Observations

[PlainJane]

I'm not a member but I thought I could share a story. My father is a member of a fraternity. He pledge in the sixties and without going into details he did say that his process was physical but not brutal. He went on to say that he did become disturbed by the amount of violence that seems to have increased over the years from lines he has witnessed.He mentioned something about the younger generation become more susceptible to committ violence today. What I'm trying to say that even though you may not agree with MIP, maybe its a blessing in disguise and you may not even realize it.

[DoggyStyle82]

PLAINJANE:

Eveyones opinion is relative. I'm sure members 20 years before your father may have thought his pledge experience to be "excessive". The point is, is that there should be some define-able middle ground and not the elimination of time honored traditions and legitimate processes. As I have stated before, the increase in hazing has been excaserbated by intake, not muted.

[PlainJane]

Thats true too.

[Dvus4ever]

First, I would like to give respect to anyone that had the heart to become greek (regardless of how). But, I do understand the animosity stemming from the differences of the way some becomes a member. However, I do not believe anyone should be criticized. Once you become a member (i.e. family) of a greek organization, you are just that . . . family. A brother or sister. Not a step-sister or step-brother so to speak. I am not greek, but I am seeking my membership through grad chapter. And I have definitely been "told" about how I should have pledged. I have my reasons just like everyone else does. I however, have faith and trust in the greek community and believe that regardless of how someone is admitted that person is thoroughly investigated. To criticize because of the way they were admitted only criticizes the organizations. Why? If someone is paper or pledge . . . you . . . the greek still has to make the final decision as to whether that person becomes part of your family.

[pebbles_6]

Coleman Love to my Bruhs, Big OO-OOP to my Sorors...I guess my question or concern is how do we as Sorors, and Bruhs bridge the gap amongst ourselves? I mean, I PLEDGED alum chapter. Some of the processes might have changed in accordance with MIP but nonetheless, the things I keep hearing "old heads" saying they went through, I did too. And it hurts anytime someone (Soror or other Greek) consistently perpetuates the myth that those who cross through MIP are "not real" or "paper". I know this topic is probably discussed til people are blue in the face, but if we want progression collectively, we need to stand united in the BOND of Delta (Omega). Instead of making distinctions about who's real or not on the basis of intake, turn instead and look at who's financial. Look at who is still getting up at 5am for service projects and leading by example. Spend time trying to reactivate the inactive to the goals of our orgs. How do I feel about the MIP? I can only speak for what I experienced and I know that for a lifetime, my ls's and myself will be able to recall our shared trek to Deltahood and reflect on our humbling experiences. And that (as MasterCard states) is priceless. But if revamping the intake process is what it takes to get us on one accord as far as accepting one another as equals within our OWN orgs, I'm all for it, but I don't think that is as necessary as it is just for some to face the the wo(man) in the mirror and broaden their way of thinking. Just my .13 cents.

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"To DST, I will forever and always be true"

[reddnhott2020]

Hello
I am not greek merely an aspirant. But, I want to know if the greek world is so agaisnt, the MIP, and some members may not show "love" those who come in the "new school" was, are those interested persons supposed to not attempt entrance into the organization of their dreams, because of the MIP. Are those persons supposed to MAKE their BSs and BBs bring them in "ol skool". The persons interested have no control over the process, so why should they be treated any differently? I understand the merit of the "Ol Skool" methods, that is where you gain your sense of loyalty to the organization and to your future fellow members, and that process is what differentiates the nine organizations, but can a mere interestee due about the protocol?

What would be a good compromise?

[Lone Dog]

I know this topic has been hashed to death, but let me put my 11 in.....

Whether you pledge Que or come into Omega via MIP....you will pledge. Let me explain, say a prospective starts intake on a Sunday and is made a member the following Saturday. As soon as he puts on that Que 'nalia, or as soon as he lets out a ROOO in public.... someone will be in his grill chargin' him. Lord help him if he doesn't display his Principles or know his info. It's SOOO HARD to be Omega! He will earn those letters and constantly prove he deserves to wear them, or else he'll be stripped of them, as well as his pride. Omega men are brave and courageous men who fear no one or nothing but God Himself.

So, MIP can come in if they want, but if they reach for their financial card when a bruh is challenging them, he'll be receiving some uplift. Period. It's that simple. There are many ways TO Omega, but only one way INTO Omega....blood, sweat, and tears.

I will shut up after I say this: I was always told "It's harder to BE a bruh than it is to BECOME a bruh." And how true that rings. Think about this, you can't haze a member, only a prospective. So once you're in, whatcha gonna do?

Omega is NOT a violent frat. It wasn't founded on that and it doesn't condone it. HOWEVER, whether you came in MIP or pledged, don't disrespect your self or the frat by not exemplifying the qualities of an Omega man and not knowing detailed information on the very organization that you CHOSE to join. IT doesn't end when you cross the sands to Omega... it's just the beginning... PLEASE, whoever you are, don't come into this frat lukewarm and not ready to work.

TRUST ME, the road INTO Omega is HARD. No ifs, ands, or buts, about it. Be out or stay home...the choice is yours. Because as soon as you hit door, them tenacious porch dogs will get ta barkin'....know enough to avoid the bite.

ROOOOOOO


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T.J.
Da Nasty Lone Dog
1-Phi Omicron-SMR '00

[ShakespareDST]

Well said soror!

Originally posted by pebbles_6:
Coleman Love to my Bruhs, Big OO-OOP to my Sorors...I guess my question or concern is how do we as Sorors, and Bruhs bridge the gap amongst ourselves? I mean, I PLEDGED alum chapter. Some of the processes might have changed in accordance with MIP but nonetheless, the things I keep hearing "old heads" saying they went through, I did too. And it hurts anytime someone (Soror or other Greek) consistently perpetuates the myth that those who cross through MIP are "not real" or "paper". I know this topic is probably discussed til people are blue in the face, but if we want progression collectively, we need to stand united in the BOND of Delta (Omega). Instead of making distinctions about who's real or not on the basis of intake, turn instead and look at who's financial. Look at who is still getting up at 5am for service projects and leading by example. Spend time trying to reactivate the inactive to the goals of our orgs. How do I feel about the MIP? I can only speak for what I experienced and I know that for a lifetime, my ls's and myself will be able to recall our shared trek to Deltahood and reflect on our humbling experiences. And that (as MasterCard states) is priceless. But if revamping the intake process is what it takes to get us on one accord as far as accepting one another as equals within our OWN orgs, I'm all for it, but I don't think that is as necessary as it is just for some to face the the wo(man) in the mirror and broaden their way of thinking. Just my .13 cents.

[the411]

I like you, Lone Dog! You a-ight wit me!

OOP-ROO!

And I'm Out!



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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

[ChaosDST]

Originally posted by the411:
So, with that in mind, do you think it's possible for someone who wasn't pledged to pledge someone else? In other words, what about those chapters that are by-the-book (i.e. paper, cat, skaters, etc.) and ostracized by local collegiate chapters because of it? How can pledging become the new chapter trend if no one in the chapter has pledged? I know of chapters like this, but it's difficult to know whether or not someone who isn't a part of the chapter can step in to help out when the current chapter members are anti-pledging.

I just wanted to reply real quick:
I do NOT think someone who didn't pledge can pledge someone else. If you did not pledge, you can only IMAGINE what a pledge process should be...or you can only act on what you see or hear from others. This is how many chapters get in trouble...you can't do to others what was not done to you---chances are, you will take it too far and completely screw something up and/or the process will be a weak immitation.
If you do not have a COMPLETE view of pledging, and just listen to what others say, you will have no clue. As we all know, EVERYONE thinks they pledged, you will rarely find a Greek who says they didn't pledge---yes, more than half of them are lying, but....
If members of a chapter are anti-pledging, it is almost impossible for others to try to step in. Not pledging, or never being afforded the opportunity to pledge, are completely different from being "anti-pledging." *It's a shame, but we can't save the world*
Part of what MIP was trying to get rid of was the ridicule of newly inducted members who are made to feel as they skated or didn't pledge---to make processes more uniform---and cut down on hospital visits, too I guess. This isn't the remedy---but, this was part of the intention. Alright, enough rambling for Chaos.

[TLAW]

Though I don't mean to rehash an old topic, I have to put in my two cents worth; As someone peering on the outside in, I think I have some pertinent thoughts on the matter.
While surfing, I read about an issue concerning one of the Divine Nine orgs. The fraternity had been suspended for "hazing"; upon reinstatement of the charter, the Faculty Advisor oversaw the Intake process of a couple of new undergrads with high GPAs. Most of you can guess what happened next.
Of course, the old heads had crossed a couple guys underground.
They went via MIP too. Now, you had a fraternity with some pledging, and others who were MIP'd. You guys can only guess at the friction caused.
It all came to a head when a couple of the "reals" accosted a "paper" and tore his naila off his back - in public! The two "reals" were then kicked out of the frat for disrespecting a fellow member in public.
Most of you probably have heard of this story; some may even have seen this played out on your respective yards. It is a sad state of affairs.
I am not going to argue the merits of pledging vs Intake; however I will say that pledging can be a safe process. A little hardship never hurt anybody. I went to a military school overseas, and the rites of passage to seniority were rigorous. Straight hazing. We hated it, but the bonds live forever.
Now, when people die during pleging, we have to wonder if we've gone too far, and we shouldn't have to wonder too long.
At my school, what happened above is about to replayed almost scene to scene. We are about to reactivate one of our orgs, and the word is that some men have already been through a pledge process a couple of years previously.
I don't know if it not getting respect for reasons we don't have control over is worth it. Am I wrong for seriously not considering exhibiting interest for these reasons? Would you join an organization if knew there were underground pledges, and you had to do MIP? Am I being overly realistic?

[CrucialCrimson]

I know portions of this thread are old, but I had to comment on a couple of points - first the comment that hundreds of thousands of greeks were made each year with few incidents is RIDICULOUS - there are only a few hundred thousand greeks around, so how do you figure that so many were being made annually without serious incident. Another issue is that the dawn of MIP was not the demise of the pledge process - it was gradulally being degraded and bastardized - that was the biggest nail in the coffin in my opinion. Finally, I would love a process that was longer and slightly more challenging and open than the current three weeks, but I don't see it happening any time soon. My biggest complaint about MIP is the ridiculously large "lines" that are being made at the collegiate and alumnae level; as well as the alumnae chapters that seem to use intake as a biennial fundraiser, with no goal of or effort towards membership development. There are just too many people who have letters on their chest, but nothing in their hearts and you can't even really call them check writers because they don't even stay financial. I also think that it should be easier for a chapter to decline someone during the process as it is easier to be accepted for intake (relatively speaking).

[TLAW]

Another issue is that the dawn of MIP was not the demise of the pledge process - it was gradulally being degraded and bastardized - that was the biggest nail in the coffin in my opinion. Finally, I would love a process that was longer and slightly more challenging and open than the current three weeks, but I don't see it happening any time soon. My biggest complaint about MIP is the ridiculously large "lines" that are being made at the collegiate and alumnae level; as well as the alumnae chapters that seem to use intake as a biennial fundraiser, with no goal of or effort towards membership development. There are just too many people who have letters on their chest, but nothing in their hearts and you can't even really call them check writers because they don't even stay financial.


I agree with your comment, and wish some changes could be made. But, as I detailed earlier, the conflicts continue.

[TLAW]

Crucial, forgive me, but I didn't do the quote thing proprerly, so part of your post may seem like mine. My bad... didn't mean to plagrialize! LOL!!!

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by CrucialCrimson
I know portions of this thread are old, but I had to comment on a couple of points - first the comment that hundreds of thousands of greeks were made each year with few incidents is RIDICULOUS - there are only a few hundred thousand greeks around, so how do you figure that so many were being made annually without serious incident. .

I was including white greeks as well, but you're right, it should be thousands.