Depositions Underway In AKA Drowning Lawsuit

[Virtual Violet]

The mother of one of the drowining victims will be appearing on "Dr. Phil" on Monday, September 30. Check your local listings for the time.


www.drphil.com

(Go to the "Next Week's Shows, click on Monday)

[NewBee]

Originally posted by Virtual Violet
The mother of one of the drowining victims will be appearing on "Dr. Phil" on Monday, September 30. Check your local listings for the time.


www.drphil.com

(Go to the "Next Week's Shows, click on Monday)

Did anyone else see this??? I was kinda disturbed because for one the boyfriend and the mom were only on there for like 5 minutes literally and also because the boyfriend said something like the saturday before they died that the pledges, or whatever its PC to call them, participated in a similiar event with going to the ocean at night and being bound. This is such a tragedy and I think this was an accident but I don't understand how it seems everyone feels the need to blame someone. If anything is to be blamed its the process, a process that so many people feel like they have to go through to belong and that is quite frankly outdated and almost barbaric. I don't and wont apologize for saying that. Hazing has taking too many precious lives, and you have to put the blame where its due, on old traditions that people feel the must endure and also execute to get the love and respect of their fellow peers. Even the AKAs who were pledging them are a victim of this, can you imagine living with the guilt of being indirectly involved with the death of someone who wanted to be your sister??? Its truly sad that sisterhood and brotherhood has come to this...

[DableST_1]

I just heard about this and all I can say is WOW!!!!!!!! I can't believe that this has happened. It truly saddens my heart. Also I heard that one of the family members is asking for 100 MILLION DOLLARS !!!!!!! from Alpha Kappa Alpha. I don't think that it's going to hold up, especially since the chapter was suspended.

[NUPE4LIFE]

YES TWO WOMEN ARE DEAD! NOW WE AS BGLO MEMBERS MUST MOVE ON AND FIX THIS VIRUS AS AKA2D HAS STATED....


However, we must be realistic. No matter what new process we introduce, things are still gonna be the same unless the mentality of members change. I seriously want to explore others option for MIP. We have to find ways to stop the senseless MURDERS of our own in the name of greek letters. And how do we really stop underground pledging? I know people who have pre-pledged before they even knew whether or not they had been extended membership. Maybe "pre-selection" might be a viable option. Or the bid process that the IFC and NPC do. I'm not saying that these options are right for us, but we have to do something. And before some of you say how we should never do this, think about how we might not even have organizations to have Intake. Or how this is bad PR for all our orgs. Membership Intake and reclamation are the lifeline of our orgs. Any suggestions on how we should conduct Rush, Intake?

[Lady1922]

Like so many have said before, no matter what we put on paper (MIP, rush, whatever we want to call it), NOTHING'S GOING TO CHANGE until we change our mentality.

We have now created a monster, yall. Our mentality of "skating vs. pledging" has turned into an entire culture of madness. Because THIS IS MADNESS. Cuz you want to know the truth?? Somewhere out there, someone who isn't posting, and isn't speaking too loud is STILL applauding the events that led to these ladies' deaths. Someone is STILL beating their chests talkin' bout "yeah... THAT'S hardcore!"

It's madness.

How do we change it? How about we stop putting those who went through MADNESS up on a pedestal?? (That was then, this is now. Get over it.)

How about we start EDUCATING our undergrads? As grads, it's easier for us to see the bigger picture, to see how USELESS these hazing rituals are. And for a lot of us, we didn't fully understand all that while we were undergrad. So how about we ENLIGHTEN OUR UNDERGRADS?? (And not just throw the books at them?)

How about we remind ourselves that our founders DID NOT STAND FOR THIS??

How about we think of that little boy with no mother??

How in the WORLD are we going to explain it to him?? "My mother died trying to do what?!"

[Love_Spell_6]

AS MUCH AS WE ALL HATE TO ADMIT IT...............60% OF THE SOLUTION IS THE ELIMINATION OF UNDERGRAD CHAPTERS Sad but true. And I still feel the process should be changed from there. At that age, you're so naive and ao many are willing to do WHATEVER to be DOWN. Because let's be real, we really can't change anybody's mentality. It's not likely after the age of 23 that a grown person will take another grown person something to eat in the middle of the night etc. risking losing their job. ANd if they will do that,.............................. But on the other hand, if organizations have rules in place where the process only takes 3 days......(I won't mention the org) it may not be that those individuals feel less than, they probably feel cheated that they don't even know the people they're supposed to call their LS's or LB's and that they don't know enough info about the org. So clearly there's work to do even if undergrad chapters are done away with.

The sooner Everybody's HQ realizes this, the better. I also think this would curb many people from trying to be in BGLO's for the wrong reasons i.e. stepping, being owt, trying to be someone they're not on the yard...that they weren't before the letters. It makes me sooooo mad when I ask Sorors who claim they Pledged soooo hard in undergrad why they're not active
"Oh I don't have the time"
"Oh that was just something to do in undergrad"

I always think to myself, Is that what you said to get in?? Money is understandable, but you don't have to be financial to help out!! But I digress............


And I know the Mother is suing for 100 million, and good for her! I know my Mom would do the same thing! Nationals better wake up......

[pretty3grl]

If you read the current President's message on the AKA national webpage, you will see that there was no active chapter at Cal State (the city chapter was suspended 2 years ago), and that the ladies who were "pledging" the girls may not have EVER been members of the Sorority.
This leads me to believe that even if undergrad chapters were eliminated, there would be women who would enter into an illegal and non-official process even though they would not actually ever be considered members of the Sorority. There are also Sorors and non-sorors (perps and renegades) who would continue to lead these "underground" processes. For example I know of a fraternity in my area that has been off of a particular yard for some time, yet new "members" continue to show up. None of them could possibly be nationally recognized! I know of no way for this fraternity's national headquarters to monitor this behavior (except to sue these proported members), because it is common campus knowledge that this fraternity is off the yard (and the old members were expelled from the fraternity), yet new "recruits" are ready and willing to "sign up" every semester. Even if expelled members are posted in a public medium like a web page, some interests will allow them to "pledge" them knowing that the process is not legal.
I don't have any answer of how to change THAT mentality. I personally feel that the Sorority should sue any person who proports to be a member, especially if they commit a crime while proporting to be a member.


In 1908....the year of the GREAT...............

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by pretty3grl
If you read the current President's message on the AKA national webpage, you will see that there was no active chapter at Cal State (the city chapter was suspended 2 years ago), and that the ladies who were "pledging" the girls may not have EVER been members of the Sorority.
This leads me to believe that even if undergrad chapters were eliminated, there would be women who would enter into an illegal and non-official process even though they would not actually ever be considered members of the Sorority.

Even if expelled members are posted in a public medium like a web page, some interests will allow them to "pledge" them knowing that the process is not legal.

I have read the Supreme Basileus' message on AKA's national website and I know that there was not an active chapter on the campus....

However, it is unlikely that a grown woman, with responsibilities (i.e. career, home, husband, etc.) would allow herself to be subjected to nonsense!! And if she does, I think it's rare that a judge/jury would feel sympathetic to her. That would also be their stupidity. I don't know about other orgs. but pledging DST with a fulltime job is HARD WORK!!!!!!!!!! It's another full time job in and of itself!! Also, if their names and chapter info are made public, like Delta, that would help the sorority defend themselves. They could hold the position that if the lady had done research, she would have known that the chapter was not there, and that the members were suspended. That's smart thinking! It's obvious that someone at age 24 or 25 is more mature than a 19 or 20 year old, and would thus make different decisions. The fact that young people would continue to sign up knowing the chapter is suspended proves my point even more!! Undergrad chapters need to be eliminated! The process should be reserved for people who have managed to balance their careers and livelihoods, and want to add a BGLO to their life.

Bottom line, all of the HQ's have to protect themselves, and Delta and Omega have at least started by exposing the renegades and out of control bruz and sorors!!

[observant1]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
However, it is unlikely that a grown woman, with responsibilities (i.e. career, home, husband, etc.) would allow herself to be subjected to nonsense!! .....It's obvious that someone at age 24 or 25 is more mature than a 19 or 20 year old, and would thus make different decisions.

Well weren't the women that died ages 22 and 24 along with the mother age 50 all grown with responsibilites and allowed the nonsense to continue for weeks? I don't see how getting rid of undergrad chapters is the key when you have people (as shown with this incident) age 24 and over who are still in school or go back to get degrees and decide to join an organization. How many times on this board have people posted "I'm 34 and want to apply for membership in undergrad". I don't think you can put an age on desperate/immature people who want to belong to something.

[h2omoccasin]

Well said observant1.
Life is a continuum of wants and desires---- those wants do not begin or end with wanting fraternity/sorority membership. I will go so far as to do something that will make all of my old philosophy and psychology professors cringe--generalize. If you'll do ANNNNNNYTHING to get into a sorority or fraternity, you'll do ANNNNYTHING to get the other things in life you want--- that type of obsession and fanaticism is unhealthy. Surprisingly, if you track the BGLO hazings the make the news, a lot of the "hazing victims" are in their late twenties. Check out this site to read up--- ttp://www.deltasigmatheta.com/hazenews.htm

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
AS MUCH AS WE ALL HATE TO ADMIT IT...............60% OF THE SOLUTION IS THE ELIMINATION OF UNDERGRAD CHAPTERS Sad but true.

Why is that a "true" resolution to the issue? Why do you think that undergrads are 60% of the problem?

To play Devil's Advocate, if undergrads are 60% of the problem, and we as alumnae members are supposed to be teaching & guiding them, doesn't that mean that we as alumnae are failing our "problematic" undergraduates? How is someone who's only been a member for a year supposed to know anything if they're not properly taught & trained?

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by 12dn94dst


Why is that a "true" resolution to the issue? Why do you think that undergrads are 60% of the problem?

To play Devil's Advocate, if undergrads are 60% of the problem, and we as alumnae members are supposed to be teaching & guiding them, doesn't that mean that we as alumnae are failing our "problematic" undergraduates? How is someone who's only been a member for a year supposed to know anything if they're not properly taught & trained?

I can see the resistance to the elimination of undergrad chapters, and that's to be expected. However, in AMERICA, life is about choices and consequences. IF at age 24 or 25 you're still willing to subject yourself to nonsense, (this applies to graduate level) with a career, house, kids, or in graduate school etc....that's on you,...... Undergrad chapters are becoming too much of an expense, and one of the members of the divine 9 is going to go bankrupt trying to hold on to these chapters. (THis has already been predicted NUMEROUS times by people who study BGLO's, if you need sources, PM me). When it's all said and done, I believe I will be proven right. At the Zeta Boule (my sister tells me...), someone made this suggestion. Granted, there are alumnae chapters that get in trouble too, but if folx think it will be to the same extent that undergrads get into trouble, .......I don't know what to say about that kind of thought process...

What's better,,,,,,,hold on to undergrad chapters...........or hold on to the Sorority???

It would also be more helpful if people could give suggestions instead of just critiscizing what is being said.

[h2omoccasin]

Okay!!!! Let's start by getting real with people.

Incorporate criminal background checks, require that aspirants submit several essays addressing ethics, bring the the interview back.

Don't balk---- the requirements are just as rigorous to get into college, obtain employment, etc and if you are an active alum of a BGLO you know (1) your still learning and (2) its definitely a labor of love.

What we have to offer is a real privilege---- and you have to be qualified. Having the min. gpa is not enough or having a 4.0 and sitting in your dorm room, i.e no community service no campus involvement is not enough.

Okay, we addressed aspirants---know for undergrad members.

Simple--- idle minds and hands are the devil's playground------as grad we need to keep ug busy with community service and also participate in and support their initiatives---let them know that their current work lays the groundwork of the organization's future.

BGLOS ARE IN NEED OF BRIGHT, SANE, LAW-ABIDING INDIVIDUALS. This must emphasized at the beginning by letting our young people know that and I think BLGOS have been doing this. There is no way to work around, be "hooked up" or circumnavigating hard work.

For some weird reason people don't feel like the rules apply to them, they lack confidence and wind up falling prey to some sadist who hems them up in a room and beats the crap out of them and abusing them in the name of sisterhood/brotherhood.

To sum it up--- we need to teach our undergrads that we do not have to settle for less when it comes to taking people in-- -- and to view the intake process seriously and that their decisions on candidates not only effects their individual chapters but the international program

[pretty3grl]

Many times what is done illegally in an undergraduate chapter (when it comes to hazing) is done by graduate Sorors who are often inactive and nonfinancial. Sometimes the graduates who participate in undergraduate activities are active in a grad chapter (believe me, I have seen them expelled). The mother who is suing has said on numerous occasions that the process was "underground", thus she knew that it was not a sanctioned process. I wish that she would have reported what was being done to the police before that tragedy occured. I also know that in a lawsuit, percentage of blame is determined, and part of assigning blame is to ask "did someone know or should they have known what was going on." The mother knew, the "pledgers" knew, the "pledgees" knew, but how the college or the sorority could know that a chapter that has been suspended for 2 years and has absolutely no membership could be having "lines" is beyond me. I don't know how they do it in Cali, but in Texas, I have yet to see a Soror recognize a renegade anyway (If you are not national, you are NOT a Soror regardless of what you went through!).
As for availability to info, I believe that the college made it clear that there was no chapter at the college, and I believe that anyone can log on to any college's webpage to get information about campus organizations just as easily as they can log onto an organization's webpage to find out who has been suspended or expelled. The bottom line is some people just don't care. Even if all BGLO's put suspended or expelled members on their webpages, this would not identify absolute perpertrators or renegades. In short, we are not able to send a letter to every man, woman, and child telling them that a chapter is not active or that a person is not, or has never been a member, and we shouldn't feel obligated anyway. As was said earlier, those women were grown, one was married, and one was a mother. I want to point out that even if undergraduate chapters are eliminated, that does not mean that some will not sign up to be hazed by "whoever" anyway, or that graduate members (not chapters) will not conduct illegal processes. As long as there are people out there who are down for whatever, we will all be subject to lawsuit. Whether or not a person has a real case, a lawsuit is bad for the image of the organization anyway, and to outsiders looking in, we will be just as guilty (ie. Alpha Kappa Alpha is dealing with this even though there wasn't even a chapter on the campus, and EVERYONE involved KNEW what was going on was not legal. If undergrad chapters were banned at the time, the lawsuit would have likely still been filed because the family said that any resolutions made to address hazing have been a farce).
I've also been curious as to whether any money was paid for this "process", and where this money is.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by pretty3grl
Many times what is done illegally in an undergraduate chapter (when it comes to hazing) is done by graduate Sorors who are often inactive and nonfinancial. ....

As for availability to info, I believe that the college made it clear that there was no chapter at the college, and I believe that anyone can log on to any college's webpage to get information about campus organizations just as easily as they can log onto an organization's webpage to find out who has been suspended or expelled......

I want to point out that even if undergraduate chapters are eliminated, that does not mean that some will not sign up to be hazed by "whoever" anyway, or that graduate members (not chapters) will not conduct illegal processes......

If undergrad chapters were banned at the time, the lawsuit would have likely still been filed because the family said that any resolutions made to address hazing have been a farce).....
.

At this point I will just agree to disagree........

Like I said earlier.....hold on to undergrad chapters or hold on to the sorority.......the research is out there! I'm just glad my Sorority and Omega have taken the first step to exposing the bad apples in OUR organizations.