School Shooting Newtown CT

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

Hey NRA! Let us know when it's ok to start discussing gun control, ok? It's obvious that you're in charge here.

I'm am sickened and disgusted, and I'm angry. Those poor children whose last moments were spent in sheer terror. The parents whose hopes and dreams for their children disappeared in a matter of minutes. I really hope the country can finally have a productive discussion about how we can eliminate this from ever happening again. The CO theater massacre, the Sikh temple massacre, the mall shooting in OR.... I hope the NRA will stop blocking every discussion we have. Maybe the solution isn't gun control. Perhaps it's better access to mental health programs. But, until the NRA stops telling us we're not allowed to discuss a solution to this problem every time something like this happens, we are going to have more of these senseless killings. The blood is on the NRA's hands.

Way to throw personal responsibility out the door. Blood is on the shooters hands. This was his decision, his actions. NRA isn't to blame, nor is an inanimate object (gun).

[ZTAngel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Way to throw personal responsibility out the door. Blood is on the shooters hands. This was his decision, his actions. NRA isn't to blame, nor is an inanimate object (gun).

Absolutely they're to blame in this. They blockade any discussion that any politician in this country can have about gun-rights and how to prevent irresponsible people from getting a hold of one.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

Absolutely they're to blame in this. They blockade any discussion that any politician in this country can have about gun-rights and how to prevent irresponsible people from getting a hold of one.

School shootings are actually dramatically down over the last couple of decades. So are homicides in general. That's without the passage of any significant gun control legislation.



Sorry to bring facts into this discussion, but emotional catharsis is not a good excuse to restrict gun ownership.

[ZTAngel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Sorry to bring facts into this discussion, but emotional catharsis is not a good excuse to restrict gun ownership.

I'm not advocating for restricting gun ownership. In fact, in my original post, I stated that hopefully a meaningful discussion can be had about preventing this problem which includes better access to mental health services. The problem is that any time this issue is discussed the NRA jumps in with, "Nope! Now is not the time to talk about it! You're not taking my guns!" The politicians have been too afraid to discuss this issue because of the backlash they'll receive. Instead, we have a country with a mental health system that fails. This should've come up for discussion back during Columbine, VA Tech, Fort Hood....but it didn't. And that's unfortunate.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

I'm not advocating for restricting gun ownership. In fact, in my original post, I stated that hopefully a meaningful discussion can be had about preventing this problem which includes better access to mental health services. The problem is that any time this issue is discussed the NRA jumps in with, "Nope! Now is not the time to talk about it! You're not taking my guns!" The politicians have been too afraid to discuss this issue because of the backlash they'll receive. Instead, we have a country with a mental health system that fails. This should've come up for discussion back during Columbine, VA Tech, Fort Hood....but it didn't. And that's unfortunate.

The trouble is, every once in awhile, there are just really bad people out there who do bad things. The kid wasn't lawfully in possession of those guns. We don't even have any great evidence that there was ever an opportunity for mental health intervention or warning signs or anything like that.

And as far as our mental health system goes, yes, it's pretty badly underfunded, but considering our 'free market' approach to healthcare and the fact that mentally ill people are hardly ever of significant means or even employed, unless we were to nationalize healthcare I don't really see things changing.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

I'm not advocating for restricting gun ownership. In fact, in my original post, I stated that hopefully a meaningful discussion can be had about preventing this problem which includes better access to mental health services. The problem is that any time this issue is discussed the NRA jumps in with, "Nope! Now is not the time to talk about it! You're not taking my guns!" The politicians have been too afraid to discuss this issue because of the backlash they'll receive. Instead, we have a country with a mental health system that fails. This should've come up for discussion back during Columbine, VA Tech, Fort Hood....but it didn't. And that's unfortunate.

THIS. I am not attached to any one policy or solution (restrict automatics? better background checks? something else?) because I don't know what works. I am not an expert. I haven't read all of the studies. The problem is that any attempt to even TALK about the issue is met with so much resistance that we can't make any meaningful progress on getting down to the root causes and coming up with real solutions.

For example, everyone points to Chicago: handguns are banned but crime is high. Does that mean handgun bans don't work? Well, no, if anything, it means that a handgun ban in a city surrounded by many, many other cities/towns without handgun bans doesn't work.

I don't at all like the idea of the government being armed while the citizens are not. I am far to the left on civil liberties, and I'm not sure that it's intellectually honest to be for drugs, orgies, and abortions, while against gun ownership. But I do know that something is wrong, and I want to talk about it without being immediately shouted down by the NRA.

[Kevin]

Before we TALK about an issue, we'd probably have to agree that there actually is an issue.

Violent crime is on the decline in this country and that's objective fact.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Before we TALK about an issue, we'd probably have to agree that there actually is an issue.

Violent crime is on the decline in this country and that's objective fact.

So the fact that violent crime is on the decline means that school shootings aren't a problem? This is exactly what I am talking about; the efforts to immediate shoot down any conversation on the topic.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

So the fact that violent crime is on the decline means that school shootings aren't a problem? This is exactly what I am talking about; the efforts to immediate shoot down any conversation on the topic.

School shootings are a problem on a steep decline. The media coverage of these events and the way they are covered is what's different. We'll always have sociopaths who do bad things and we can't really pretend that passing laws is going to fix that.

[Cheerio]

First, prayers for all directly affected by this terrible tragedy.

Second and slightly off-topic, please help if you remember watching something like this: Recently on ABC/CBS/NBC Nightly News, U.S. children with the name "Sandy" in their town or their school were profiled. They were collecting items or money or making thoughtful cards for those affected by Superstorm "Sandy" due to the "Sandy/Sandy" connection. Were the kids in that story children from this Connecticut "Sandy" school?

Can't find any info on possible connection online; perhaps with the tragedy National News pulled any references it had offline.

[IUHoosiergirl88]

I personally am of the opinion that yes, assault-style weapons need to be heavily regulated. However, I believe that a full weapons ban (handguns, hunting-style weapons included) isn't the answer. People have always called for knee-jerk reactions to events that are statistical anomalies...look at your security line at the airport.

In my eyes, guns can't walk into a bank and rob it, someone has to be behind that weapon. Unfortunately, human thought, emotions, and reactions can't be regulated, as much as people would like it to be.

[adpimiz]

Honestly, no amount of laws, metal detectors, searches... Nothing can stop someone who is that messed up in the head and that determined to kill. I agree something needs to be done, but I don't think gun control is the answer. Obviously, the shooter didn't care that murder is illegal. So why would he care if having a gun was illegal? Someone like that will always find a way, no matter what the law is.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88

I personally am of the opinion that yes, assault-style weapons need to be heavily regulated. However, I believe that a full weapons ban (handguns, hunting-style weapons included) isn't the answer. People have always called for knee-jerk reactions to events that are statistical anomalies...look at your security line at the airport.

In my eyes, guns can't walk into a bank and rob it, someone has to be behind that weapon. Unfortunately, human thought, emotions, and reactions can't be regulated, as much as people would like it to be.

Most of these killings were accomplished by handguns.

[EtaPhiZTA]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

My friend is out of surgery and doing physically well. Thank you for the prayers. Please keep them coming for the families of those who lost loved ones. This will take a long time to recover from; it seems everyone I know, knows at least one or two of the victims. It's a small town, and everyone knows everyone. This corner of CT is "small" in that way.

So glad to hear that your friend is out of surgery and is physically doing well. I will continue to offer positive thoughts and prayers for all of those affected in this horrible tragedy.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Short answer, no discussion from me.

It's not a question of "need". It's a creator-given right, to own a hunting rifle.

I'm really not one to jump on the gun-banning bandwagon.

First part of the short answer, I think it's a knee-jerk, overly-simplistic "solution" to a complex problem that won't really solve anything. Rest of the short answer: The NRA/gun rights lobby is equally guilty of knee-jerk, overly-simplistic defensiveness that doesn't solve anything.

As for the bolded, I truly respect your right to your opinion, and I will defend your right to state that opinion. I have a right to state my opinion as well, and my opinion is one of strong disagreement with the suggestion that it is creator-given right to own a hunting rifle.

It is a creator-given right to have the food we need. If that hunting rifle is necessary for food, then I might concede the point. But that is rarely the case, at least in this country. Recreation on the terms we like is not a creator-given right.

Originally Posted by tld221

OAN... I really dislike the coverage about the shooter. I won't go into details but... it really rubs me the wrong way.

Me too. It does more than rub me the wrong way.


ree-Xi, glad your friend is doing okay.