Indiana University 2014 Recruitment

[FSUZeta]

TennisMom, I am so glad that you mentioned specifics where improvements could make a significant impact on rush outcomes. Brava!!!

[Lalucas]

on last word to all listening and especially IU Mom with the dancer daughter, I encourage all that great friendships are all around you. I would think that dancers would be a good example of a core group that will be friends forever much like sorority sisterhood, majors are another avenue for developing those friendship. in fact many on this site could probably tell you that freshman dorm friendships (both male and female) are strong bonds.

I was surprised by how much my daughter's HS friends mixed it up at social events since they all went to dif sororities. also once you become a Junior or over 21 whichever comes first... social life moves from the basement of the frat for free drinks to the bars downtown.

much more mixing of Greek and GDI at the bars so it opens up for all.

It is just easier when you all live together... easier to hang out and easier to become involved in the drama.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by CookiesNCream

No one ever said that those chapters have to bear the burden of taking more members than they can "comfortably accomodate." Why should ASA only have to take 45 girls when other housed chapters are forced to take more than that? They don't need to worry about issues that housed chapters do, such as not having enough beds, parking spots, food, or a comfortable living space (we already sleep in cold dorms and share rooms with 2+ people in order to fit as many people into the houses as possible). HUNDREDS of women are going unmatched this year so that chapters that originally colonized in order to give more women the opportunity to go greek can suddenly drastically reduce their quotas? That doesn't sound right to me.

Also I'm not sure why you put unhoused in quotes when that's what those chapters are. Do you want me to call them "off-campus" like many other people do? Because that's obviously incorrect terminology.

Originally Posted by CookiesNCream

Not once did I imply that Theta Phi and ASA should take all of the "rejects" who don't get bids from other chapters. But, since space to house women isn't an issue for them, I was curious as to why their quotas were lower than expected. They can very well pick and choose who they want; I'm sure that out of the 300 or so girls who went unmatched this year that there are girls who preferenced both chapters and didn't get them back.

Originally Posted by TPAGirlie

Tpan originally had 52. That is the number they have recruited at the last two years. College panhellenic asked all groups to consider a larger number and they increased to 65. Generally speaking they will be somewhere in the 185 range.

I'm sorry but this is BULLSHIT. Just because it's IU with the assy bed rush does not mean the right to membership selection should go out the window. If a chapter decides there are only 3 women coming through rush that meet the standards they have set locally and nationally - THEY ONLY HAVE TO TAKE THREE, they do not have to recruit to quota, if that's ok'ed by their regional/national leadership. That goes for ANY campus. Panhellenic has ZERO right to ask chapters to take women that don't match their standards, or to take more women than the chapter can handle internally. I'm proud as hell of my sisters for not caving to such a ridiculous and obviously discriminatory request.

Originally Posted by Lalucas

Can someone explain how transfer in works?

I know of several girls who did that at IU and became part of a house as sophomores that probably wouldn't have been chosen into as a freshman. are there policies etc? They probably don't have to take you but maybe they usually do....sisterhood and all.

for any future PNM thinking of IU and wanting to increase the odds of getting into an IU sorority... what about going somewhere else and joining a sorority there

No. No. No no no no no. This is awful and terrible and shady and rude and about a zillion other bad things.

[hopeful mom]

Originally Posted by Lalucas

paper resume vs personalities

I concur with FSUZETA above... you are all thinking like mom's in a rationale way...thinking that the rush process is about credentials like philanthropic activities instead of social aspects.

“In high school she was Homecoming court and prom princess as well as varsity dance captain and class secretary- and with a friend from home created an foundation that single handedly raised a quarter of a million dollars for a cancer family center after her friends dad passed from a brain tumor... She got a 3.5 gpa first semester at IU and participated at several campus philanthropic events-“
“did not get a bid, she has a very similar past, she was in the honor society , volunteered everyday with special needs all thru high school instead of taking study hall, has done mission work in Africa and The Dominican Republic.”


instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming. When girls are voting/discussing the PNM's would they even know the resume or GPA of your daughter? doubtful. Do you think it is a blind vote? the current members aren't looking at it that way...

What I"m trying to say is that it is unfortunate that the valuable contributitions that your daughters have already or will contribute to an adult society are not what is of value during recruitment. Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU.

that said.. Dance Marathon is a big event in the fall where contacts and relationships can be made...that said word on the street is that many people join those committees for their resumes and the parties related to it. oh yeah there is that one weekend too.

I seriously don't know how to respond to this. I really try to keep things positive but I am just shocked that you said "instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming." and "Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU." My daughter is gorgeous, and I'm sure everyone thinks their daughter is as well. She knows how to have a good time, but if she has to prove that she can "get drunk" and party to get into a sorority at IU I think I would rather her not get in. However you seem very proud that that is what your daughter spends her time doing... But truly not sure I would suggest that other successful girls do the same..

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Does anyone know about historical numbers of IU PNM's? Indiana was on my radar when I was selecting a school back in the late 90's, and I don't remember hearing that it was especially competitive, but I was also totally clueless on this type of thing. Has the bed rush always been a disaster, or was there a time when 1000 PNM's were rushing, and it made *some* sense that the chapters with bigger physical houses took more women?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Does anyone know about historical numbers of IU PNM's? Indiana was on my radar when I was selecting a school back in the late 90's, and I don't remember hearing that it was especially competitive, but I was also totally clueless on this type of thing. Has the bed rush always been a disaster, or was there a time when 1000 PNM's were rushing, and it made *some* sense that the chapters with bigger physical houses took more women?

I'm thinking that there were probably little sister organizations in place till the mid-late 80s and a lot of women chose that option instead, so the bed rush problem may not have been such a glaring issue.

[silver_blue]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Does anyone know about historical numbers of IU PNM's? Indiana was on my radar when I was selecting a school back in the late 90's, and I don't remember hearing that it was especially competitive, but I was also totally clueless on this type of thing. Has the bed rush always been a disaster, or was there a time when 1000 PNM's were rushing, and it made *some* sense that the chapters with bigger physical houses took more women?

Just emailed my mom for her take, as she pledged an IU sorority in 1981. She says that her pledge class was 30 women and house total was 80 then (can't remember if that was set by PHA or her chapter). Her junior year, total was raised to 90 and they allowed senior live outs for the first time, increasing pledge class totals by 10. EDIT: she doesn't remember if PHA set total then, but she does remember that in 1983, they had 10 more girls living in the house because of a campus-wide mandate to increase numbers.

She's been reading this thread too, and says that the quota problem still existed in the early 80s (kind of the hey day of IU greek life, before a lot of crack downs happened) and that there were only 18 chapters on campus then.

In 1983, IU made national news for having the largest rush in the country with 1600 women. My mom was a rush counselor/rho gamma that year and remembered a lot of heartbreak. She says it was even worse then because you only got to attend 2 pref rounds, so a LOT of cross-cutting happened resulting in bidless women.

In re: 33girl's comment about little sis programs, my mom says those were more of a prelude to sorority membership more than anything, that lil sis women had easier times joining sororities because of their lil sis involvement.

Phi Mu came to campus in 1980 and had the entire chapter live in the Poplars building (then apartments, now offices), which she said helped with the stigma of being unhoused.

Basically what I'm getting at here is that these same issues have been around for DECADES at IU and nothing ever changes because the women in the greek system are winners of IU's hunger games-style recruitment, they like being elitists and could care less that they're excluding around 40% of the women who also would like to go greek. Something has to change, but I seriously doubt it ever will. I'm only 25, but a huge IU supporter still, even though I ended up transferring. A daughter of mine will never attend IU because of my experiences there.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by silver_blue

Just emailed my mom for her take, as she pledged an IU sorority in 1981. She says that her pledge class was 30 women and house total was 80 then (can't remember if that was set by PHA or her chapter). Her junior year, total was raised to 90 and they allowed senior live outs for the first time, increasing pledge class totals by 10.

She's been reading this thread too, and says that the quota problem still existed in the early 80s (kind of the hey day of IU greek life, before a lot of crack downs happened) and that there were only 18 chapters on campus then.

In 1983, IU made national news for having the largest rush in the country with 1600 women. My mom was a rush counselor/rho gamma that year and remembered a lot of heartbreak. She says it was even worse then because you only got to attend 2 pref rounds, so a LOT of cross-cutting happened resulting in bidless women.

In re: 33girl's comment about little sis programs, my mom says those were more of a prelude to sorority membership more than anything, that lil sis women had easier times joining sororities because of their lil sis involvement.

Phi Mu came to campus in 1980 and had the entire chapter live in the Poplars building (then apartments, now offices), which she said helped with the stigma of being unhoused.

Basically what I'm getting at here is that these same issues have been around for DECADES at IU and nothing ever changes because the women in the greek system are winners of IU's hunger games-style recruitment, they like being elitists and could care less that they're excluding around 40% of the women who also would like to go greek. Something has to change, but I seriously doubt it ever will. I'm only 25, but a huge IU supporter still, even though I ended up transferring. A daughter of mine will never attend IU because of my experiences there.

Thank you for this perspective! It certainly answers my question about these issues existing for a very long time.

[DubaiSis]

Really the only viable solution as I see it is to choose a school with a more well-rounded and egalitarian social structure. And then let IU know that you chose Illinois or Iowa or Ohio State instead because of this issue. It is all about the Benjamin's, after all. IU is a good school but there are a LOT of good schools who don't put their girls through this.

And by the way, transferring to a different school IS an option. Again, if you do something this extreme make sure the school knows why.

[cinder1965]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

What you said is bolded above. Why should ASA be picked on because they are unhoused? The current rule is chapters pick their own quota. Period. ALL chapters should be forced to comply with market factors, but don't look at ASA and TPA and expect them to suddenly take everyone the housed chapters don't want. Just because they were asked to colonize to relieve stress on the system doesn't mean they don't get a say in the matter. It just isn't feasible. The plan is a bad plan and it won't solve to problem so expecting these to chapters to be the solution is unrealistic. Let them do what they need to do to survive and don't blame them for the unhappy women left out in the cold.

100% agree. Well said.

[silver_blue]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Really the only viable solution as I see it is to choose a school with a more well-rounded and egalitarian social structure. And then let IU know that you chose Illinois or Iowa or Ohio State instead because of this issue. It is all about the Benjamin's, after all. IU is a good school but there are a LOT of good schools who don't put their girls through this.

And by the way, transferring to a different school IS an option. Again, if you do something this extreme make sure the school knows why.

Ding ding ding! I wish I would have had the foresight at 19 to tell IU the reason for my transfer.

Future PNMs who might have stumble upon this post in the future: if being greek is 100% something crucial to your future college experience, I beg of you, please do not go to IU, ESPECIALLY if you are out of state! You can get similar experiences at Illinois, Purdue, Kentucky, etc. and they, like 99.9% of other schools, have a "normal" quota based recruitment system where (if you maximize your options) you are very likely to have a successful recruitment.

[PJS]

Originally Posted by Lalucas

paper resume vs personalities

I concur with FSUZETA above... you are all thinking like mom's in a rationale way...thinking that the rush process is about credentials like philanthropic activities instead of social aspects.

“In high school she was Homecoming court and prom princess as well as varsity dance captain and class secretary- and with a friend from home created an foundation that single handedly raised a quarter of a million dollars for a cancer family center after her friends dad passed from a brain tumor... She got a 3.5 gpa first semester at IU and participated at several campus philanthropic events-“
“did not get a bid, she has a very similar past, she was in the honor society , volunteered everyday with special needs all thru high school instead of taking study hall, has done mission work in Africa and The Dominican Republic.”


instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming. When girls are voting/discussing the PNM's would they even know the resume or GPA of your daughter? doubtful. Do you think it is a blind vote? the current members aren't looking at it that way...

What I"m trying to say is that it is unfortunate that the valuable contributitions that your daughters have already or will contribute to an adult society are not what is of value during recruitment. Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU.

that said.. Dance Marathon is a big event in the fall where contacts and relationships can be made...that said word on the street is that many people join those committees for their resumes and the parties related to it. oh yeah there is that one weekend too.

Originally Posted by hopeful mom

I seriously don't know how to respond to this. I really try to keep things positive but I am just shocked that you said "instead of like girls looking for future roommates and new sisters that will attract the "hot frats" to choose your house for homecoming." and "Philo events are not the main focus of IU sorority girls life... but parties and boys and drinking are. School work and intensive career choices like dance majors are not the emphasis for the sorority life that I see from my daughter and her friends who are all in various sororities at IU." My daughter is gorgeous, and I'm sure everyone thinks their daughter is as well. She knows how to have a good time, but if she has to prove that she can "get drunk" and party to get into a sorority at IU I think I would rather her not get in. However you seem very proud that that is what your daughter spends her time doing... But truly not sure I would suggest that other successful girls do the same..

To hopeful mom: I really don't think lalucas meant what you think you read. She didn't say she was "very proud"; she was making an observation and just trying to call a spade a spade. That wasn't meant to make you feel worse or insinuate that your daughter needs to party to get in. She commented that you are thinking like a mom in a rational way, but these are often immature 18-21 year olds. Sometimes their decisions are based on wanting have their house be popular, not greater philanthropic or scholastic goals.

This isn't my campus, and my daughters have since graduated from college life. However, I well remember the frustrations they had at sisters wanting to pledge girls because they were "so cute" but didn't have the activities and GPAs (and sometimes moral character) that should have been more important. By reading these boards, you would think every girl that goes through recruitment on a competitive campuses and successfully pledges has a 4.0 and cured cancer. Umm, no. A PNM does have to have a certain baseline of grades and activities, but past that so much is networking and first impressions.

[Iu mom]

This is so sad. My daughters rho gam has called (not texted) to check on her and take her to dinner. She is just as confused she said as my daughter. Sadly we love all the other aspects of IU - her major and the campus - it's just this situation. She will keep her chin up and be sure to attend sorority open events- she just found out that a house she loved took 36 legacies which was almost their whole class. My sorority didn't honor her as a legacy...

[silver_blue]

Originally Posted by Iu mom

This is so sad. My daughters rho gam has called (not texted) to check on her and take her to dinner. She is just as confused she said as my daughter. Sadly we love all the other aspects of IU - her major and the campus - it's just this situation. She will keep her chin up and be sure to attend sorority open events- she just found out that a house she loved took 36 legacies which was almost their whole class. My sorority didn't honor her as a legacy...

I know this from my school's recruitment and without delving into membership selection info, each sorority has different policies regarding how they treat legacies. My sister was in a different sorority at my alma mater and she said it was really hard for them to cut a legacy, while I know that's not the case for other groups.

I feel for your daughter, IU mom, please PM me (this goes to anyone really) if you need to talk/vent about the disappointments of IU rush and/or the details of my transferring and joining a sorority at my new school.

[Katmandu]

As long as the "survivors" of IU recruitment feel like they have won something singular, rare and exclusive, they will feel duty bound to perpetuate the system, no matter how much they claim to feel for the PNMs left out in the cold, or how much they hate the system. If they truly hated it, they would agitate to change it. Witness the women who stood up to alums at Alabama and said, "Enough!".

I went to a school in which living in was the norm and expected for 3 years--to the point where a sister who made plans to live out her senior year was voted out by the members and her membership rescinded. I appreciate the value and the advantages of having everyone live in--it is an incredible living experience. It is just not practical in some systems anymore with housing costs astronomical and greek membership rising. Things change, bringing blessings and challenges. Greek life should be organic, not static if we want to continue to thrive. I wish my organization would address this at IU, but they seem to be following the sheeple.