Gun rights

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

And every single one of those (besides 1812) was a result of having an army that was too big where it didn't belong.

Actually, 1812 was a result of that as well. The federal government attempting to monopolize force on others.

Is that the histoy you were taught in "Occupied Territory CSA"?

You're really more entertaining when you're dissing shanes and making inconsistent claims about your fraternity membership.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Is that the histoy you were taught in "Occupied Territory CSA"?

Is there a different history?

WTC/Pentagon inspired by terrorists who absolutely loathed America's military presence in the Middle East. Osama Bin Laden's statement regarding this is cited in the 9/11 Commission report. Cuban Missle Crisis, the result of hegemony across the world including the U.S.'s support of the White Army in the Russian Revolution. Iran hostage crisis is quite simple...there wouldn't have been a hostage crisis if we didn't have people over there...and if we hadn't overthrown the Shah, likely. War of 1812 was declared by the United States forged out of expansionism and arrogance.

[I Phi 1963]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

What countries do we need to be protected from? We haven't been in a war to protect our borders in a little over 200 years.

Do you know how many countries hate this country? And it's not even about just defending this country. The United States is basically the worlds police. This country without weapons would be like the police raiding a crack house without guns. If we didn't have any weapons, what do you think would happen to South Korea? They would get blasted by North Korea. The world would be real fucked up if the United States was weapon free.

Originally Posted by AGDee

Was Pearl Harbor more than 200 years ago? Time flies? And the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon? Cuban Missile Crisis? Iran hostage crisis? War of 1812? (lasted longer than just that year and was still going 200 years ago).

CTFU! This is what I was about to say.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Is there a different history?

WTC/Pentagon inspired by terrorists who absolutely loathed America's military presence in the Middle East. Osama Bin Laden's statement regarding this is cited in the 9/11 Commission report. Cuban Missle Crisis, the result of hegemony across the world including the U.S.'s support of the White Army in the Russian Revolution. Iran hostage crisis is quite simple...there wouldn't have been a hostage crisis if we didn't have people over there...and if we hadn't overthrown the Shah, likely. War of 1812 was declared by the United States forged out of expansionism and arrogance.

I don't disagree with any of your points. Foreign policy decisions of the past come back to bite us on the ass. Still has nothing to do with whether or not the government has a right to ban assault rifles, require universal background checks or any other proscribed measure to curb gun violence. You can call it hypocrisy all you want. That has never made it illegal or unconstitutional.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Is there a different history?

There's a difference between reciting historical facts and applying context and critical thinking skills in order to understand those facts.

There's also a difference between apples and oranges.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

WTC/Pentagon inspired by terrorists who absolutely loathed America's military presence in the Middle East. Osama Bin Laden's statement regarding this is cited in the 9/11 Commission report.

We were there with the permission of the Saudis enforcing an UN resolution. Same with the sanctions against Iraq which Bin Laden also had issue with.

Iran hostage crisis is quite simple...there wouldn't have been a hostage crisis if we didn't have people over there...and if we hadn't overthrown the Shah, likely.

First off, they were diplomats. Second we didn't overthrow the Shah. We are the ones who helped him gain power in the first place, but even then it was a coup d'etat. I do agree that we should have stayed out of a purely internal matter, but the Shah was one of our few allies in the Middle East.

War of 1812 was declared by the United States forged out of expansionism and arrogance.

Yes American expansionism was an issue. But the bigger issue was that Britain was not respecting American sovereignty.
There was also the Barbary Coast Wars which were fought over issues of free shipping, and of course both world wars in which the United States had declared itself neutral. I'm sure I can go on and find more examples of defensive wars fought by the US.

[badgeguy]

Really?!? Another school shooting!!

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...ing/?mobile=wp

[Mevara]

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Mevara

As I was saying earlier in the thread...

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I never said that cars can't be used to kill people. The point is, cars weren't built to kill people. That's not their purpose. A gun's purpose is to kill (or severely injure). Again, apples and oranges.

Hell, if we banned everything that could potentially be used to kill people, there would be no trains, planes, or automobiles, you'd have nothing with which to cut your food, you'd have no medication to cure you when you're sick, and baseball would cease to exist.

[badgeguy]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/03/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1

Really?! This is truly sad! The gun thing is really getting out of control.....and I know Im gonna get blasted for this, but it has to be asked....

Why are all of these gun crimes being covered by the media being committed by weird white males?? I mean, there are hundreds if not thousands of gun violence crimes happening all over this country, and yet the media seems to only want to focus on the more tragic ones being done by one section of the demographics?? Is that strange, or to be expected??

[badgeguy]

Ok, and on another note, in the above article, there is a quite by Kyle:
The founding fathers "had the same weapons the military did," he said. "We don't even have that today -- but don't try to take what I've already got."


God rest Chris Kyles soul, but I need to make a comment about this.....

Really??? this guy and others want to keep trying to put what life was like in 1776 to 2012??? First off, the guns in that day were single shot muskets (sorry if I make a gun mistake here, I dont know much gun history)..... The founding fathers DID NOT have high powered rifles or guns capable of killing multiple people in a short period of time!! Had they had that, the entire world would be the under US control! (exaggerating)

Guns back then took a minute or to to reload, and only one person was harmed or killed at a time.......

Ok, if what this quote states is the NRA's case for the second amendment to stand, then WE today should have the same guns our Founding Fathers had!! All gun manufacturers should only be able to make single shot gun powder muskets!!!

My $0.02 worths......

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Ok, and on another note, in the above article, there is a quite by Kyle:
The founding fathers "had the same weapons the military did," he said. "We don't even have that today -- but don't try to take what I've already got."


God rest Chris Kyles soul, but I need to make a comment about this.....

Really??? this guy and others want to keep trying to put what life was like in 1776 to 2012??? First off, the guns in that day were single shot muskets (sorry if I make a gun mistake here, I dont know much gun history)..... The founding fathers DID NOT have high powered rifles or guns capable of killing multiple people in a short period of time!! Had they had that, the entire world would be the under US control! (exaggerating)

Guns back then took a minute or to to reload, and only one person was harmed or killed at a time.......
<snip>

Precisely. That's ALSO all the military had.

The military is comprised of CITIZENS, not special snowflakes. To draw a line and say "citizens" don't "need" something is attempting to create elitism where none belongs.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Precisely. That's ALSO all the military had.

The military is comprised of CITIZENS, not special snowflakes. To draw a line and say "citizens" don't "need" something is attempting to create elitism where none belongs.

There also wasn't a military in the sense we think of today. If there was a standing army at all, it was a tiny one.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

There also wasn't a military in the sense we think of today. If there was a standing army at all, it was a tiny one.

and ... ?

The fact remains that they are still citizens, and not "entitled" to more than the citizenry has. Both should be empowered to buy the tools needed for the job(s) - whether or not someone else thinks it's overkill.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by DGTess

and ... ?

You can't compare the situation today and the situation in 1789. It's apples and oranges. The Bill or Rights and the Constitution still apply today, but the context which within they work is so different. Because of that, they can't be expected to be applied the same way. When the 2nd amendment was passed, every state had a militia and a major war had just been won by that militia. Now there is a powerful standing army and the various states don't maintain a militia at all any more. Only 22 states have militias, and most of those are more for disaster relief then for actually military actions.