Sigma Alpha Epsilon Announces Historic Change for membership experience

[SOM]

My jaw dropped when I first heard of this. This is so far out of dumb, dumber and dumbest. Down right stupid and so unnecessary. Why did one of our Chapters get involved with a Sorority hazing? http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/l...249127751.html

[LillyPhi]

SOM: My jaw dropped when I first heard of this. This is so far out of dumb, dumber and dumbest. Down right stupid and so unnecessary. Why did one of our Chapters get involved with a Sorority hazing? http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/UConn-Investigating-Possible-Hazing-at-Sorority-249127751.html[/QUOTE]

This adds more fuel to the fire. Now I see why SAE National made their decision to eliminate pledging. It just gets snowballing semester for SAE. When will this stop!!! I hope all SAE chapters/Colonies start realizing that it does NOT pay to haze or get involved with any hazing activities and why your National made their bold decision.

[SAEalumnus]

Speaking as a past chapter president, graduate of our national leadership school (twice), and current chapter advisor, hazing and similar examples of lack of maturity, intelligence, respect, or spine have very real consequences to all involved. It's a major problem that can't be left unaddressed. This new program has some bold -- though not completely original -- ideas. I am happy to see some action taken to contend with this, but am ashamed of our national leadership's decision to disenfranchise the undergraduate chapters of their inalienable right to vote as members of the Convention. The Supreme Council's claim of authority is a smokescreen and an unconscionable work of fiction.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

If any society wants to get away from a hazing culture, is to call it what it really is, bullying.

Plain and simple, kids are hazed or bullied in high school, maybe even elementary or middle school. They then go on to college and are either "hazed" or bullied, or they become the person who does the bullying or hazing.

Hazing is a LEARNED trait...... It will take time, but we have to enforce acceptable behavior early in schools in order for those good people to come to college and stop it.

No amount of laws or charter withdraws will ever stop people from doing this. And as everyone has seen already, it's not just "fraternities" that haze, but many organizations have this in their midsts.....change the culture and you'll lower or eliminate hazing, or bullying as it really is.

I agree with most of what you're saying. I've researched this an I've spoken about the Bullying-to-Hazing Pipeline extensively.

But bullying and hazing are not synonymous. If you try to conflate them, it undermines both.

But if you do indeed eliminate bullying at the middle and high school levels, you have created a generation of youth who will not tolerate hazing.

[itb2a]

Originally Posted by 33girl

SAEalumnus - semi touchy question (shock). Are the guys on the Supreme Council from chapters that do everything by HQ's book, chapters that might not follow all the rules explicitly but pull huge numbers, or a mix of both? I know we all have those "chapters that can do no wrong" and wondered if they were coming from that vantage point.

It would also be interesting to know the chapters of the Supreme Council members to gauge what kind of history they were exposed to in their own experiences. For example, if the chapter was relatively 'young' then maybe that chapter had little or minimal contact with older alumni that could help guide them.

Might also be interesting to know if SAE's alumni associations were involved in the Supreme Council's decision making.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SAEalumnus

Speaking as a past chapter president, graduate of our national leadership school (twice), and current chapter advisor, hazing and similar examples of lack of maturity, intelligence, respect, or spine have very real consequences to all involved. It's a major problem that can't be left unaddressed. This new program has some bold -- though not completely original -- ideas. I am happy to see some action taken to contend with this, but am ashamed of our national leadership's decision to disenfranchise the undergraduate chapters of their inalienable right to vote as members of the Convention. The Supreme Council's claim of authority is a smokescreen and an unconscionable work of fiction.

I know that my organization would not be happy if XB made such a huge change without going through council. I wish SAE the best of luck finding their way through all of this considering the serious issues at play.

[Griffins&Quills]

Eliminating pledging =/= eliminating hazing.

[BlueOwl]

I will reiterate that I am NEVER supportive of activities that could be physically harmful or deeply humiliating.

But....I still maintain that some pledge activities, be they silly, useless, or otherwise, can and DO build bonds between pledge groups and also with the older members. I do feel that there needs to be some sort of right of passage. I think that it is not reasonable to initiate in four days! That is simply not enough time for a chapter to fully evaluate the potential member, nor is it enough time for the potential member to truly know if SAE, or greek life in general, is for him!
I would support more mandatory and on-going education regarding safe practices within chapters.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by BlueOwl

I will reiterate that I am NEVER supportive of activities that could be physically harmful or deeply humiliating.

But....I still maintain that some pledge activities, be they silly, useless, or otherwise, can and DO build bonds between pledge groups and also with the older members. I do feel that there needs to be some sort of right of passage. I think that it is not reasonable to initiate in four days! That is simply not enough time for a chapter to fully evaluate the potential member, nor is it enough time for the potential member to truly know if SAE, or greek life in general, is for him!
I would support more mandatory and on-going education regarding safe practices within chapters.

The issue that often comes up in GC hazing threads is when pledge activities become physically harmful or deeply humiliating. Trust, there is no consensus regarding where the line should be drawn. It varies by GLO cultures, traditions, individual limitations, and so forth. That also speaks to my comments in the "sadly odd" thread.

/lane swerve

[badgeguy]

Originally Posted by BlueOwl

I will reiterate that I am NEVER supportive of activities that could be physically harmful or deeply humiliating.

But....I still maintain that some pledge activities, be they silly, useless, or otherwise, can and DO build bonds between pledge groups and also with the older members. I do feel that there needs to be some sort of right of passage. I think that it is not reasonable to initiate in four days! That is simply not enough time for a chapter to fully evaluate the potential member, nor is it enough time for the potential member to truly know if SAE, or greek life in general, is for him!
I would support more mandatory and on-going education regarding safe practices within chapters.

History would seem to prove otherwise.....
SAE was founded in 1856, right? How many days did it take back then to initiate someone? How long did the founders take to "evaluate" potential members? And new chapters?

[DEVODUDE]

Here is another media cover from Denver TV news about the SAE pledge Ban.....

http://kdvr.com/2014/03/09/one-of-na...bans-pledging/

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

History would seem to prove otherwise.....
SAE was founded in 1856, right? How many days did it take back then to initiate someone? How long did the founders take to "evaluate" potential members? And new chapters?

The first "bid" offered by our Founders was given to Newton Nash Clements (Alabama 1858), who was initiated a week after accepting it. The True Gentleman Experience is a bit more aggressive at a mandatory maximum of four days, but is otherwise historically consistent. The establishment of new chapters was similarly expedient, though I wonder whether the Supreme Council will likewise radically shorten the chartering process (I suspect a double standard will prevail).

[itb2a]

Originally Posted by SAEalumnus

The first "bid" offered by our Founders was given to Newton Nash Clements (Alabama 1858), who was initiated a week after accepting it. The True Gentleman Experience is a bit more aggressive at a mandatory maximum of four days, but is otherwise historically consistent. The establishment of new chapters was similarly expedient, though I wonder whether the Supreme Council will likewise radically shorten the chartering process (I suspect a double standard will prevail).

SAEalumnus:

Wasn't that because your Founders already knew him previously? Seems like I heard they were all former 'pledges' from the University of Alabama Phi Gamma Delta chapter...

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

One question that I'm hoping an SAE can answer, but slap my hand if I'm too close to membership selection:

How difficult is it, comparatively, to remove a pledge? Does the fact that someone has been initiated make it much harder to throw them out of your chapter?

My experience on the NPC side has been that it takes a *lot* to get rid of an NM, and that most orgs don't let chapters make that decision on their own (i.e. it has to be run up the volunteer alumnae chain), so initiating early wouldn't make a huge difference in terms of kicking someone out.

Of course, if a chapter really wants to get rid of someone, they pressure her to leave "voluntarily," but I am curious how much the early initiation matters on this issue alone.

Prior to its recent repeal, Section 47C1 of our national Fraternity Laws provided that a vote of 1/4 of those eligible to vote was sufficient to rescind a pledgeship. If doing so was warranted, it was relatively easy to accomplish.

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by itb2a

SAEalumnus:

Wasn't that because your Founders already knew him previously? Seems like I heard they were all former 'pledges' from the University of Alabama Phi Gamma Delta chapter...

Not so, actually. Each of our eight Founders had received a bid from at least one of the fraternities on campus and our primary Founder was bidded by all of them, but they were all unaffiliated at the time SAE was founded. Clements was well known on campus and heavily sought after by all of the fraternities.