School Shooting Newtown CT

[ZTAngel]

Hey NRA! Let us know when it's ok to start discussing gun control, ok? It's obvious that you're in charge here.

I'm am sickened and disgusted, and I'm angry. Those poor children whose last moments were spent in sheer terror. The parents whose hopes and dreams for their children disappeared in a matter of minutes. I really hope the country can finally have a productive discussion about how we can eliminate this from ever happening again. The CO theater massacre, the Sikh temple massacre, the mall shooting in OR.... I hope the NRA will stop blocking every discussion we have. Maybe the solution isn't gun control. Perhaps it's better access to mental health programs. But, until the NRA stops telling us we're not allowed to discuss a solution to this problem every time something like this happens, we are going to have more of these senseless killings. The blood is on the NRA's hands.

And I'm sick of religious zealots saying that owning a gun is a God-given right mandated by the bible. It's not. And you do a disservice to anyone innocently killed by a gun by streaming that line of bullshit.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

Hey NRA! Let us know when it's ok to start discussing gun control, ok? It's obvious that you're in charge here.

I'm am sickened and disgusted, and I'm angry. Those poor children whose last moments were spent in sheer terror. The parents whose hopes and dreams for their children disappeared in a matter of minutes. I really hope the country can finally have a productive discussion about how we can eliminate this from ever happening again. The CO theater massacre, the Sikh temple massacre, the mall shooting in OR.... I hope the NRA will stop blocking every discussion we have. Maybe the solution isn't gun control. Perhaps it's better access to mental health programs. But, until the NRA stops telling us we're not allowed to discuss a solution to this problem every time something like this happens, we are going to have more of these senseless killings. The blood is on the NRA's hands.

Way to throw personal responsibility out the door. Blood is on the shooters hands. This was his decision, his actions. NRA isn't to blame, nor is an inanimate object (gun).

[ZTAngel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Way to throw personal responsibility out the door. Blood is on the shooters hands. This was his decision, his actions. NRA isn't to blame, nor is an inanimate object (gun).

Absolutely they're to blame in this. They blockade any discussion that any politician in this country can have about gun-rights and how to prevent irresponsible people from getting a hold of one.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

Absolutely they're to blame in this. They blockade any discussion that any politician in this country can have about gun-rights and how to prevent irresponsible people from getting a hold of one.

School shootings are actually dramatically down over the last couple of decades. So are homicides in general. That's without the passage of any significant gun control legislation.



Sorry to bring facts into this discussion, but emotional catharsis is not a good excuse to restrict gun ownership.

[ZTAngel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Sorry to bring facts into this discussion, but emotional catharsis is not a good excuse to restrict gun ownership.

I'm not advocating for restricting gun ownership. In fact, in my original post, I stated that hopefully a meaningful discussion can be had about preventing this problem which includes better access to mental health services. The problem is that any time this issue is discussed the NRA jumps in with, "Nope! Now is not the time to talk about it! You're not taking my guns!" The politicians have been too afraid to discuss this issue because of the backlash they'll receive. Instead, we have a country with a mental health system that fails. This should've come up for discussion back during Columbine, VA Tech, Fort Hood....but it didn't. And that's unfortunate.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

I'm not advocating for restricting gun ownership. In fact, in my original post, I stated that hopefully a meaningful discussion can be had about preventing this problem which includes better access to mental health services. The problem is that any time this issue is discussed the NRA jumps in with, "Nope! Now is not the time to talk about it! You're not taking my guns!" The politicians have been too afraid to discuss this issue because of the backlash they'll receive. Instead, we have a country with a mental health system that fails. This should've come up for discussion back during Columbine, VA Tech, Fort Hood....but it didn't. And that's unfortunate.

The trouble is, every once in awhile, there are just really bad people out there who do bad things. The kid wasn't lawfully in possession of those guns. We don't even have any great evidence that there was ever an opportunity for mental health intervention or warning signs or anything like that.

And as far as our mental health system goes, yes, it's pretty badly underfunded, but considering our 'free market' approach to healthcare and the fact that mentally ill people are hardly ever of significant means or even employed, unless we were to nationalize healthcare I don't really see things changing.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

I'm not advocating for restricting gun ownership. In fact, in my original post, I stated that hopefully a meaningful discussion can be had about preventing this problem which includes better access to mental health services. The problem is that any time this issue is discussed the NRA jumps in with, "Nope! Now is not the time to talk about it! You're not taking my guns!" The politicians have been too afraid to discuss this issue because of the backlash they'll receive. Instead, we have a country with a mental health system that fails. This should've come up for discussion back during Columbine, VA Tech, Fort Hood....but it didn't. And that's unfortunate.

THIS. I am not attached to any one policy or solution (restrict automatics? better background checks? something else?) because I don't know what works. I am not an expert. I haven't read all of the studies. The problem is that any attempt to even TALK about the issue is met with so much resistance that we can't make any meaningful progress on getting down to the root causes and coming up with real solutions.

For example, everyone points to Chicago: handguns are banned but crime is high. Does that mean handgun bans don't work? Well, no, if anything, it means that a handgun ban in a city surrounded by many, many other cities/towns without handgun bans doesn't work.

I don't at all like the idea of the government being armed while the citizens are not. I am far to the left on civil liberties, and I'm not sure that it's intellectually honest to be for drugs, orgies, and abortions, while against gun ownership. But I do know that something is wrong, and I want to talk about it without being immediately shouted down by the NRA.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

Absolutely they're to blame in this. They blockade any discussion that any politician in this country can have about gun-rights and how to prevent irresponsible people from getting a hold of one.

We do have laws in place that prevent irresponsible people from getting their hands on firearms. According to reports, this guy tried buying a gun last tuesday but wasn't able to because of.....yep, gun laws. CT has some pretty strict gun control laws in place as is, and the facts prove that stricter laws do not prevent random acts of violence like this. If you want to throw blame at people or groups other than the shooter why not the entertainment industry that glamorizes and desensitizes us to violence, or the health care industry that puts mental health issues aside, or this guys mother who failed to properly secure her firearms while living with a mentally disturbed son? Gun control is just one facet of these problems yet it seems like the only thing people want to talk about and politicize and push through. When it comes to violence, guns only make up the how and not the why and if we can't see past that we will continue to have these random rampages.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by happilyanchored

There was a really great article posted today by the mother of a mentally ill child who has violent episodes.

I've seen a link that counters the reality of that first one.. the mom's blog. It is disturbing. http://sarahkendzior.com/2012/12/16/...read-her-blog/

Originally Posted by amIblue?

The state run facilities needed to be reformed no doubt, but to me, the lack of appropriate mental health care goes back to the state of the health care industry. Insurance carriers limit what they are willing to pay; therefore providers aren't able to sustain operations. Perhaps spending a bit more as a society on health care could not only make us all healthier, but safer in the long run.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

...which is why people who can end up paying out of pocket to providers. Sometimes mental health care providers don't even take insurance. If they do, they might not be able to see you for months at a time, or might not be accepting new patients. The way mental health care in this country is addressed is shameful.

Insurance will pay for whatever your employer is willing for them to pay. They choose to skimp on that coverage. The state and community mental health systems, which treat people for free if necessary are seriously underfunded. I could go on a really rant on the mental health system. I quit working in the field because of the short lengths of stay for inpatients and the total frustration of not being able to give patients what they needed. We've pushed most of the seriously mentally ill into the prison system. It's totally ridiculous.