Indiana University 2014 Recruitment

[pinkmama]

Originally Posted by AOIILisa

I guess I don't understand why this is wrong? Isn't a sister a sister no matter what school she goes to because aren't the ideals for a sorority (and I guess, the selection criteria) the same everywhere?

I know at least one person that did just that - came to my school to become an XYZ then promptly transferred out. And this was 30+ years ago.

When I was at IU we had a transfer from a school on the east coast. She spent about two weeks coming over for dinner, attending events with us and then during chapter we voted on accepting her into our house so I don't think transfers are always accepted. Now granted I don't think anyone voted "no" can't remember but I am sure it could happen.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by AOIILisa

I guess I don't understand why this is wrong? Isn't a sister a sister no matter what school she goes to because aren't the ideals for a sorority (and I guess, the selection criteria) the same everywhere?

I know at least one person that did just that - came to my school to become an XYZ then promptly transferred out. And this was 30+ years ago.

Yes, it used to be done - esp in the South where Susie had no chance to be an AAA at Big State U so she went to tiny state college and pledge AAA and then transferred to Big State U. These smaller institutions actually have a name associated with this - it's a "feeder school" because they feed additional members to the bigger school. Very frowned upon now....

[hopeful mom]

Originally Posted by Lalucas

paper resume vs personalities

I concur with FSUZETA above... you are all thinking like mom's in a rationale way...thinking that the rush process is about credentials like philanthropic activities instead of social aspects.

“In high school she was Homecoming court and prom princess as well as varsity dance captain and class secretary- and with a friend from home created an foundation that single handedly raised a quarter of a million dollars for a cancer family center after her friends dad passed from a brain tumor... She got a 3.5 gpa first semester at IU and participated at several campus philanthropic events-“
“did not get a bid, she has a very similar past, she was in the honor society , volunteered everyday with special needs all thru high school instead of taking study hall, has done mission work in Africa and The Dominican Republic.”


instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming. When girls are voting/discussing the PNM's would they even know the resume or GPA of your daughter? doubtful. Do you think it is a blind vote? the current members aren't looking at it that way...

What I"m trying to say is that it is unfortunate that the valuable contributitions that your daughters have already or will contribute to an adult society are not what is of value during recruitment. Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU.

that said.. Dance Marathon is a big event in the fall where contacts and relationships can be made...that said word on the street is that many people join those committees for their resumes and the parties related to it. oh yeah there is that one weekend too.

I seriously don't know how to respond to this. I really try to keep things positive but I am just shocked that you said "instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming." and "Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU." My daughter is gorgeous, and I'm sure everyone thinks their daughter is as well. She knows how to have a good time, but if she has to prove that she can "get drunk" and party to get into a sorority at IU I think I would rather her not get in. However you seem very proud that that is what your daughter spends her time doing... But truly not sure I would suggest that other successful girls do the same..

[Lalucas]

the fact that you are shocked that sororities consider frats and party invitations when choosing girls makes the need for my post even more apparent. But no, i am not proud of this but it is a fact of sorority life. If you heard the drunk party/formal stories that I have then you would understand better. And the Greeks that follow this thread could tell you even more. Sure sororities do great philo support(but why would they have to award points for participating if it was thier main focus of joining) but the social aspects are big ie which frat will (or wont pair with you). The other thing that people don't talk about is that certain frats always pair with certain sororities...quite the pecking order. why else do they spend all of this first week parading their new girls to the frats?

Hopeful Mom said....I am just shocked that you said "instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming." and "Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU." My daughter is gorgeous, and I'm sure everyone thinks their daughter is as well. She knows how to have a good time,

but if she has to prove that she can "get drunk" and party to get into a sorority at IU I think I would rather her not get in. If she got in do you expect her to abstain from all frat events? maybe some girls do... sober drivers are always needed and appreciated by the other girls.

[FSUZeta]

TennisMom, I am so glad that you mentioned specifics where improvements could make a significant impact on rush outcomes. Brava!!!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Does anyone know about historical numbers of IU PNM's? Indiana was on my radar when I was selecting a school back in the late 90's, and I don't remember hearing that it was especially competitive, but I was also totally clueless on this type of thing. Has the bed rush always been a disaster, or was there a time when 1000 PNM's were rushing, and it made *some* sense that the chapters with bigger physical houses took more women?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Does anyone know about historical numbers of IU PNM's? Indiana was on my radar when I was selecting a school back in the late 90's, and I don't remember hearing that it was especially competitive, but I was also totally clueless on this type of thing. Has the bed rush always been a disaster, or was there a time when 1000 PNM's were rushing, and it made *some* sense that the chapters with bigger physical houses took more women?

I'm thinking that there were probably little sister organizations in place till the mid-late 80s and a lot of women chose that option instead, so the bed rush problem may not have been such a glaring issue.

[silver_blue]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Does anyone know about historical numbers of IU PNM's? Indiana was on my radar when I was selecting a school back in the late 90's, and I don't remember hearing that it was especially competitive, but I was also totally clueless on this type of thing. Has the bed rush always been a disaster, or was there a time when 1000 PNM's were rushing, and it made *some* sense that the chapters with bigger physical houses took more women?

Just emailed my mom for her take, as she pledged an IU sorority in 1981. She says that her pledge class was 30 women and house total was 80 then (can't remember if that was set by PHA or her chapter). Her junior year, total was raised to 90 and they allowed senior live outs for the first time, increasing pledge class totals by 10. EDIT: she doesn't remember if PHA set total then, but she does remember that in 1983, they had 10 more girls living in the house because of a campus-wide mandate to increase numbers.

She's been reading this thread too, and says that the quota problem still existed in the early 80s (kind of the hey day of IU greek life, before a lot of crack downs happened) and that there were only 18 chapters on campus then.

In 1983, IU made national news for having the largest rush in the country with 1600 women. My mom was a rush counselor/rho gamma that year and remembered a lot of heartbreak. She says it was even worse then because you only got to attend 2 pref rounds, so a LOT of cross-cutting happened resulting in bidless women.

In re: 33girl's comment about little sis programs, my mom says those were more of a prelude to sorority membership more than anything, that lil sis women had easier times joining sororities because of their lil sis involvement.

Phi Mu came to campus in 1980 and had the entire chapter live in the Poplars building (then apartments, now offices), which she said helped with the stigma of being unhoused.

Basically what I'm getting at here is that these same issues have been around for DECADES at IU and nothing ever changes because the women in the greek system are winners of IU's hunger games-style recruitment, they like being elitists and could care less that they're excluding around 40% of the women who also would like to go greek. Something has to change, but I seriously doubt it ever will. I'm only 25, but a huge IU supporter still, even though I ended up transferring. A daughter of mine will never attend IU because of my experiences there.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by silver_blue

Just emailed my mom for her take, as she pledged an IU sorority in 1981. She says that her pledge class was 30 women and house total was 80 then (can't remember if that was set by PHA or her chapter). Her junior year, total was raised to 90 and they allowed senior live outs for the first time, increasing pledge class totals by 10.

She's been reading this thread too, and says that the quota problem still existed in the early 80s (kind of the hey day of IU greek life, before a lot of crack downs happened) and that there were only 18 chapters on campus then.

In 1983, IU made national news for having the largest rush in the country with 1600 women. My mom was a rush counselor/rho gamma that year and remembered a lot of heartbreak. She says it was even worse then because you only got to attend 2 pref rounds, so a LOT of cross-cutting happened resulting in bidless women.

In re: 33girl's comment about little sis programs, my mom says those were more of a prelude to sorority membership more than anything, that lil sis women had easier times joining sororities because of their lil sis involvement.

Phi Mu came to campus in 1980 and had the entire chapter live in the Poplars building (then apartments, now offices), which she said helped with the stigma of being unhoused.

Basically what I'm getting at here is that these same issues have been around for DECADES at IU and nothing ever changes because the women in the greek system are winners of IU's hunger games-style recruitment, they like being elitists and could care less that they're excluding around 40% of the women who also would like to go greek. Something has to change, but I seriously doubt it ever will. I'm only 25, but a huge IU supporter still, even though I ended up transferring. A daughter of mine will never attend IU because of my experiences there.

Thank you for this perspective! It certainly answers my question about these issues existing for a very long time.

[PJS]

Originally Posted by Lalucas

paper resume vs personalities

I concur with FSUZETA above... you are all thinking like mom's in a rationale way...thinking that the rush process is about credentials like philanthropic activities instead of social aspects.

“In high school she was Homecoming court and prom princess as well as varsity dance captain and class secretary- and with a friend from home created an foundation that single handedly raised a quarter of a million dollars for a cancer family center after her friends dad passed from a brain tumor... She got a 3.5 gpa first semester at IU and participated at several campus philanthropic events-“
“did not get a bid, she has a very similar past, she was in the honor society , volunteered everyday with special needs all thru high school instead of taking study hall, has done mission work in Africa and The Dominican Republic.”


instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming. When girls are voting/discussing the PNM's would they even know the resume or GPA of your daughter? doubtful. Do you think it is a blind vote? the current members aren't looking at it that way...

What I"m trying to say is that it is unfortunate that the valuable contributitions that your daughters have already or will contribute to an adult society are not what is of value during recruitment. Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU.

that said.. Dance Marathon is a big event in the fall where contacts and relationships can be made...that said word on the street is that many people join those committees for their resumes and the parties related to it. oh yeah there is that one weekend too.

Originally Posted by hopeful mom

I seriously don't know how to respond to this. I really try to keep things positive but I am just shocked that you said "instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming." and "Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU." My daughter is gorgeous, and I'm sure everyone thinks their daughter is as well. She knows how to have a good time, but if she has to prove that she can "get drunk" and party to get into a sorority at IU I think I would rather her not get in. However you seem very proud that that is what your daughter spends her time doing... But truly not sure I would suggest that other successful girls do the same..

To hopeful mom: I really don't think lalucas meant what you think you read. She didn't say she was "very proud"; she was making an observation and just trying to call a spade a spade. That wasn't meant to make you feel worse or insinuate that your daughter needs to party to get in. She commented that you are thinking like a mom in a rational way, but these are often immature 18-21 year olds. Sometimes their decisions are based on wanting have their house be popular, not greater philanthropic or scholastic goals.

This isn't my campus, and my daughters have since graduated from college life. However, I well remember the frustrations they had at sisters wanting to pledge girls because they were "so cute" but didn't have the activities and GPAs (and sometimes moral character) that should have been more important. By reading these boards, you would think every girl that goes through recruitment on a competitive campuses and successfully pledges has a 4.0 and cured cancer. Umm, no. A PNM does have to have a certain baseline of grades and activities, but past that so much is networking and first impressions.

[cinder1965]

Originally Posted by silver_blue

Just emailed my mom for her take, as she pledged an IU sorority in 1981. She says that her pledge class was 30 women and house total was 80 then (can't remember if that was set by PHA or her chapter). Her junior year, total was raised to 90 and they allowed senior live outs for the first time, increasing pledge class totals by 10. EDIT: she doesn't remember if PHA set total then, but she does remember that in 1983, they had 10 more girls living in the house because of a campus-wide mandate to increase numbers.

She's been reading this thread too, and says that the quota problem still existed in the early 80s (kind of the hey day of IU greek life, before a lot of crack downs happened) and that there were only 18 chapters on campus then.

In 1983, IU made national news for having the largest rush in the country with 1600 women. My mom was a rush counselor/rho gamma that year and remembered a lot of heartbreak. She says it was even worse then because you only got to attend 2 pref rounds, so a LOT of cross-cutting happened resulting in bidless women.

In re: 33girl's comment about little sis programs, my mom says those were more of a prelude to sorority membership more than anything, that lil sis women had easier times joining sororities because of their lil sis involvement.

Phi Mu came to campus in 1980 and had the entire chapter live in the Poplars building (then apartments, now offices), which she said helped with the stigma of being unhoused.

Basically what I'm getting at here is that these same issues have been around for DECADES at IU and nothing ever changes because the women in the greek system are winners of IU's hunger games-style recruitment, they like being elitists and could care less that they're excluding around 40% of the women who also would like to go greek. Something has to change, but I seriously doubt it ever will. I'm only 25, but a huge IU supporter still, even though I ended up transferring. A daughter of mine will never attend IU because of my experiences there.

I went through rush 84-85 at Purdue when we still had bed quota, like most campuses...let me tell it was brutal. We had some 1500 girls rushing for 500 spots at the max (I think there were 16 houses back then,I may be slightly off on my numbers but not too far off!). Five of us on my dorm floor rushed together and only two got bids (one of us was a legacy and her sister was a senior in the house). All of us were invited to 2 prefs (the max back then). I am quite sure all of us maxed our options. I stayed up till 2 am comforting the three who did not get bids, they were sobbing. I almost did not take my bid because it was so emotionally distressing. In the end, I did take my bid but fully expected to drop out, obviously I didn't . I can remember that awful experience like it was yesterday....

Fast forward, Purdue has added at least three chapters (maybe more) since I was there AND now does campus total. IT WORKS FINE. I have no idea how they transitioned or what prompted or provided the leadership....maybe someone on GC knows this history???? Anyway, Purdue did it and the Greek system seems healthy and vibrant to me.

It continues to be perplexing to me why IU can't do this too.....its just ridiculous.

[DubaiSis]

Really the only viable solution as I see it is to choose a school with a more well-rounded and egalitarian social structure. And then let IU know that you chose Illinois or Iowa or Ohio State instead because of this issue. It is all about the Benjamin's, after all. IU is a good school but there are a LOT of good schools who don't put their girls through this.

And by the way, transferring to a different school IS an option. Again, if you do something this extreme make sure the school knows why.

[silver_blue]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Really the only viable solution as I see it is to choose a school with a more well-rounded and egalitarian social structure. And then let IU know that you chose Illinois or Iowa or Ohio State instead because of this issue. It is all about the Benjamin's, after all. IU is a good school but there are a LOT of good schools who don't put their girls through this.

And by the way, transferring to a different school IS an option. Again, if you do something this extreme make sure the school knows why.

Ding ding ding! I wish I would have had the foresight at 19 to tell IU the reason for my transfer.

Future PNMs who might have stumble upon this post in the future: if being greek is 100% something crucial to your future college experience, I beg of you, please do not go to IU, ESPECIALLY if you are out of state! You can get similar experiences at Illinois, Purdue, Kentucky, etc. and they, like 99.9% of other schools, have a "normal" quota based recruitment system where (if you maximize your options) you are very likely to have a successful recruitment.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by silver_blue

Ding ding ding! I wish I would have had the foresight at 19 to tell IU the reason for my transfer.

Future PNMs who might have stumble upon this post in the future: if being greek is 100% something crucial to your future college experience, I beg of you, please do not go to IU, ESPECIALLY if you are out of state! You can get similar experiences at Illinois, Purdue, Kentucky, etc. and they, like 99.9% of other schools, have a "normal" quota based recruitment system where (if you maximize your options) you are very likely to have a successful recruitment.

I don't think you are wrong about considering other schools if you really want to be Greek, but I would advise a woman that, as important as it seems when you are 18, taking on huge debt to go out of state is probably *not* worth it just to be in a sorority. As valuable as my sorority membership is to me, I would hope that parents of Indiana teenagers help them see the long-term big picture of what happens when you go out of state.

ETA: Though obviously Purdue is in-state, and Ball State is also an option with healthy Greek Life, IIRC.

[silver_blue]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I don't think you are wrong about considering other schools if you really want to be Greek, but I would advise a woman that, as important as it seems when you are 18, taking on huge debt to go out of state is probably *not* worth it just to be in a sorority. As valuable as my sorority membership is to me, I would hope that parents of Indiana teenagers help them see the long-term big picture of what happens when you go out of state.

ETA: Though obviously Purdue is in-state, and Ball State is also an option with healthy Greek Life, IIRC.

Totally agree. I meant that if you are out of state (ie not an Indiana) resident that it probably not be worth it to attend IU if you are dead-set on being in a sorority. If you are in state, Purdue and Ball State are great options if you want a big public school, and with scholarships, the cost of schools like Butler and Depauw are also options and they both have thriving greek systems too.