Kanye West Rips Into Bush during live feed

[starang21]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Wow. Something tells me I should ignore this thread from now on. My blood pressure won't take it.

it's ok, momma.

[Munchkin03]

Wow, Kanye said what I've been feeling for the past 5 years.

[starang21]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
It's an Associated Press photo, shot by Martha Raddatz, taken while Bush was visiting California either on August 31 or September 1, 2005.

But regardless of the date, everybody knew the hurricane was coming - a Category 5, catastrophic event, not just your run of the milll rainstorm. I think the man should have interrupted his photo op to, I don't know, return to Washington ahead of the storm just to make sure that Homeland Security lived up to its mission?

But what do I know - maybe I expect too much from the leader of the free world.

at least this time, it didn't take 7 minutes.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by starang21
at least this time, it didn't take 7 minutes.

He's getting slower with age...

[Imperial1]

Okay, why was my post deleted again? All I did was say "Stop instigatin.

Imperial1

[Coramoor]

I haven seen the picture of Bush playing the guitar, but I have not read any credible sources of the context.

I did a quick search, and out of about thirty hits all I found was two or three sentences explaining he was at a naval base in CA giving a welcome home speech to the 101st Airborne and congradulating them on doing their job-over the course of around an hour.

Other than that all I found were articules calling him out for being on vacation (at his ranch) instead of I guess walking around NO looking for victims himself...

I think there is no excuse for not having provided a means of evacuation for all of those people.

Meterologists knew what was coming and there was an evacuation called. Many people stayed b/c they didn't want to leave. On the other hand many more people actually did leave. How is it anyone's fault but their own that they stayed against the warnings.

As for me, I'm not buying it. He lost me a long time ago, but when I saw that photo of him playing guitar on vacation while the Gulf Coast was being inundated, I lost what ethereal wisps of respect I could have mustered for the man.

Yeah? Never mind the context-that's not important.

And as far as Mayor Nagin preparedness level goes, he has never done disaster relief and has little experience is managing one of the worst natural disasters in the Untied States. That in no way is an excuse. But he did trust the "FEDERAL authorities" to tell him what his city services will be capable of doing when Hurricane Katrina hit

Wait...so the elected authorities of the state don't have any responsibility to protect their citizens?

Sorry, that's not how it works. If the governor of the state didn't have someone qualified for disaster relief that's their fault-not the Feds or Bush.

Additionally from reading what credible stuff is coming from down there-no one was in charge. Police quitting their job, Firefighters held hostage, no one to even send word up to higher authorities to come down and take over. That's the root of the problem.


There are over 124,000 national guard troops on their way. Which by the way is the point of having a NG-state military forces.


I guess it's pointless to even argue when other's already have their mind made up. Nevermind objectivity or credibility of the sources.

[Kimmie1913]

Condi Rice was clearly not helipng the image of the Administration's indifference. Even if her "domain" is international, this was not a good image in the midst of potentially the largest loss of life from a natural disaster in US History.

As South drowns, Rice soaks in N.Y.





Did New Yorkers chase Condoleezza Rice back to Washington yesterday?

Like President Bush, the Secretary of State has been on vacation during the Hurricane Katrina crisis, with Rice enjoying her downtime in New York Wednesday and yesterday. The cabinet member's responsibilities are usually international, but her timing contributed to the "fiddling while Rome burns" impression given by her boss during the disaster, which may have claimed thousands of lives.


On Wednesday night, Secretary Rice was booed by some audience members at "Spamalot!," the Monty Python musical at the Shubert, when the lights went up after the performance.


Yesterday, Rice went shopping at Ferragamo on Fifth Ave. According to the Web site www.Gawker.com, the 50-year-old bought "several thousand dollars' worth of shoes" at the pricey leather-goods boutique.


A fellow shopper shouted, "How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!" - presumably referring to Louisiana and Mississippi.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-292600c.html

[Aduladi]

Originally posted by Coramoor


Meterologists knew what was coming and there was an evacuation called. Many people stayed b/c they didn't want to leave. On the other hand many more people actually did leave. How is it anyone's fault but their own that they stayed against the warnings.

I just want to remind you that the majority of the people in the states hit the hardest are some of the poorest people in our country. The news reports stated that many of them didn't even have cars. And for those that did have cars it didn't really help them much when they were stranded on the CLOSED interstates. I disagree with your assertion that they could just leave. For all intents and purposes these are society's throw-aways with few resources or support.

Originally posted by Coramoor

Wait...so the elected authorities of the state don't have any responsibility to protect their citizens?

Sorry, that's not how it works. If the governor of the state didn't have someone qualified for disaster relief that's their fault-not the Feds or Bush.

In my mind the point is not that the governor did not have someone qualified. It is that once again-when poor people are involved-people don't care and feel they have the right to ignore the problem. It is very easy to say help yourself, but if you have very few resources with which to do that then you are basically wasting your breath. Also, if memory serves me correctly, when a less powerful tornado hit Florida last year-you know the part of the state that houses the white elderly rich-relief was there almost before the storm was, so the response by the government in this case is inexcusible.

Originally posted by Coramoor

Additionally from reading what credible stuff is coming from down there-no one was in charge. Police quitting their job, Firefighters held hostage, no one to even send word up to higher authorities to come down and take over. That's the root of the problem.

So the next time you are in a flood or any other natural disaster, let's see how easily you are able to cast judgement. Does it matter really in the final analysis? Disaster hit. Relief should have been there sooner. Why should THOUSANDS of people die while the politicians play politics? When disaster hits, the autorities-who knew it was coming, should have had relief there immediately. They knew that the levees would not be able to withstand a storm this large and Homeland Security did NOTHING to remedy the levee problem or respond to the incident to save as many lives as possible.

Originally posted by Coramoor

There are over 124,000 national guard troops on their way. Which by the way is the point of having a NG-state military forces.

I guess it's pointless to even argue when other's already have their mind made up. Nevermind objectivity or credibility of the sources.

They should have BEEN THERE. and you point about people's mind set is well taken, you are clearly pro-government, but I am looking at the track record of facts. I dont think any of this can be looked at as an isolated incident. I saw very clearly an image of Bush shaking hands and hugging crying white evacuees and the one black man in the crowd got patted on the shoulder as if to say "now, now there black man". That fact is hard to avoid and I personally applaud Kanye for saying what he did and giving a voice to the general frustration and sentiment that many people looking at this tragedy are feeling. It is racism and classism at it's very worst and we have clearly demonstrated to the rest of the world what we are. For goodness sake-when Fidel starts offering us help you know we are looking bad on the world's stage.

[Aduladi]

The thing that has me a little frightened is the response time. It took almost a WEEK for anything to be done to help these people. By this time people had lost it. There were people who had to make a choice between saving their young or saving their elderly parents. I would not want to have to make such a choice. Could you imagine how crazy that would make you? To leave behind the people who gave birth to you, to see bodies floating by you-some so distorted that you couldn't tell if they were someone you knew or not.

I know that there are many of us who hang on by the tiniest thread. If something in our selfish worlds gets just a little off center we are completely bent out of shape. Now imagine that feeling magnified by seeing ALL that you have washed away in an instant, by standing in festering rotting water filled will the decay of bodies, oil, and human waste. I think I would go crazy. I don't blame those people for completely losing it.

But here's a thought:

Even after 9/11 we still aren't ready. We can't get help to people who need it in a reasonable time, our govenrment, for all it's bravada, is not ready to handle catastrophe any more than anyone else is. An internal plot to set off bombs in various locales around the country was just uncovered in California. I imagine that with the slow response to intelligence that Homeland Security has coupled with the slow response to catastrophy, we are probably just sitting ducks for the next attack and God help us all because we are SO not ready.

[Coramoor]

I just want to remind you that the majority of the people in the states hit the hardest are some of the poorest people in our country. The news reports stated that many of them didn't even have cars. And for those that did have cars it didn't really help them much when they were stranded on the CLOSED interstates. I disagree with your assertion that they could just leave. For all intents and purposes these are society's throw-aways with few resources or support.

Until you change society it's not going to be any different. From the local gov't on up it's like that, and you can't blame Bush (which is the case in almost all instantces) for something that is a problem across the board and would be a problem no matter who is in office.

This thing is spread across something like 90,000 square miles. Does anyone even understand how large that area is? Even with 124,000 thousand Natonal guards that still a little over one soldier for every square mile. It's going to take time, especially because of the choked roads, lack of power and communication equipment, and the huge spike in crime. They have to work their way in, and the further they go in the worse it gets.

When disaster hits, the autorities-who knew it was coming, should have had relief there immediately.

We knew the storm was coming...but did anyone think it was going to be this big. Sure there were people on both sides saying it was a catastrophe and other's saying it's just another storm. Looking back we can say "Yeah, we were warned." but you can't listen to the worst case scenario b/c you would always waste resources. Their risk analysis was off on this one, and caught LA (where the responsiblity for state safety lies) with their pants down.

They should have BEEN THERE. and you point about people's mind set is well taken, you are clearly pro-government, but I am looking at the track record of facts.

Trust me, I am very anti-gov't, but I disagree with a lot of the articles going around. Right now it's simply reactions with no factual base to them. Just more knee-jerk political moves-people that don't like Bush see this as a way to do harm and are taking full advantage of it.

You are looking at the facts through hindsight, not through the foresight that we had at the time. Yeah, maybe a hurricane of this size was going to come eventually, but by the time it actually showed up on the radar it was too late. NO was running at a near deficit for a while and made the decision to not to beef up the leeves. (NOTE that this rumor of cutting the flood control budget is false. It was close to 60 million in 2005, and wasn't to be cut until 2006-so that had nothing to do with it)

For goodness sake-when Fidel starts offering us help you know we are looking bad on the world's stage.

Fidel is making a political point. That's why he did it, to make us look like we can't handle it.

So the next time you are in a flood or any other natural disaster, let's see how easily you are able to cast judgement. Does it matter really in the final analysis? Disaster hit. Relief should have been there sooner. Why should THOUSANDS of people die while the politicians play politics?

Huh....who are the ones playing politics? Kanye or those that are trying to get things done.

To answer your question, yes you do have to have people in charge down there to assess the situation. We didn't know what was going on down there, we didn't know what was needed, how much, or anything like that. The gov't of that state collapsed and that is where the problem lies. Those thousands of people wouldn't have died if those with local authority would have done their job.

[BigCityStripper]

Yes, most of the people killed didn't have the means to evacuate. But you know who did have the means to evacuate the people at his disposal? Gov. Nagin.



That's an AP photo folks.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...lpc21109012015

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

September 2, 2005
Nagin's Failure

This AP photo shows scores of New Orleans school buses sitting in flood waters after Hurricane Katrina - sitting where they sat instead of being used to evacuate thousands of poor people before Katrina hit.

Why are scores of school buses sitting in the flood waters of New Orleans today? Blame New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who is one reason things have gotten worse, not better, in his stricken city since it was hit by Hurricane Katrina. His laissez faire approach to looting allowed the looters to become increasingly armed and violent, interrupting rescue and recovery operations.

But even before Katrina hit, he failed his poorest citizens horribly. He told them to evacuate the city - and then gave his city's poorest residents no way to do so.

Nagin lashed out at federal officials yesterday for the government's relief efforts, pleading for the government to round up "500 buses" to send to New Orleans to evacuate survivors.

But Nagin, who ordered a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans before Katrina hit, ought to be made to answer this question: Where are the buses of the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority? Under water? Destroyed? Why?

Before Katrina hit, the New Orleans Regional Transportation Authority operated at least 364 buses, probably more. (The latest stats I found are these from 2002. NORTA's website likely has more accurate stats but the site is, understandably, down.)

A more important question for Mayor Nagin is this one:

Why weren't NORTA's 364 buses used to ferry poor people out of New Orleans before Katrina hit?

It's a legitimate question. After all, Nagin knew he had tens of thousands of poor people in his city who had neither money nor vehicles to self-evacuate before the storm arrived. So, why didn't he order NORTA to send its buses into the poor neighborhoods to provide transportation to anyone wishing to leave?

If each bus could hold just 60 people, NORTA's 364 buses had the capacity to take almost 22,000 peope out of harm's way per trip. Given that Nagin ordered the compulsory evacuation of the city two days before the storm hit, there was sufficient time for more than one trip - sufficient time to move tens of thousands of the city's poorest residents out of New Orleans by bus before Katrina arrived.

Even if the buses only made one trip, one in five people now trapped in New Orleans wouldn't be.

But Nagin never sent NORTA's buses and drivers into the city's Ninth Ward, its poorest section, to offer the people there a realistic way out.

Critics will ask where, exactly, the NORTA buses would have taken tens of thousands of people. My answer: the first town they came to 100 miles or so west of New Orleans. Would that be ideal? No, but leaving 100,000 poor people trapped in a below-sea-level city about to be hit by a hurricane stronger than the city's levees were build to withstand wasn't exactly ideal, either.

Nagin is screaming for buses now, but when he had them he failed to use them. People aren't dying in New Orleans today because of what the federal relief effort is or isn't doing. People are dying in New Orleans today because Mayor Ray Nagin failed to get them out before Katrina hit.

People are dying - perhaps by the thousands - because of his failure.

But yes, this is Bush's fault. He should have flown directly into the path of the hurricane and held Nagin's hand through the whole process. I mean, he is the President right? He shouldn't rely on local politicians to handle situations, he should micromanage every disaster in America. I mean, he shouldn't worry about every other thing a President has to worry about on a day-to-day basis. But we know he doesn't do that anyway. All he does is sit around, eat pretzyls, snort coke, bathe in oil, eat babies, sacrifice virgins, kick black people, blah blah blah.

I think the whole country has gone crazy! I feel really bad for those in Louisiana and Missippi. Granted, there was an evacuation called, the meteorologists warned people, and some people decided to stay while others evacuated.

There were several calls to the federal administration . . . at least that was what was reported here in SC. The federal government knew this hurricane was going to be bad simply because the Weather Channel said it was going to a 4 or 5 category hurricane and New Orleans is below sea level. Unless they don't know what time the weather comes on or what channel the weather channel is on, they knew it was going to be a bad situation. It's common sense. Anything that sits below sea level is going to act as a bowl when a hurricane comes in.

[valkyrie]

I think Kanye rocks.

Why in the hell shouldn't he say what he wants to say?

[starang21]

Originally posted by Coramoor
How is it anyone's fault but their own that they stayed against the warnings.

a lot of people left because they couldn't. with gas prices what they are, and the economic class in which they inhabit....what else could you expect? a lot of people stuck around because they COULDN"T leave.

Originally posted by Coramoor
Wait...so the elected authorities of the state don't have any responsibility to protect their citizens?

Sorry, that's not how it works. If the governor of the state didn't have someone qualified for disaster relief that's their fault-not the Feds or Bush.

so he's supposed to singlehandely fix the problem himself because he's an elected official? damn...i guess it is ok that the federal government took as long as it did, because nagin himself should have been on top of the ball. this response is idiotic.

Originally posted by Coramoor
Additionally from reading what credible stuff is coming from down there-no one was in charge. Police quitting their job, Firefighters held hostage, no one to even send word up to higher authorities to come down and take over. That's the root of the problem.

credible is relative. just because it doesn't support your opinion doesn't mean it's not credible.

Originally posted by Coramoor
There are over 124,000 national guard troops on their way. Which by the way is the point of having a NG-state military forces.

5 days after?

[SkeeWee14]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Fidel is making a political point. That's why he did it, to make us look like we can't handle it.

We cant, couldn't, or flat out wouldn't...

Who give's a crap about political points being made. The US should be accepting help from anyone who is willing to give it. Especially when "we" are always the first in line to help other countries when they need it (and even when they don't). It's a damn shame that a government that is so well prepared to take care of the affairs in other countries, can't even take care of their own affairs. Like my grandmother used to say..."We need to sweep around our own front door"...

This entire situation is a mess on every level and unfortunately it's the poor who are paying the price of not having government leaders (on the local, state, and federal level) who were fully prepared to protect and serve them.