Home Sweet Home

[SthrnZeta]

Kelly, not at all. I was simply stating that your org had a man help in your founding also and that it was unfair to call ZTA out for the same thing. I'm asking for clarification but I'd like it without all the snarking, that's all.

And I know Dr. Brown didn't pick your org's colors, I was a Rho Chi at a school that had your org and we had to study up on all the orgs. I know a little bit of history about 6 chapters cuz of that, so I'm not completely in the dark

[navane]

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

I'm not sure how that exact quote offends your org but if it did I apologize.

The quote comes across as implying that Gamma Phi Beta, which is widely known as being the organization which originated the term "sorority", was "merely" a "little sister type" organization. It further implies that your organization, which elected to be called a fraternity, is somehow "better" than those "other girl groups" and that's why you didn't use the term sorority. I'm not sure how to better explain this. (I also think I need the banging head smilie right now.)

I have always been led to believe that the term sorority meant that the org has a brother fraternity that helped in their founding - I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I would very much like to know if that's completely wrong, partially wrong/right, what have you. If we're all wrong about your history, then correct us.

It is wrong. Very, very wrong.

Kelly, not at all. I was simply stating that your org had a man help in your founding

Please define what you mean when you say "help".

Syracuse University's Chancellor, Dr. E. Haven, who happens to the father of one of Gamma Phi Beta's founders, helped suggest several names, of which Gamma Phi Beta was chosen.

A lot of sororities had someone's brother suggest a badge design or a boyfriend recommend a symbol....but it's not like Gamma Phi Beta had a man pick the name, design a badge, write the ritual and draft the constitution.

also and that it was unfair to call ZTA out for the same thing. I'm asking for clarification but I'd like it without all the snarking, that's all.

I'm sorry that we're all having trouble with this, but it's awkward for Gamma Phis to keep having to correct people.

.....Kelly

[fantASTic]

Kelly, you aren't the only one offended by her comments. Alpha Sigma Tau had NO men involved in our founding in ANY way, and we are not a women's fraternity. To imply that we had a 'brother fraternity' is both insulting and ridiculous; you should know very well that NO NPC has a brother fraternity.

I also find it interesting that you think that honoring any man in any way means that the entire org was designed by a man...or at least that's what you're portraying yourself as thinking.

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

If I'm wrong about your history, then correct me.

Fixed that for ya.

My knowledge of Gamma Phi Beta history is limited to what my Triad Sisters have shared with me on GC. I find it odd that you were led to believe that "sorority" meant the organization is coined as such because they had the help of a man. It's the first I've ever heard of this...and I've been reading GC almost 7 years.

FWIW, Alpha Gamma Delta was also founded at Syracuse years after Gamma Phi Beta Sorority. Dr. Wellesley P. Coddington (A MAN!), a professor of philosophy of psychology, noticed there was a need for a new women's group on campus when the campus population doubled. He helped unite our 11 Founders and served as faculty advisor.

Despite the term "sorority" already being at Syracuse, Alpha Gamma Delta is a Women's Fraternity and has been for 103 years now.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by OTW

Fixed that for ya.
I find it odd that you were led to believe that "sorority" meant the organization is coined as such because they had the help of a man. It's the first I've ever heard of this...and I've been reading GC almost 7 years.
.

That's the gist of what we are told, yes. Almost every ZTA can recite the line about ZTA being founded as a fraternity to distinguish themselves from sororities. Took GC to teach me the correct definition.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

That's the gist of what we are told, yes. Almost every ZTA can recite the line about ZTA being founded as a fraternity to distinguish themselves from sororities. Took GC to teach me the correct definition.

Hey Tippie - since you can discuss things without getting your panties in a wad - is there anyway that you would look up a little more info on that statement for us?? It seems weird that ZTA would have a statement that's so (maybe unintentionaly) insulting to almost half the NPC. I'm thinking there's something about it that we're not understanding. Were there local sororities on the campus when ZTA was founded that were little sister type orgs, and that statement was meant to be campus-spesific, possibly?

[catiebug]

I myself would like to know this, as well.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Hey Tippie - since you can discuss things without getting your panties in a wad - is there anyway that you would look up a little more info on that statement for us?? It seems weird that ZTA would have a statement that's so (maybe unintentionaly) insulting to almost half the NPC. I'm thinking there's something about it that we're not understanding. Were there local sororities on the campus when ZTA was founded that were little sister type orgs, and that statement was meant to be campus-spesific, possibly?

[SWTXBelle]

And I'd like to interject that I don't think that those NPC member orgs who had the help of a man (or men) in their founding are somehow inferior.
It's like the thinking giving birth to a baby without any drugs makes you superior- the important thing is the BABY, not the hows and whys of the delivery.
No matter who helped in the founding, the beauty of a GLO is the same - the ideals and creeds of the founders, living on in the members today.

[SthrnZeta]

I never meant to imply anyone was inferior to anyone. Tippie is right, that's what we're taught as new members and honestly, I'd rather be right and taught by the orgs' members than go on believing stuff that's wrong. The statement that defines ZTA as a fraternity can be found on the national website, as well as several other chapters' websites. Obviously, I don't believe that having a man help in a sisterhood's founding is inferior since ZTA itself had Plummer Jones, et al help us in deciding some very important stuff for us - it's all in our history books. As for the definition of sorority, I can tell you this incorrect definition is still being taught and propogated at colleges today and I agree that it needs to be corrected if women are being taught something that's as blatantly incorrect as it now seems to me.

See? No panty waddage here

[scbelle]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

And I'd like to interject that I don't think that those NPC member orgs who had the help of a man (or men) in their founding are somehow inferior.
It's like the thinking giving birth to a baby without any drugs makes you superior- the important thing is the BABY, not the hows and whys of the delivery.
No matter who helped in the founding, the beauty of a GLO is the same - the ideals and creeds of the founders, living on in the members today.

well said.

[FSUZeta]

i found my old pledge manual (1975)and will quote directly from it :

"zeta tau alpha is known as a fraternity, not as a sorority. a "fraternity" is an organization whose members have banded together for reasons of common interest and mutual benefit. there is usually some element of secrecy in its design. the terms "sorority" and "fraternity" are often used interchangeably and it is frequently necessary to do so. some women's organizations prefer "sorority", while others designate the use of "fraternity". current usage seems to favor the latter to distinguish collegiate organizations from high school or business clubs using Greek letter names and calling themselves "sororities." it was the intent of the Founders and confirmed by action at two early conventions that zeta tau alpha be designated as a "fraternity". this was done to distinguish our organization from the sisterhoods organized in connection with men's fraternities, called "sororities."

i would venture to guess that at the time of our founding, there were women's auxillary organizations linked to fraternities, much like little sister organizations of my era, and they were calling themselves sororoties.

honest to goodness, all those years ago, it never crossed my mind that fraternity and sorority could not be used interchangeably. everyone referred to the girls as members of sororities.in fact, i thought it was odd that we are a women's fraternity.

to me, it is "you say potato and i say po tah toe." we all have strong sisterhoods and do good works. enough said!

[SigKapAngel767]

Thank you for clearing that up, FSUZeta!

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

honest to goodness, all those years ago, it never crossed my mind that fraternity and sorority could not be used interchangeably. everyone referred to the girls as members of sororities.in fact, i thought it was odd that we are a women's fraternity.

I found it odd when I was at ChiO's rush party (back when I rushed) and they said "women's fraternity", because they were the only one out of 7 orgs on my campus. ASA, AST, DZ, PhiSig, SigKap, and Sigma are all sororities, and, of course, we had "Sorority Recruitment", so I didn't quite get why ChiO kept saying "fraternity". Throw that under the "dumb reasons for cutting a group" thread...I didn't want to be in a fraternity!!!

[SWTXBelle]

I've never run across a mention of the use of the word "sorority" for auxillary groups while reading about fraternity history - does anyone know of one? My knowledge of fraternity history is hardly comprehensive, so I'd really like to know. I thought little sister groups were more of a 20th century thing - especially since there were so few women attending college at all in the 19th century.

[FSUZeta]

please don't take my comments as verbatim. i was just speculating what those womens organizations affiliated with fraternities in the olden days could have been. i do not know what they actually were, but thought that the nearest thing we might have(or have had) would be little sister groups.