear of people not getting jobs because of a low GPA (when everything else was OK)? Most places care far more about experience.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

But how often do you hear of people not getting jobs because of a low GPA (when everything else was OK)? Most places care far more about experience.

I don't know about jobs, but most academic institutions, where they are looking for measure of continued academic success have minimums for the next level.

Are you really advocating that GLOs have no minimum standards for GPA?

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I don't know about jobs, but most academic institutions, where they are looking for measure of continued academic success have minimums for the next level.

Are you really advocating that GLOs have no minimum standards for GPA?

No, again I said the 2.5 minimum GPA is reasonable. But I do think many people overestimate its importance.

I mean...what would really happen if those GPA standards were removed? If you still recruited students who were active on campus, good leaders, had a high amount of service hours, etc. what serious negative consequences could there be?

My chapter (the service GLO) has gone without GPA minimum requirements for a long time. We still managed to attract students who were academically successful anyway. Being active on campus and being successful academically is highly correlated in the first place. The few who did have really low GPAs, weren't any different from members who had high grades...in terms of participation, how well they did their jobs as officers, and how well they got along with other members.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

No, again I said the 2.5 minimum GPA is reasonable. But I do think many people overestimate its importance.

I mean...what would really happen if those GPA standards were removed? If you still recruited students who were active on campus, good leaders, had a high amount of service hours, etc. what serious negative consequences could there be?

My chapter (the service GLO) has gone without GPA minimum requirements for a long time. We still managed to attract students who were academically successful anyway. Being active on campus and being successful academically is highly correlated in the first place. The few who did have really low GPAs, weren't any different from members who had high grades...in terms of participation, how well they did their jobs as officers, and how well they got along with other members.

Did you all recruit first semester freshman?

I think that when you're taking in kids new to college, it's harder to know who is going to make it or not.

Once you can be sure someone's not going to flunk out and leave, I can see what you are saying.

I suspect that's why, back when we had initiation grades, I think they were lower than what you had to have to extend the bid. And I think, in some cases what it takes to stay in good standing with the organization is probably also lower than what they look for in a pledge.

I think the difference is that there's some washout/dropout factor that you're trying to control for in first semester students.

[gee_ess]

Okay, I will pull getting a job from my list as experience probably does count for more, However, I feel pretty confident that gpa plays a large role in several other selective processes.

[CBU Jeff]

I assume that's why most schools go to a deferred recruitment. They a given a chance to see if these PNM's can handle college academics, at least one semester. But I do have to agree with UGAalum94, it might control the drop rate.

[ajuhdg]

Thank you for diverting this topic from 'GPA standards as a way to keep out students with disabilities'. That is such a crock. Sigmadiva is right, learning disability does NOT equal dumb or low GPA.

Why do high schools/universities even have GPAs? It's a way for them to measure success, progress, and performance in the courses one attempts. We could probably do away with them, but with the natural competitive instinct 'Pass/Fail' would never fly.

Most organizations do have GPA standards...I believe all of us have an officer responsible for making sure grades are kept high, etc. too. I've seen some schools where a minimum is set, and then the sororities will make their own which exceed the school minimum.

I guess I just don't see what the big deal is.

[LAblondeGPhi]

I'm going to throw my support for the side that says this is NOT discrimination against students with learning disabilities. I am also of the opinion that if you have a GPA below 2.5 coming into college, there are some serious concerns about her ability to handle college academics.

Now, I empathize and understand the struggles associated with learning disabilities, but are there not varying levels of learning disabilities? Are there not some students who struggle and manage to get decent grades? Are there not students who seek treatment who get great grades, but with perhaps a little more effort than others? Absolutely. To lump all students with learning disabilities into one category seems unfair for some, and like an excuse for others. I would be money that there are plenty of students with a diagnosis and a decent GPA going through recruitment.

Another item I'd like clarified in this discussion is how Ole Miss handles their students with learning disabiltites. Do they give them a GPA break or exemption? Do they give them extra time on the tests or less coursework? What is the standard by which the university measures the success/acheivement of these special needs students? Shouldn't that be an allowable standard that Panhellenic could follow? Should these students' GPAs not get counted for their chapters' average GPA?

Perhaps this GPA requirement is best served on a case-by-case basis by Panhellenic. If you get diagnosed by something 2 weeks before the recruitment application forms are due.. maybe that would be a little fishy. There are plenty of doctors who have good intentions, are family friends, or are getting some pressure to help a good kid out by giving a diagnosis. If you have clearly been struggling with this for years and the university will give you certain GPA leeway, then fine. I do think there can be a certain culture of overdiagnosis and using ADD, ADHD, or others as a crutch when the problem may be something else.

To say that this is blanket discrimination, I think, is being oversensitive. There are many standards and minimum expectations set by the campus Panhellenics, NPC and by individual chapters, and if a chapter (or the Greek system as a whole) is going to be penalized (whether actually or by perception) for GPAs, then it's in their best intersted to uphold those standards. My point has a caveat if the university has specific GPA exceptions for these students.

[libelle]

At most universities and colleges, faculty provide accomodation to students with a documented learning disability. Accomodation includes extra time on an exam for dyslexia, an individual to read exam questions to a eyesight impaired student, a sign language translator for a hearing impaired student, etc. Accomodation helps level the playing field so that the disability's effect on a student's ability to learn and perform is reduced.

A student with a GPA < 2.5 needs to focus on her studies in order to land a good job, attend grad school etc. In fact, a student with a GPA < 3.0 should be more focused on academics too.

[WaterChild]

I think that there's nothing wrong with this at all.

If someone has a learning disability, they should have received the extra attention/time needed to earn above a 2.5 gpa in HIGH SCHOOL. They shouldn't expect even more special attention in college. Sure, some high schools don't have the resources to provide extra attention to help disabled students, but I think that most girls rushing at Ole Miss come from a different background than that. A 2.5 gpa is very low for high school. Many of you keep talking about how students should receive benefits and extra test time in college, and you make it seem like you don't realize that these students would have gotten the extra help in high school.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by WaterChild

I think that there's nothing wrong with this at all.

If someone has a learning disability, they should have received the extra attention/time needed to earn above a 2.5 gpa in HIGH SCHOOL. They shouldn't expect even more special attention in college. Sure, some high schools don't have the resources to provide extra attention to help disabled students, but I think that most girls rushing at Ole Miss come from a different background than that. A 2.5 gpa is very low for high school. Many of you keep talking about how students should receive benefits and extra test time in college, and you make it seem like you don't realize that these students would have gotten the extra help in high school.

Yes.

Extended test time, etc. was there in high school. Which is why it is there in college (the one I went to anyway).

But now I have another question: why in the world would anyone base anything in college (beyond admission to the college/university/program/magjor/whatever) base anything on something from high school?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

But now I have another question: why in the world would anyone base anything in college (beyond admission to the college/university/program/major/whatever) on something from high school?

This is one of the main reasons I like deferred rush.

Sometimes your performance in high school (good or bad) has NO relation to how you perform in college. Not most of the time, but sometimes.

Maybe Susie has a 4.0 because her parents did all her homework for her. When she gets to college, pledges, has to do her own work and promptly flunks out - taking your rituals and letters with her. (Unless she's pledging Chi Omega.)

[NutBrnHair]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

But now I have another question: why in the world would anyone base anything in college (beyond admission to the college/university/program/magjor/whatever) base anything on something from high school?

In my opinion, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

What an individual has done (or not done) in the first 18 years of life is significant.

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by WaterChild

. . . . If someone has a learning disability, they should have received the extra attention/time needed to earn above a 2.5 gpa in HIGH SCHOOL. They shouldn't expect even more special attention in college. Sure, some high schools don't have the resources to provide extra attention to help disabled students, but I think that most girls rushing at Ole Miss come from a different background than that. A 2.5 gpa is very low for high school. Many of you keep talking about how students should receive benefits and extra test time in college, and you make it seem like you don't realize that these students would have gotten the extra help in high school.

WaterChild -- and others -- colleges and universities are required by law to provide services and accommodations for students with disabilities, including those with learning disabilities. A question-and-answer overview of some of the major issues is available:

http://www.pacer.org/publications/adaqa/504.asp

This ^ is only one of many possible sources of information about the rights and responsibilities of postsecondary students with disabilities, and college / university services for them. There aren't necessarily easy one-size-fits-all
answers to each individual student's situation.

Yes, it's true that many students with disabilities receive needed services in high school and elementary school; however, they may also require services while in college.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by exlurker

WaterChild -- and others -- colleges and universities are required by law to provide services and accommodations for students with disabilities, including those with learning disabilities. A question-and-answer overview of some of the major issues is available:

http://www.pacer.org/publications/adaqa/504.asp

This ^ is only one of many possible sources of information about the rights and responsibilities of postsecondary students with disabilities, and college / university services for them. There aren't necessarily easy one-size-fits-all
answers to each individual student's situation.

Yes, it's true that many students with disabilities receive needed services in high school and elementary school; however, they may also require services while in college.

Yes...but when does it end? High school students who struggle because of a learning disability may get accepted to colleges because of this law...but what about when they graduate after being coddled and 'accommodated'? Are jobs expected to also have lower expectations? Sorry, but in the real world, you are judged on what you accomplish...and I would NOT want to hire someone who had been conditioned to strive for the bare minimum, or even below that, like many, many people with learning disabilities are.

I realize this is a law, and it's illegal for universities to discriminate. I just don't agree with it in conjunction with learning disabilities. Students who need that much special accommodation that they receive both special privileges (such as extra testing time) and STILL cannot maintain a 2.5 are in serious risk of not making it in the real world...without the stresses of a sorority added on.

I realize this sounds harsh. However...I've seen this attitude of "I have a learning disability, so I deserve an A without doing any work" in a lot of people, which is why I feel this way.