Duke's Alpha Omicron Pi chapter to close

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

That's very easy for you to say, but many of the women on this board have been in chapters who have closed, and according to them, it's much more complicated than that. It's really easy for outsiders to say "well isn't it better?" but people don't consider that there are people's feelings involved and the issue is not as black and white as you make it seem. Sure a chapter may have a numbers issue, financial issue, or something like that, but consider that there are women in that chapter who love the organization and have alot invested in that chapter (which has been a big part of their life in college).

Ok, so a chapter of my sorority doesn't match quota and isn't regarded as the "best chapter ever?" So? Who am I to say that they are better off closed?

@bolded: Okay, which is why I asked why these chapters continue operating; thus continuing the trend of women who love XYZ and tried so hard only to have their efforts fall flat and be saddened when their chapter closed. It must be hard to be an alumna and see your chapter close, but I bet it's much harder to have your chapter closed while you're an undergrad.

And I was never referring to chapters that aren't "the best ever"- I was referring to chapters that continuously struggle with recruitment/quota/total/finances/reputation/etc and are clearly the most troubled on their campus.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

It must be hard to be an alumna and see your chapter close, but I bet it's much harder to have your chapter closed while you're an undergrad.

It is. But, 99.9% of those women would do it all over again in a heartbeat. Most of those chapters that people call "failing" are some of the closest, most loyal chapters you will ever encounter. To those women, it is worth all of the heartache. Sorry, but if you haven't been through it, you simply cannot understand it.

Wouldn't you rather have a chapter of your GLO be shut down than be known as the worst chapter on campus that never meets quota, has a bad reputation, etc?

No. Personally, I am not superficial enough to worry about what people think about a certain chapter. If a chapter is struggling, but trying and working their asses off how can anyone be "ashamed" of how a chapter is perceived? I know I am not like everyone. But, those in struggling chapters are no less my sisters than the ones from the most successful chapters. I personally feel that groups should look at their ailing chapters and care for them before worrying about expansion. What does it say if you have x amount of chapters, but 30% of them have been closed?

One more thing, with girls, as has been said before, you MANY times have the "smallest chapter syndrome." Typically, no matter the campus, your smallest chapter will get a stigma. You may be smaller by 5 girls. But, you might soon hear whispers of the so-called "problems" your chapter is having. Next thing you know, your next rush may be harder because of the rumors. The rushees tend to steer away from the smallest group. If this goes on with everyone else maintaining their numbers, you'll eventually close.

But, that doesn't solve the problem. WHY? Because, you'll still have a "smallest chapter." And, the cycle will continue. Bringing new chapters on doesn't solve the problem. They'll just take their place in the numbers rankings.

It's a very odd thing that I don't see happen with guys as much as girls. That's why I think guys just don't understand the whole thing.

[SWTXBelle]

Not to mention the fact that a struggling chapter CAN turn it around and be successful. If, at the first sign of trouble, chapters closed, we'd have very few chapters left.

It is entirely possible to have a chapter full of intelligent, attractive, involved women who are caught in the "death spiral" - they aren't at total, because they are perceived as being "smaller" they can't pledge quota, and so it goes. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and sometimes, with a great deal of work, it can be stopped. But often there comes a time when it is better to close the chapter and hope someday an opportunity to recharter will present itself. While it is in the best interests of the GLO, and the members certainly understand that, it is painful. Terribly painful.

I will also add here that in talking to members of chapters which have closed I have noticed that the chapters themselves tend to be VERY close. Sisters who go through a character-building experience like this make extremely strong bonds. It certainly isn't something you would wish on a chapter, but a bit of a struggle can really draw sisters together.

And I don't know that all fraternity members can "get it". Most fraternities seem to pull charters as a result of some untoward action on the part of the members. It is undoubtly painful too, but at least there is something someone did "wrong" - with sororities, often they've done everything they can think of to turn it around, and despite all their good work they just can't get the numbers. Apples and oranges.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

It is. But, 99.9% of those women would do it all over again in a heartbeat. Most of those chapters that people call "failing" are some of the closest, most loyal chapters you will ever encounter. To those women, it is worth all of the heartache. Sorry, but if you haven't been through it, you simply cannot understand it.

When I went through Rush there was a chapter on my campus that was clearly struggling. They had about 30 members compared to 100+ for the other 9 houses. As superficial 18 year olds we wanted nothing to do with a chapter that was perceived as the "weak" one. Despite those women (and their alums) working their tails off, the chapter closed that fall. While everyone else had a full quota of 42, they pledged less than 10.

Now almost 20 years later, I remember that chapter differently. Those women were so incredibly close, loved their organization, had so much spirit and loyality. They were smart, acheivers on campus, and had so much going for them. They deserved better than their perception on campus and the tent talk during rush.

I have no doubt that many of those members are close today and likely involved in their national organization. Looking back, and I more impressed with that small group of determined women than I am with virtually all of the other organizations on my campus.

Since that time two additional sororities have colonized on my campus, but my heart will always be with those small, devoted ABCs. I hope that one day they can return too.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I don't mean to offend anyone, but why is it such a bad thing when an unsuccessful chapter closes?

Wouldn't you rather have a chapter of your GLO be shut down than be known as the worst chapter on campus that never meets quota, has a bad reputation, etc? (that question is obviously for sorority women)

I think it's a waste of time, money, and effort when these kind of chapters just linger on and on. It also isn't fair to the handful of individuals in a chapter like that who continuously strive to improve their chapter only to make little or no changes.

Many times, the women in those chapters DO NOT CARE that they're the smallest or don't have the biggest house or don't have the most mixers. They pledged for different reasons. It's their national HQ or the campus that is telling them that they suck. And if you hear that enough (and buy into it) it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

It amuses me that guys, who don't have quota or total or have to follow it, would go along with the "doesn't meet quota/total = bad chapter" fallacy.

Lots of chapters don't have big houses to maintain and there is no fucking reason to force them to be huge.

I could care less if a chapter is seen as "worst" on campus if the women are having a fun experience. I was going to add something else but I think I'll keep my mouth shut.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Many times, the women in those chapters DO NOT CARE that they're the smallest or don't have the biggest house or don't have the most mixers. They pledged for different reasons. It's their national HQ or the campus that is telling them that they suck. And if you hear that enough (and buy into it) it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

It amuses me that guys, who don't have quota or total or have to follow it, would go along with the "doesn't meet quota/total = bad chapter" fallacy.

Lots of chapters don't have big houses to maintain and there is no fucking reason to force them to be huge.

I could care less if a chapter is seen as "worst" on campus if the women are having a fun experience. I was going to add something else but I think I'll keep my mouth shut.

Ok, 33girl, now tell us how you really feel. LOL!

But you are right. I think one other complication can come from within the chapter itself when part of the chapter is perfectly happy with being smaller and "less popular" and another part isn't. As you said, some women join for friendship, leadership, etc. and the number and perceived quality of the mixers isn't a big deal to them. Then there are other women who feel the snubs acutely. It can make it challenging within the chapter itself.

Just my two cents.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

I think one other complication can come from within the chapter itself when part of the chapter is perfectly happy with being smaller and "less popular" and another part isn't. As you said, some women join for friendship, leadership, etc. and the number and perceived quality of the mixers isn't a big deal to them. Then there are other women who feel the snubs acutely. It can make it challenging within the chapter itself.

True dat. But I think that there is a way for the women who are interested in being more "social" to nudge the rest of the chapter that way without making them feel like they're compromising their integrity. These are the women who joined because they truly loved the members of the chapter and whatever they do is to make the chapter better and the women's lives happier.

And then there are those who joined it as a "second choice" because they didn't get a bid to their first choice and will never stop pushing for XYZ to turn into ABC. News flash: YOU DIDN'T GET INTO ABC - YOU'RE NOT ABC MATERIAL, DEAL WITH IT. These people are just worried about what others think when they say "I'm an XYZ." We had a thread on here like that.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=76336

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

I agree: I'd prefer to decide with my sisters to close than someone telling me I had to.

And, just as a point of interest: My chapter has 18 actives and 6 NMs on a campus with a total of 120. And I wouldn't trade it for the world!

Agree for the most part. The only reason I think a HQ is justified in closing a chapter is if they are digging themselves deeper and deeper into debt (which certainly does not apply to all struggling chapters, since not all of them have a huge house to fill, and that is usually where a financial problem arises).

[ForeverRoses]

^^^ 33Girl, I would agree with you for the most part. That's why I like the idea that the CHAPTER voted to close, rather than HQ coming in and telling them they are being closed because an executive board voted to close them.

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

^^^ 33Girl, I would agree with you for the most part. That's why I like the idea that the CHAPTER voted to close, rather than HQ coming in and telling them they are being closed because an executive board voted to close them.

I agree: I'd prefer to decide with my sisters to close than someone telling me I had to.

And, just as a point of interest: My chapter has 18 actives and 6 NMs on a campus with a total of 120. And I wouldn't trade it for the world!

[SWTXBelle]

Blink and you missed it!

[sigmaceli]

I may not be as familiar with GC lingo as well as others, but... what do you mean by that, SWTXBelle?

[SWTXBelle]

Several posts were deleted.

[sigmaceli]

LOL, thanks for teaching me the ways!

[sarasmile]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

That's sad to hear. I wonder how the other chapters will do now that the low man on the totum pole is out of the picture? When the bottom chapter goes, there is always a new bottom chapter.

Originally Posted by AGDee

I think when a chapter is really struggling, it becomes exhausting and is not the positive collegiate sisterhood experience that it should be. That's when chapters say "enough already, we should let it go" and vote to close.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Again, I think it bears repeating that it doesn't do chapters any good to talk crap about "Smallest Chapter", because if that one closes, someone has to become the new "Smallest Chapter." I think chapters sometimes forget that.

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

One more thing, with girls, as has been said before, you MANY times have the "smallest chapter syndrome." Typically, no matter the campus, your smallest chapter will get a stigma. You may be smaller by 5 girls. But, you might soon hear whispers of the so-called "problems" your chapter is having. Next thing you know, your next rush may be harder because of the rumors. The rushees tend to steer away from the smallest group. If this goes on with everyone else maintaining their numbers, you'll eventually close.

But, that doesn't solve the problem. WHY? Because, you'll still have a "smallest chapter." And, the cycle will continue. Bringing new chapters on doesn't solve the problem. They'll just take their place in the numbers rankings.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

It is entirely possible to have a chapter full of intelligent, attractive, involved women who are caught in the "death spiral" - they aren't at total, because they are perceived as being "smaller" they can't pledge quota, and so it goes. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and sometimes, with a great deal of work, it can be stopped. But often there comes a time when it is better to close the chapter and hope someday an opportunity to recharter will present itself. While it is in the best interests of the GLO, and the members certainly understand that, it is painful. Terribly painful.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

It is my sincere hope and prayer that the use of the new release figures will help avoid "the death spiral", and that we will see far fewer chapters have to close because of declining numbers.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Many times, the women in those chapters DO NOT CARE that they're the smallest or don't have the biggest house or don't have the most mixers. They pledged for different reasons. It's their national HQ or the campus that is telling them that they suck. And if you hear that enough (and buy into it) it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I could care less if a chapter is seen as "worst" on campus if the women are having a fun experience.

I agree so much with all of the above. My chapter closed several years after I graduated. It still stings to go back to campus and see someone else's letters on our house.

I've seen a lot of so-called "bad" chapters from a variety of sororities on different campuses, and the frustrating thing is that they generally have great women as members. But its all campus politics, and as SWTXBelle mentioned once that "death spiral" starts its difficult to reverse.

Seeing this thread brought back a lot of memories. I wish the best to the AOPi ladies at Duke, and also to any woman who has experienced the closure of their chapter.