Spirituality and Character in Fraternities...

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

No, Tom, they weren't.

The earliest GLOs, starting with Phi Beta Kappa, were started with an Enlightenment, humanist or rationalist background. After all, the very motto of Phi Beta Kappa, "Philosophy, the Guide (Helmsman) of Life," is a challenge to the view that God, Scripture or Religion is the "Guide of Life." The earliest GLOs were cut from a similar Enlightenment/rationalist/Deist cloth. It wasn't until later that GLOs began to take on a more Christian, and later Jewish, focus.

And many GLOs were were specifically founded with a non-sectarian focus, seeking to overcome divisions based on religion.

What do you mean by your last sentence?

There I may disagree with you as most have a Religious of sort back ground in their Ritual and Tenents.

That is what they Were based on, not what goes on today?

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

BYXEagle - "sucks" what? I've always forbidden my children and students from saying "That sucks" because of the origin of the phrase. So I'm interested in the fact that you used it when discussing your Christian organization.
And, long story short, the conflict between the so-called Christian fraternities and traditional ones comes from any GLO acting holier-than-thou. Once you start deciding who is a Christian and who is not you are bound to engender ill-will. I think Christ-like humility would go a long way to fostering relationships with other groups.

Wait? Am I finally going to get an answer about why the phrase 'that sucks!' is so offensive in the US? I'm not being snarky, I really don't know.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

What do you mean by your last sentence?

There I may disagree with you as most have a Religious of sort back ground in their Ritual and Tenents.

That is what they Were based on, not what goes on today?

I could ask you the same thing -- I have no idea what you mean in your last sentence.

What I meant when I said "And many GLOs were were specifically founded with a non-sectarian focus, seeking to overcome divisions based on religion," was precisely that. Starting in the early 20th Century, a number of GLOs were founded on an explicitly non-sectarian basis, so that members of any religion (granted, at the time, that would mainly have meant Protestants, Catholics -- the two groups had little to do with each other then -- and Jews) could be members and could participate without either compromising their own religious values or feeling coerced into religious practices not their own.

And you may disagree if you wish, but the earliest Greek groups had a more philosophical basis as opposed to a religious basis. Your statement, to which I was responding, that all GLOs were founded with a religious background is, like most overgeneralizations, simply not true. Had you said many rather than all, there would be no disagreement.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by porkfriedrice

Wait? Am I finally going to get an answer about why the phrase 'that sucks!' is so offensive in the US? I'm not being snarky, I really don't know.

Oral sex? I always assumed that.

ETA: Hence, that "blows" being equivalent.

[SWTXBelle]

Yes, Drolefile, you WIN! Nicely worded, too.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Yes, Drolefile, you WIN! Nicely worded, too.

Ha ha, I was wondering if there was some deeper meaning there that I was missing.

[DSTCHAOS]

I love grape juice and thank God (in honor of this thread) for Welch.
I also love wine that tastes like it's straight from the grapevine.

I am humored that people use such a magnifying glass when looking at the lives of others. People in the Bible days drank in excess and did a lot of other things. I won't assume that the people who Christianity has touted as "holier than thou" were above the influence when it came to everything.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I love grape juice and thank God (in honor of this thread) for Welch.
I also love wine that tastes like it's straight from the grapevine.

I am humored that people use such a magnifying glass when looking at the lives of others. People in the Bible days drank in excess and did a lot of other things. I won't assume that the people who Christianity has touted as "holier than thou" were above the influence when it came to everything.

Oooooooh I think this is my number one pet peeve, people who think they're "holier than thou." I was just talking about this yesterday oooooooh I can't stand that!!! I can befriend just about anyone that is an overall good person, no matter what their religious affiliation is but if you constantly profess to have all the answers, criticize, ridicule, put down, judge, complain, and point out the faults of others (as if you have no faults...yeah right), I cannot be around you. Ooooooh...okay I've vented. That's my 2 cents.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Oooooooh I think this is my number one pet peeve, people who think they're "holier than thou." I was just talking about this yesterday oooooooh I can't stand that!!! I can befriend just about anyone that is an overall good person, no matter what their religious affiliation is but if you constantly profess to have all the answers, criticize, ridicule, put down, judge, complain, and point out the faults of others (as if you have no faults...yeah right), I cannot be around you. Ooooooh...okay I've vented. That's my 2 cents.

I can't stand overly critical people, in general, who pick apart everything all of the time.

But if someone is going to think they are better than everyone else, I prefer it to be for entertaining and perhaps provable things like intellect and not based on spirituality or religious value judgments.

[BlueNYC2]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

A student renounces his letters because he believes that Greekdom takes away from being spiritual

http://www.bet.com/News/GreekLifeGod...ionUnpublished

man, that dude was weak, thats all. and i hate when people confuse spirituality with religion. they are two TOTALLY different things. you can be spiritual with out being religious.

[BlueNYC2]

Originally Posted by BYXEagle

This brings up an issue I have wondered about. Many Christian fraternities have caught flack from regular fraternities for calling themselves Christian. Many fraternities say well we are built on Christian beliefs which is completely true. My response though is if you are offended by the fact you are Christian and we refer to ourselves as a Christian fraternity, then act like it. Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage makes you a car. So I have a kinda side question to this one. If you are Christian and in a regular GLO do you have a problem wearing a shirt that has questionable content on it.

well i cant comment for the other orgs...but Phi Beta Sigma does was founded on christian principles, but that by no means makes us a christian fraternity. we are a social fraternity. we have members of all faiths.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by BlueNYC2

man, that dude was weak, thats all. and i hate when people confuse spirituality with religion. they are two TOTALLY different things. you can be spiritual with out being religious.

And vice versa.

****

If your frat or sorors are out acting a fool, does that mean that the organization doesn't uphold certain standards and is conflicting with your lifestyle or faith? No.

If people are struggling with that, they are struggling with their own convictions and are weak. Don't blame that on religion or the organization. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself. If that means you still must disaffiliate, that's your business but don't try to attach your decision to everyone else's asses.

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I could ask you the same thing -- I have no idea what you mean in your last sentence.

What I meant when I said "And many GLOs were were specifically founded with a non-sectarian focus, seeking to overcome divisions based on religion," was precisely that. Starting in the early 20th Century, a number of GLOs were founded on an explicitly non-sectarian basis, so that members of any religion (granted, at the time, that would mainly have meant Protestants, Catholics -- the two groups had little to do with each other then -- and Jews) could be members and could participate without either compromising their own religious values or feeling coerced into religious practices not their own.

And you may disagree if you wish, but the earliest Greek groups had a more philosophical basis as opposed to a religious basis. Your statement, to which I was responding, that all GLOs were founded with a religious background is, like most overgeneralizations, simply not true. Had you said many rather than all, there would be no disagreement.

Great points, MysticCat. The only thing I'd add right now is that the founding of "explicitly non-sectarian" social GLOs began in the late 1800s, just a little before the "early 20th century." For example, say, Pi Lambda Phi. Admittedly, more were founded a few years later, in the time frame you mentioned.

[BlueNYC2]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

And vice versa.

****

If your frat or sorors are out acting a fool, does that mean that the organization doesn't uphold certain standards and is conflicting with your lifestyle or faith? No.

If people are struggling with that, they are struggling with their own convictions and are weak. Don't blame that on religion or the organization. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself. If that means you still must disaffiliate, that's your business but don't try to attach your decision to everyone else's asses.

EXACTAMUNDO!!! omg, this fool on facebook, got some note bout how the NPHC are sinners, we worship false gods and whole heap of other foolishness. shit was ridiculous. these religious zealots are impossible to debate with. they're right & we're wrong.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by BlueNYC2

man, that dude was weak, thats all. and i hate when people confuse spirituality with religion. they are two TOTALLY different things. you can be spiritual with out being religious.

I think Hatchett got to that dude and he's probably so happy right now that his movement to rid the world of GLO's made the news. IMO these people wake up one morning feeling guilty or someone has made them feel guilty about the time they spend serving others through their organizations (and I don't know why time spent serving others is not seen by some as God's work but I digress). Anyway they feel incredibly guilty because they don't know how to balance their time and someone ridicules them for not being in church more or for not spending as much time with their congregations, etc. etc. and instead of trying to balance their time better, they see it as a sign that they need to denounce their organizations to make more room for God. And some of them set out on a mission (Hatchett) to try and destroy greek life because they are so mad at themselves for their neglect. In reality, they're not mad at the orgs...they're mad at themselves because they couldn't balance their own lives.

I'm mad that they published those fools' websites though. They do not need any free publicity.