Does a shorter associate program lead to more drop-outs?

[DudeFromAcacia]

In my Acacia chapter, the pledging process still take an entire trimester and our initiation week was after the break also beginning with week 1 of winter term.

From what I can understand, it all depends on how much stuff you can get done with the amount of time you have for the pledges to go through their pledging process. If you can fit in a lot of activities that allow you to dor more bonding and get to know each other better, then you're set. Sometimes you might have an entire term, but if the house doesn't take a lot of initiative to start planning events and activities, then it'll be harder to get a good grip on the pledges who are potential members of the organization. Having more time leads to more potential of creating a stronger bond with the house, but utilizing the time you have is all that matter in my opinion.

As for hazing, it's pretty subjective. I mean, I've heard of certain houses that holds "pledge meetings" and "pledge education" where they get to learn more about the house/organization and stuff like that, and some people think of it as hazing if it's forced onto the pledges and it's an absolute requirement for them to attend it. I think it's pretty silly but that's just my opinion, the pledges are pledging the house for a reason and if it's not important for them to be there to learn about the house that they will about to become a part of then what's the point of pledging in the first place?

[DubaiSis]

I think there's something to feeling like you've "earned it" and I think the definition of hazing needs to be revised. The example above is great. Doing little things like those mentioned are not harmful and build rapport. If someone does something that IS hazing, that should be punished, but sending you to have a note signed by another member just introduces you to another gal and helps you figure out chapter dynamics (who's friends with whom). I also think there should be tests, but having the entire chapter take that test is fine with me. People mention a lot that they don't remember the details of their pledge period. Taking the test 4 or more times would certainly resolve that issue!

I am most definitely not a fan of the slippery slope argument, and I think you can teach 18-22 year olds the difference between fun, challenging and bonding exercises and abusive, dangerous or humiliating ones. And a test that requires you to name the founders, the year of your founding, the Greek alphabet and the other chapters on campus is not too much to ask. If someone won't commit to learning that much in 6 weeks, how much commitment are you really going to get out of her over a lifetime?

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I think there's something to feeling like you've "earned it" and I think the definition of hazing needs to be revised. The example above is great. Doing little things like those mentioned are not harmful and build rapport. If someone does something that IS hazing, that should be punished, but sending you to have a note signed by another member just introduces you to another gal and helps you figure out chapter dynamics (who's friends with whom). I also think there should be tests, but having the entire chapter take that test is fine with me. People mention a lot that they don't remember the details of their pledge period. Taking the test 4 or more times would certainly resolve that issue!

I am most definitely not a fan of the slippery slope argument, and I think you can teach 18-22 year olds the difference between fun, challenging and bonding exercises and abusive, dangerous or humiliating ones. And a test that requires you to name the founders, the year of your founding, the Greek alphabet and the other chapters on campus is not too much to ask. If someone won't commit to learning that much in 6 weeks, how much commitment are you really going to get out of her over a lifetime?

Exactly. And that's what those little exercises did. I was able to figure out best friends, big/littles, etc. I also found out who has a sense of humor, who were the "stricter" sisters, who were the "sympathetic" or sweet sisters, etc.

I also believe a test should have to be passed. We had to take weekly quizzes and then a big test. The weekly quizzes were based on the previous week's "history" part of the pledge education meetings (hence the term, "pledge education."

I'm glad that our Founder's Day ritual goes rather deeply into the lives of our founders, because it reiterates the very important story of how we came to exist. I've met currently active sisters who could not name all the founders or even the national President of the day. I think that should be easy information to hold onto. But that's just my opinion of my personal experience with my fraternity.*

Edited to add: *Fraternity here refers to the official name of Alpha Xi Delta Women's Fraternity.

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

I also believe a test should have to be passed. We had to take weekly quizzes and then a big test. The weekly quizzes were based on the previous week's "history" part of the pledge education meetings (hence the term, "pledge education."

I'm glad that our Founder's Day ritual goes rather deeply into the lives of our founders, because it reiterates the very important story of how we came to exist. I've met currently active sisters who could not name all the founders or even the national President of the day. I think that should be easy information to hold onto. But that's just my opinion of my personal experience with my fraternity.*

Edited to add: *Fraternity here refers to the official name of Alpha Xi Delta Women's Fraternity.

I can't understand why a history test (a flat-out history test) is hazing. I guess it's because only new members do it? What if everyone had to do it? Really, there's no excuse for not knowing the basic facts of the group.

I don't know if I mentioned this in my story, but I am Jewish, and learning about the history of SDT was a really great experience. Our founders were pretty fascinating women for their time, and I'm proud to be part of their vision (especially as a young Jewish woman who has actually felt anti-Semitism. Yes, it still exists). I'm sure that anyone who takes the time to learn about their sorority's history would share my feelings. How could anyone familiar with how their group came to be not feel a sense of pride? The idea that people can wear letters and NOT know what's behind them is just mind-boggling to me.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by melindawarren

I can't understand why a history test (a flat-out history test) is hazing. I guess it's because only new members do it? What if everyone had to do it? Really, there's no excuse for not knowing the basic facts of the group.

As has been noted before in other threads, there are groups that require such tests prior to initiation. Under our national governing documents, you can't get initiated without scoring 100 on the national exam. This is one of those cases of some groups considering it hazing, not a general consensus that it's hazing.

[KSUViolet06]

^^^Is there a thread here somewhere aout which groups have them? I'm curious. I know that there are some NPCs (I think Delta Gamma but I could be totally off base) that HAD them but have gotten rid of them in the past 5 or so years.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

^^^Is there a thread here somewhere aout which groups have them? I'm curious. I know that there are some NPCs (I think Delta Gamma but I could be totally off base) that HAD them but have gotten rid of them in the past 5 or so years.

This is the closest I could find. I didn't read the whole thing, but I did see a post where AOII Angel says AOII has one.

Kappa Delta has a test as well.

[melindawarren]

Sigma Delta Tau has a test.

[pam713]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Chi Omega still have a semester-long pledge program? It would be interesting to see how their retention numbers compare to other NPC groups with six to eight week programs.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

We have a test, but it's not like there is a real consequence for failing it.

[KSUViolet06]

^^^Really? That's weird. It defeats the purpose if you can bomb it and still get initiated.

I forget what the percentage is that you need to earn on ours now to be initiated, but when I was initiated it was 85%. You CAN retake it if you don't pass. However, if you have been attending your Arc Sequence (NM) meetings and participating fully, you should. Most NMs do just because the program prepares you pretty well.

[DudeFromAcacia]

^^^ I believe it's made clear to all the pledges what score they must get in order to be initiated, something along that line. It's all in the trick of rite of passage and initiation.

I actually shouldn't be talking too much about these kind of stuff, although it's a standard in many Greek houses.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by melindawarren

Aside from the bold portion, I see no reason why chapters shouldn't expect everyone to do this. How else do you get to know people?

Originally Posted by 33girl

Because of the bold portion - this is why interviews were banned by NPC groups. Too many people went overboard with what you should have to do to "earn" the interview or signature. We NEVER used them in that way, even something mild like what ree-xi mentions makes me uncomfortable.

Of course, it would have been nice if the people abusing them would have been the only ones punished with their elimination and everyone else could have kept what was for many people their favorite part of pledging...but that would make too much sense.

I was originally going to answer, but 33girl did it for me. I see both sides and was one of those who had to do the interviews thing. It wasn't abused in my chapter when I was a pledge, but I saw it go bad in my chapter and in other chapters on my campus. It would have been nice if the ones who abused it were the only ones punished, but sometimes it became a whole chapter culture to abuse it, so nobody was going to squeal because they were all doing it. The abuse became too wide spread and the insurance companies said "no more". The vast majority of our risk management policies are dicated by what the insurance companies say.

Originally Posted by 33girl

We had a program called KROP - Keep Rushing Our Pledges (I guess now it would be Keep Recruiting Our Pearls) that addressed these concerns.

We used the KROP idea in Alpha Gam also.

We also have a test. Back in my day, it was an oral exam, in front of the whole chapter and was pretty intimidating, honestly. Now it is written with a certain required score to pass and it can be taken as many times as needed. I don't see a test as hazing under these conditions: 1) It's a test that is pushed out by the inter/national organization, not one that is made up by the chapter, 2) it is documented as part of the inter/national program, 3) consequences of not passing the test are known and sanctioned by the inter/national program (not being Initiated versus doing a shot, etc.), 4) new members get multiple opportunities to pass the test, 5) new members know exactly when their test will be and 6) the test is taken in a private way (paper/pencil or online, not in a line-up).

We are also one of the NPCs that has moved toward Member Development rather than new member education. We have an Alpha Experience (for new members), Gamma Experience (2nd and 3rd year) and Delta Experience (senior year). It refocuses programming on our Purpose and educating members throughout their collegiate experience. Some aspects of Delta can include getting to know the alumnae chapters/clubs but it also focuses on their development level in college. It is a more values based, personal development based program that actually reduces overall programming for the members but targeting it toward living our Purpose.

I personally didn't see a big difference in retention when we shortened our new member period (early 90s). I do see big differences when the economy is rough. The other big factor I've seen make a difference is the study abroad phenomena. I see a much higher drop out rate for schools where almost everybody goes away for a term. We all know that one new member class can really change a chapter dynamic and I think when women get back from a semester abroad they are 1) more financially strained and 2) feel out of the loop of chapter happenings. Combine that with the "what's in it for me" trends of the millennials and you see some member loss.

The trend that concerns me more is the lack of alumnae volunteers and international level volunteers. I hope that our Delta program helps turn that around but in general, I'm not seeing younger members joining alumnae groups or volunteering like they used to. I think several trends have led to this ... it used to be THE way to stay in touch with sisters or hear chapter news but with social media, we can know everything that's going on and stay in touch without ever actually talking to anybody from the chapter. We, as women, are busier than we ever have been before. More are going to grad school, more are working mothers with overscheduled kids so it is harder to find time to dedicate to this kind of volunteer work. We are also a more mobile society so we aren't in the area where we went to school. We used to tend to volunteer because we felt a connection to our local chapter. We don't feel those same connections to other chapters and might be hesitant to volunteer where we don't know anybody.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

We had a program called KROP - Keep Rushing Our Pledges (I guess now it would be Keep Recruiting Our Pearls) that addressed these concerns.

Originally Posted by AGDee

We used the KROP idea in Alpha Gam also.

Same here. When I joined AEPhi, AEPhi was just switching over from the old terminology to the new, and I remember the TEC who was placed with my colony saying, "What are we going to call it now that we're switching from 'pledge' to 'new member'? KRONM?" A lot of the onus was placed on the sisters, to make sure NMs got to meet different people in the chapter - rather than the NMs having to get hold of a chapter roster and saying, "OK, I had lunch with Sally yesterday, check; I had coffee with Anne this afternoon, check; I really need to track down Leah, I've called her three times already..."

As for the test, I don't recall if I mentioned this upthread, but we do have a written test that all NMs must pass before initiation. In my day, the entire NM class took the test at a set date and time. If you passed (scored 100%), great. If you failed, you could retake the test as many times as necessary until you passed. I can think of a few instances where NMs had to retake the test, but I can't think of an instance where a NM hadn't passed it before initiation.