Looters in New Orleans

[Kevlar281]

The news just gave an update on some of the civil unrest at the astrodome; the police are reporting that most incidents of looting and fighting have been committed by what they referred to as the “criminal element.” Which I assume means people with prior convictions. I’m honestly impressed with the city and how they have handled the logistical nightmare of the influx of 25,000+ refugees. Interesting fact “so many refugees now live in the Astrodome that the U.S. Postal Service has issued the 77320 ZIP Code to the former professional stadium. The move makes it easier for refugees to receive letters and care packages.”

[starang21]

Originally posted by lovelyivy84
I only came back to read about how people were doing, not to post. This was the first one in recent threads when I logged in and I was pretty upset by it.

Once I saw the other topics in other forums, I edited my post. This will probably be my last post on GC.

ur alive???

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by lovelyivy84
I came back to GC to see how folks were faring in the midst of all this tragedy. From my job at a local College, I have desperately been trying to get in touch with all the people affiliated with the school that I can. I have heard back from 2.

I am so sick over what is happening here.

A major American city just collapsed, and the residents who have managed to escape with their lives all are left with nothing. In a city where something like 30-40% of the population are at or below the poverty level, what does this mean? What is going to happen to America in the wake of this disaster? NOLA is the fourth largest port in the country, and I read that it is actually the 4th largest port int he WORLD by volume. 1.6 million people just lost everything, and insurance in those areas of the country will usually only cover wind damage to houses, leaving the rest to be covered by FEMA.

And THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE CARE ABOUT?

I have seen media pictures just like all of you and the VAST majority of looters were carrying clothes, food, batteries and water. WHO CARES whether we call it looting or finding. Fact is they had to commit theft to get their needs met.

As to reports about stealing stereos, etc, do we have ANY concrete information supporting all of this condemnation? I am not saying it is NOT happening, but I would bet that the percentage of people stealing stereos ESPECIALLY at this point is PRETTY DAMN LOW. Talking about like that's half of the god damn city is sooo beyond ludicrous.

BE mad about the robberies and rapes that are going on down there and preventing people at evacuation centers from even going to the damn bathroom. Be mad at a local and federal government that was COMPLETELY incapable of providing any means for the poorest, the elderly and the sick to EVACUATE the damn city. They told them to leave, but didnt do a damn thing to make sure they did.

Being mad that the media called people looters is BEYOND petty.

ETA: Sorry if this feels like an attack on anyone. I'm just angry about the situation, like a whole lot of people, and sometimes it feels like folks IN GENERAL think it's more important to point fingers then actually help. And pointing fingers at black people, white people, etc just feels like a HUGE avoidance of the real issues. I know that a lot of people are discussing a lot more than this, this just seems *especially* unproductive. At least no one here is blaming the victims for not leaving, when so many of them couldn't.

I hope everyone on this thread has already donated to the Salvation Army and Red Cross.

I concur 1908%

It's nice to see you drop in although it is on a bad note...

Our Soror AKA2D91' was able to evacuate and is in Baton Rouge doing "fine" (meaning she's alive)--but she's lost everything in NOLA...

And one of our newest Soror Refinediva has not heard from several of her family members--including a grandparent who were unable to evacuate due to the reasons you listed.

Believe me your issues are not falling SOME FOLKS IGNORANT DEAF EARS!!!

But some folks on GC are juvenile and selfish and only see their point of view... That is just how some GC folks are and what I am seeing in many of the Hurricane Katrina threads are folks are venting because they don't know what to say. Although that should be no consolation... I just mostly think many folks who are outside of the purview of understanding NOLA and its ways are at a loss for words and are trying to say whatever comes to mind no matter how ignorant it sounds...

I hope you see my post.

And I agree with you because I'm pissed off by the same reasons as you are...

[Jill1228]

I agree! I understand taking food and water but WTF are you gonna do with a big assed plasma TV when you have no home let alone no place to plug the damn thing in

And WTF is up at shooting at relief workers. That is biting the hand that feeds you!

Anyone, regardless of race that does this needs to be taken out!

Originally posted by kddani
Anyone who shoots at gun at those trying to rescue people deserves to be shot on sight themselves.

[Kamryn]

Originally posted by Jill1228
I agree! I understand taking food and water but WTF are you gonna do with a big assed plasma TV when you have no home let alone no place to plug the damn thing in

And WTF is up at shooting at relief workers. That is biting the hand that feeds you!

Anyone, regardless of race that does this needs to be taken out!

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world BLIND." This is exactly the reason our world is in the mess it's in. We have this hit me and I'll hit you back mentality.

We don't know why people are shooting at releif workers. Remember we weren't physically there to "see" and "hear" exactly what happened. Who knows? Those same releif workers may be trying to make bargains for that same plasma TV in exchange for food. It's easy for our media to flip the script and make things appear to be what it's not. The same way they cut Kanye off after his statement. Don't be fooled.

People won't shoot unless you give them a reason to. In this case it may be self defense or a method of survival. Maybe someone is taking that "big assed plasma TV" to exchange for food, with someone who actually think they can plug the thing in somewhere, so they can feed their children. We don't know, because we're not there. We sit in the comfort of our homes watching on tv what the media wants us to see.

It's important that we don't spend our energy speaking on what we don't know, and spend it on finding ways to help. Because the same way it happened in those cities, it could have happened where you are. Maybe not a hurricane, but some other natural disaster like a blizzard or an earthquake. Who knows? I don't know where you are, but natural disasters happen everywhere and we must always remember that!

Don't allow ignorance to lead you through this world. It won't get you very far. I challenge you to think outside of the box. Remember we don't know. They're there, and we're here...

[kafromTN]

Originally posted by Kamryn
We don't know why people are shooting at releif workers. Remember we weren't physically there to "see" and "hear" exactly what happened. Who knows? Those same releif workers may be trying to make bargains for that same plasma TV in exchange for food. It's easy for our media to flip the script and make things appear to be what it's not. The same way they cut Kanye off after his statement. Don't be fooled.

People won't shoot unless you give them a reason to. In this case it may be self defense or a method of survival. Maybe someone is taking that "big assed plasma TV" to exchange for food, with someone who actually think they can plug the thing in somewhere, so they can feed their children. We don't know, because we're not there. We sit in the comfort of our homes watching on tv what the media wants us to see.

Did you watch O'Reilly factor the other night?

The dude on there used the same excuse you just did about "using a big screen t.v. to bargain for food" what kind of idiot thinks a t.v. will do them any good in the city with no electricity? It's a damn cop out. That dude is a looter, pure& simple, I don't care if he's black, white, asian, purple, blue or whatever, he is a criminal.

Is it ok for people to steal jewlery& cars?
No, it's not. I totally understand food, water, clothing [in moderate amounts] but not t.v.'s, stereo equipment, jewlery, other electronics, that is theft& I have no sympathy for people like that. People keep defending the looters like they didn't do anything wrong& that's the problem, they did & they need to accept responsibility for their actions.

-Mark

[Kamryn]

Originally posted by kafromTN
Did you watch O'Reilly factor the other night?

The dude on there used the same excuse you just did about "using a big screen t.v. to bargain for food" what kind of idiot thinks a t.v. will do them any good in the city with no electricity? It's a damn cop out. That dude is a looter, pure& simple, I don't care if he's black, white, asian, purple, blue or whatever, he is a criminal.

Is it ok for people to steal jewlery& cars?
No, it's not. I totally understand food, water, clothing [in moderate amounts] but not t.v.'s, stereo equipment, jewlery, other electronics, that is theft& I have no sympathy for people like that. People keep defending the looters like they didn't do anything wrong& that's the problem, they did & they need to accept responsibility for their actions.

-Mark

No, I didn't watch O'Reilly factor the other night. But I did use common sense.

If you had a 2 year old child who hasn't eaten anything in days and someone walks up to you with a loaf of bread and some diapers, saying that they will exchange that loaf of bread and diapers for a plasma tv. You'll do what you have to do to get that plasma tv. The last thing you're thinking about is where this dummy is planning on plugging in this tv. YOUR CHILD NEEDS FOOD, AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS. At this point, I don't care what anyone says, it's about survival. As I stated before, we're in the comfort of our own homes not really knowing what's going on... The media shows us what they want us to see. Don't be an educated fool.

I know what looting is. I saw it when I stood outside of my home in the middle of the Rodney King LA Riots.

Mark, I never mentioned whether or not I felt that it had anything to do with race. My initial post clearly explained that we do not know what exactly is going on, so instead of using energy criticizing what's going on, try to HELP! If you're not going to help, then that's also up to you.

But now that you mention it, I do feel that race has an integral role in this situation. As stated over and over on this board, I find it hard to understand how our president could find all the necessary resources to help internationally, but not in his own backyard. In addition, it's quite interesting how articles mentions black people "looting" and white people "finding". All that is happening now is the truth is beginning to surface, like the bodies of deceased corpses are beginning to surface in New Orleans. People are speaking out and they're speaking the truth. Truth hurts sometimes, but reality is not always painless.

Don't get defensive, I'm just stating the facts. You're entitled to your own opinion. Our country of "freedom" gives you the right of free speech as well. We may agree to disagree.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Kamryn
No, I didn't watch O'Reilly factor the other night. But I did use common sense.

If you had a 2 year old child who hasn't eaten anything in days and someone walks up to you with a loaf of bread and some diapers, saying that they will exchange that loaf of bread and diapers for a plasma tv. You'll do what you have to do to get that plasma tv. The last thing you're thinking about is where this dummy is planning on plugging in this tv. YOUR CHILD NEEDS FOOD, AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS. At this point, I don't care what anyone says, it's about survival. As I stated before, we're in the comfort of our own homes not really knowing what's going on... The media shows us what they want us to see. Don't be an educated fool.

I know what looting is. I saw it when I stood outside of my home in the middle of the Rodney King LA Riots.

I'd saying being an apolgist is as bad as an educated fool... because the "scenario" you described sounds pretty BS to me - one the effort required to grab a plasma screen TV would be a hell of a lot less that aquiring food or diapers (or a subsitute). Besides it's not like the looting happened only after days of frustration or desperation - it happened pretty much immediately... I mean just look at the Webcam site I posted in the Chit Chat thread about the hurricane.

If your under the impression that the looting was a media manufactured or inflated problem then I'm sorry to say you are the one looking like the educated fool.

[Kamryn]

Originally posted by RACooper
I'd saying being an apolgist is as bad as an educated fool... because the "scenario" you described sounds pretty BS to me - one the effort required to grab a plasma screen TV would be a hell of a lot less that aquiring food or diapers (or a subsitute). Besides it's not like the looting happened only after days of frustration or desperation - it happened pretty much immediately... I mean just look at the Webcam site I posted in the Chit Chat thread about the hurricane.

If your under the impression that the looting was a media manufactured or inflated problem then I'm sorry to say you are the one looking like the educated fool.

The plasma tv was an object used FIGURATIVELY to describe a "scenario" that may be occuring. Maybe not with a plasma tv, but none the less, it could have happened with jewelry or whatever object you want to replace that particular object, or like you say "a substitute." I didn't know I had to be specific.

My understanding and EXPERIENCE with the media, as a public relations specialist, my background as an activist and my EDUCATION, etc. reinforces my opinion of the media and how the media changes your perception of what you are seeing. Things aren't always as they appear to be.

In that little world that you live in, everything me be prim and proper. But I live in the REAL world, where propaganda exists.

To you I may seem like an educated fool. Educated I am, but not a fool. You see, I think of all of the possibilities. I don't allow myself to be led by our media. I THINK for myself. Only lazy people sit back and let the media tell them what to think. As I said before, things aren't always what they APPEAR to be. I'm not saying that no one is looting. Maybe they are. But we can't generalize it and say that people aren't looting for a reason. One of the primary reasons is survival. I can't speak on behalf of everyone and neither can you.

It has been said that, if you argue with a fool it's hard to tell who the fool is. I'm not arguing with you. I stated my opinion to help enlighten your mind and stimulate your intellect. You're entitled to your own opinion as well.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Kamryn
My understanding and EXPERIENCE with the media, as a public relations specialist, my background as an activist and my EDUCATION, etc. reinforces my opinion of the media and how the media changes your perception of what you are seeing. Things aren't always as they appear to be.

In that little world that you live in, everything me be prim and proper. But I live in the REAL world, where propaganda exists.

Well golly gee Mr. Wizard, propaganda in media thats unpossible

I know that the media changes how we percieve things, given the fact that it is the medium in which we first learn of events. I'd say the educated fool is one who knows this, and there for dismisses the media - instead of the wiser person who realizes there is propaganda and bias and decides to look past it by using the media as a information tool, and not being a tool of the media.

Yes when I heard about the looting from the media my first thoughts tended to centre on the fact that the most sensational stories are the ones that grab the limelight - so I decided to do some checking myself into primary or unaltered sources that thanks to the wonderful world of the internet we now have access to. For example you could have listened to the NOPD and Emergency Services radio via the internet, or accessed one of the sites broadcasting images from the NO via webcams. Although some of these images and broadcasts did make note of the fact that some of the looting was about survival, a very large percentage had nothing to do with survival and more to do with criminality.

The unfortunate thing is that I wasn't at all surprised; disappointed yes, but not surprised. I guess that's because I have seen the worst of humanity, and realize that ever community or society has the animal or scum element - only scope of the element is really in question.

To you I may seem like an educated fool. Educated I am, but not a fool. You see, I think of all of the possibilities. I don't allow myself to be led by our media. I THINK for myself. Only lazy people sit back and let the media tell them what to think. As I said before, things aren't always what they APPEAR to be. I'm not saying that no one is looting. Maybe they are. But we can't generalize it and say that people aren't looting for a reason. One of the primary reasons is survival. I can't speak on behalf of everyone and neither can you.

It has been said that, if you argue with a fool it's hard to tell who the fool is. I'm not arguing with you. I stated my opinion to help enlighten your mind and stimulate your intellect. You're entitled to your own opinion as well.

My only hope is that you take your own advise and actually look into things before accepting the preconceptions that you are most comfortable wiin th. While I expected there to be looting (there is after ever disaster) I was shocked by the levels being reported in the media - so I decided to check by other means to see if the levels were being exagerated... and unfortunately I don't think they were - if anything it was so commonplace that it wasn't all that sensational for reporters anymore.

Hopefully through some desire to defend/strengthen your opinion you'll do some digging yourself - because while it may not change your opinion at least you'll have a better grasp of the situation.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Kamryn
People won't shoot unless you give them a reason to.

Unfortunately, that's just not true.

And, blaming "the media" for all of our problems is just too easy.

[RACooper]

Anybody else catch the shoot-out on BBC? Covering the firefight between the looters that attacked the contractors at the levee and the NOPD?

Zero-tolerance is right - it looks like the even shot the guy surrendering...

[kafromTN]

I read an article in our newpaper and the person directing the repair of the levees for the Army Corps of Engineers in New Orleans is doing it from here in Memphis. He even said [paraphrasing here] that he only expected the water to top the levees, not have the levees break. So I guess y'all's assumption that if a levee is topped it will automatically break is incorrect. [I will try to locate that article online for you if I can]


Also I saw a friend last night who was down there for a bachelor's party& were supposed to return Sunday morning but the Amtrak train decided not to run, they were told it would be running when they checked on it the day before. They stayed in the French Quarter in a hotel and he told me that the hotel staff left& they were up in their rooms waiting for the rescue personnel to come get people out of that area. They decided to leave Wednesday b/c random people were starting to take over the hotel. They grabbed the shoer curtain rods to use as some sort of protection& to push things floating in the water out of their way. They were able to get out b/c they took maps out of the phonebook& sent text messages to find out what roads were open still. They were stopped by police on a bridge and told to wait for a bus that was coming by, they squeezed 9 guys into a bus that had 70 people already. They got to the next parrish over& were told by police at gunpoint they had nothing for them there& had to leave. They paid $200 to a guy to drive them to Baton Rouge where they flew home after getting in touch with one of the guy's relatives who had a private plane& he came and got them.

The point of all this is that I have heard from a very reliable source what's going on out there. He said what you see on the news about the looting, gun shots, robberies etc. are all true, if not worse than what's reported. So I can make my judgement based on a 1st hand source with no spin that the media gives things.

-Mark

[moe.ron]

There was reports, don't know how accurate they are, that people that was walking out of NOLA was turned back once they hit the highway. Going to try to find the story.

[Glitterkitty]

Originally posted by Rudey
I did a search and found this:
"Contrary to many media reports, martial law has not been declared in New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, because no such term exists in Louisiana state law[4]. Rather, a state of emergency has been declared, which does give some powers similar to that of martial law. On the evening of August 31, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin did declare "martial law" (in name at least) in the city and said that "officers don't have to worry about civil rights and Miranda rights in stopping the looters."


The thing is that on Good Morning America this morning they talked about how President Bush was considering declaring martial law. Maybe that's on the federal level or something...

-Rudey

I am not sure about the logistics/linguistics of martial law per se, but I do know that the Mayor of NO or the governor of LA has to actually ask or request military help from the federal government. He waited a long time to do that I think. That's why troops weren't there as quickly as the media would have liked.

Back to the looter thing-shoot them on site. That's bullshit.

I heard today that a man tried to rape a 13 year old girl by the astrodome or whatever that is, and a mob killed him. Good.