Transwomen and rush.

[clemsongirl]

y'all are being cruel and hurtful talking about LGBTQ+ people like we're all secretly shadowy rapists lurking around your virginal sorority members. spoiler alert: some of us are on this board and have been for a long, long time. I'm nonbinary, and my girlfriend is a trans woman. I am the "they/them warrior" y'all are making fun of (although I don't get super upset about pronouns and basically no trans person IRL I've ever met has). I have never felt less wanted or welcome here than now, and since it's clear to me I am not welcome I'm not going to be posting again. I know that we mock PNMs who flounce when they're mad they got released from their favorite chapter or whatever, but I'm saying I'm leaving to make it clear that saying hurtful things has consequences and there are real people behind these accounts.

I'm glad y'all aren't in charge of chapter membership decisions and I'm glad this board has becoming increasingly irrelevant to today's PNMs if this is the stance members are taking on diversity issues. there's a reason PNMs don't post here anymore and it's because y'all are painfully out of touch with collegians. commenting on the specific allegations the lawsuit makes is one thing, but misgendering the woman and acting as though she joined just to rape every woman in the sorority house is disgusting. and I'm a rape survivor too, so I don't discuss that issue casually.

I hope someday y'all learn kindness and empathy for people who are different from you because up until today that apparently hasn't happened.

[33girl]

I didn’t see anyone use the phrase “they/them warrior” unless it was in one of the linked articles.

And let’s be super clear: if there was a cis woman whose GPA didn’t measure up, who made bizarre comments at rush, and who sat around staring at other women when they were changing clothes or doing yoga, I wouldn’t blame a chapter for wanting her out, either.

This lawsuit wasn’t filed by ancient alumnae or parents. It was filed by current students and recent graduates. Think about how much your chapter meant to you when you were in school. Now think about how bad the situation would have to be for you to try and torpedo it like this. If the members filing the suit are on double secret probation or something that would call their motives into question, then Kappa nationals needs to speak up and say so. If the allegation that anonymous voting was not an option when Artemis was being voted on is untrue, Kappa nationals needs to speak up and say so.
“Parts of this lawsuit are false” doesn’t cut it.

[FSUZeta]

The long and the short of it is, women are being marginalized. Our needs are being ignored. Almost all of the sorority national officers have given in to a minute minority at the expense of the majority, who are too intimidated, for fear of being bullied or ostracized, to voice their concerns. And just like in the Wyoming Kappa case, these decisions were made at the council level, not in an open forum where the majority vote would determine the outcome. Most of us have had sorority sisters who are lesbians. There was/ still is no issue with that, because those sisters are women, and there is no safety risk. Allowing men, even those claiming to identify as women, into our sororities puts our female sisters safety at risk, and that is wrong. What was a safe haven for women is not anymore. And you have to ask yourself why do our national councils think this is okay? Wouldn’t allowing men as members violate Title IX( as it should for sports, but that is another thread for another day).



And Clemsongirl, your post is a great illustration why sisters are reluctant to speak out.

[carnation]

I love the past 2 posts so much.

In the recent past, I taught ESOL and adult ed at a small college. There was a man (not in ESOL but adult ed) who claimed to be a woman and at break time, he would go into the bathroom and lean against the wall and stare at the women. All of our women were either Muslim or Hispanic and they were terrified. Until he finally left, they would go waaayy over to the other side of the college just to use the bathroom.

I am glad that the national media picked up on this.

[Low D Flat]

Kappa nationals needs to speak up and say so

You dismantle specific false allegations in a lawsuit via your pleadings in court. It's foolish to do so in the press before your lawyers have assessed the facts and fully baked their arguments. You risk the whole case if you go on the record and then need to revise what you said. I'm very interested in Kappa's point-by-point response, but I don't expect to see it days after a federal lawsuit was filed when the stakes are high. Whatever else is going on in Kappa leadership, they're making the right call here.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

<snip>
Allowing men, even those claiming to identify as women, into our sororities puts our female sisters safety at risk, and that is wrong. What was a safe haven for women is not anymore. And you have to ask yourself why do our national councils think this is okay? Wouldn’t allowing men as members violate Title IX( as it should for sports, but that is another thread for another day).

Transgender women are women. Not "men ... claiming to identify as women".

That said, I'm convinced the numbers of trans women in the 18-22 age group attending college and seeking sorority membership are minuscule. It's hard to take a case as (seemingly) blatant as this one and attempt to generalize to all trans women seeking membership.

[carnation]

This guy has claimed to be a lizard for years, tattooing his body and forking his tongue and eating bugs...is he a lizard? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toAz...onalGeographic

Rachel Dolezal was excoriated for claiming she was black and heading a major black organization...is she black? Can she be black because she says she's black? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...i-was-being-me

Can I decide that I want to be Asian like 4 of my daughters, just by saying, "OK, I'm Asian now"?

Can I say I'm a lawyer if I want to and people should be shamed for denying it to me?

You have to draw a line and not pick and choose, to be honest.

[ASTalumna06]

clemsongirl, I attempted to send you a PM, but your inbox is full.

Originally Posted by 33girl

And let’s be super clear: if there was a cis woman whose GPA didn’t measure up, who made bizarre comments at rush, and who sat around staring at other women when they were changing clothes or doing yoga, I wouldn’t blame a chapter for wanting her out, either.

Originally Posted by DGTess

Transgender women are women. Not "men ... claiming to identify as women".

That said, I'm convinced the numbers of trans women in the 18-22 age group attending college and seeking sorority membership are minuscule. It's hard to take a case as (seemingly) blatant as this one and attempt to generalize to all trans women seeking membership.

*Quoted the above for emphasis*

IMO, if the allegations are correct, the problem is the national org, not the transgender member who was given a bid.

If this was a cis woman who was pushed through with a sub-par GPA and who made the chapter members uncomfortable, I have to imagine this would still be a major issue. Granted, maybe not a lawsuit, as it might not violate their by-laws, but there SHOULD be the same level of outrage as we're seeing now surrounding this particular case.

I know there are many chapters out there that have been very welcoming of transgender/non-binary members. They are pushing for their orgs to be more inclusive. They feel safe with these members (who have met at least the minimum requirements for membership). There are already thousands of these members within our ranks, and as far as I can tell, there haven't been major safety issues and lawsuits.

If anyone wants to argue against having transgender people as part of NPC sororities due to Title IX, or traditional/historic reasons, or anything else, then make that argument. But don't use this case to do so by painting every transgender person as a predator. Because ultimately, if the allegations are true, this was the fault of the national org, not the creepy, unqualified person who was forced onto the chapter.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Transgender women are women. Not "men ... claiming to identify as women".
.

You and I will have to disagree on this one Tess. I think the key word here is “identify”. Transgender women by definition are males who identify as women. They have penises, they do not have vaginas. They aren’t women, they just think they are. In the children’s book everyone expressed what beautiful clothes the emperor was wearing because they were all afraid to point out he was actually naked, however, it did not change the circumstance.

[bevinpiphi]

Originally Posted by carnation

This guy has claimed to be a lizard for years, tattooing his body and forking his tongue and eating bugs...is he a lizard? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toAz...onalGeographic

Rachel Dolezal was excoriated for claiming she was black and heading a major black organization...is she black? Can she be black because she says she's black? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...i-was-being-me

Can I decide that I want to be Asian like 4 of my daughters, just by saying, "OK, I'm Asian now"?

Can I say I'm a lawyer if I want to and people should be shamed for denying it to me?

You have to draw a line and not pick and choose, to be honest.

Gender identity is far different from species and race, and I think you know that. This whataboutism is gross.

[carnation]

No, it's not. It's all about: what can people claim to be? Can they change their biological sex? Or race? Or even species?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by bevinpiphi

Gender identity is far different from species and race.

Who says?

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

y'all are being cruel and hurtful talking about LGBTQ+ people like we're all secretly shadowy rapists lurking around your virginal sorority members. spoiler alert: some of us are on this board and have been for a long, long time. I'm nonbinary, and my girlfriend is a trans woman. I am the "they/them warrior" y'all are making fun of (although I don't get super upset about pronouns and basically no trans person IRL I've ever met has). I have never felt less wanted or welcome here than now, and since it's clear to me I am not welcome I'm not going to be posting again. I know that we mock PNMs who flounce when they're mad they got released from their favorite chapter or whatever, but I'm saying I'm leaving to make it clear that saying hurtful things has consequences and there are real people behind these accounts.

I'm glad y'all aren't in charge of chapter membership decisions and I'm glad this board has becoming increasingly irrelevant to today's PNMs if this is the stance members are taking on diversity issues. there's a reason PNMs don't post here anymore and it's because y'all are painfully out of touch with collegians. commenting on the specific allegations the lawsuit makes is one thing, but misgendering the woman and acting as though she joined just to rape every woman in the sorority house is disgusting. and I'm a rape survivor too, so I don't discuss that issue casually.

I hope someday y'all learn kindness and empathy for people who are different from you because up until today that apparently hasn't happened.

I’m the one who made the comment about NB pronouns. It was more sarcasm than seriousness….

There are a whole lot of assumptions in your post.

I don’t take sexual assault casually by any stretch of the imagination. Which is why I work in that field professionally. SA ihas altered the entire course of my life not once but twice and I still deal with the aftermath every single day in one way or another. Which is why I believe women should stand up and speak out if they feel unsafe…as these women did. I would never want to see anyone else’s life be affected like mine has.

Which does not mean I’m some weird person who is out of touch with “today’s youth” and secretly hates and judges all LGBTQ people.

I went to that Matthew Shepard rally in 1998 because I, myself, am a member of that community.

Within all communities, people can have different opinions and experiences.

I think this person had ulterior motives. If.you want to extrapolate that into believing I somehow hate and judge all people who happen to be transgender…that is absolutely not true. If I think OJ Simpson or R Kelly are terrible for the things they have done, does that make me racist? No, because my issue is with the actions and not the person’s skin color or gender or gender identity.

I sincerely wish you well and have always enjoyed your content.

ETA since a lot of people may not be aware…this has never been an issue for my particular sorority- as it’s a service sorority and not Title 9 exempt…so we have always had the option to pledge males…on my particular campus, no males were interested…but the option has existed for many years.

Again- the issue is with this specific person and how the sisters felt unsafe.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

You and I will have to disagree on this one Tess. I think the key word here is “identify”. Transgender women by definition are males who identify as women. They have penises, they do not have vaginas. They aren’t women, they just think they are. In the children’s book everyone expressed what beautiful clothes the emperor was wearing because they were all afraid to point out he was actually naked, however, it did not change the circumstance.

My closest transgender friend, Laura, does in fact have a vagina, and no penis. It may have been a surgical intervention, but in fact is so. She should not have to show it to prove her status.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by DGTess

My closest transgender friend, Laura, does in fact have a vagina, and no penis. It may have been a surgical intervention, but in fact is so. She should not have to show it to prove her status.

Exactly.