Pledge possibly lying about military service..

[MaggieXi]

As a child of a Vietnam War Veteran, I saw my father come across at least 1 guy who was lying about service during Nam. It turned out the one guy went as far as purchasing a purple heart from an estate auction (I still can't believe an auction would auction off a veteran's purple heart!) and had dog tags made. What made my father and other nam vets suspicious of this guy was that when they started asking questions, this guy just couldn't keep his stories straight -- one day he would say he was stationed one place, the next day some other place. Eventually the lies crumbled around him and he was outed.

I hope that this guy isn't lying. That the ROTC guys are just bitter or caught up in the rumor mill.

Have your advisor talk to someone high up in ROTC, either to see if they can help obtaining the truth or at least squash the rumor.

[cuteASAbug]

If you want to be discreet (math is discrete) about this, then why not ask him for discharge papers or any other military-related form and say that you need it for the fraternity's records for any kind of report?

[Army Wife'79]

HUH??? You don't "take" ROTC and then become enlisted. First of all, you sign an actual legal commitment paper when you join ROTC (B/C they are paying for your college and you owe time in service after graduation). So, if he graduates thru ROTC he will be commissioned as a 2nd lieutenant, not an enlisted man. I'm still confused, is he currently in the ROTC program at your college?

[alum]

He MAY have done some prior service. It IS true that some of the fresh-out-of-high-school cadets at the federal service academies AND the ROTC programs look askance at the prior enlisted men. My H was a professor at one of the federal service academies and was a commander as a company and field grade officer. While he respected the fact that these prior-service cadets moved up out of the enlisted ranksand obviously excelled militarily, many of them couldn't handle the academic rigors of the academies. I can't speak for ROTC but it probably would vary upon the academics of the specific major and of course college/university.

[adpiucf]

Would you ask any other pledge to furnish proof of prior employment?

Is he a good pledge? Does he get along with everyone? If he'd make a good brother, don't worry about it. Call him up to a standards meeting, tell him what was said and give him a chance to explain.

I'm not defending someone who lies, or discounting that someone who lies about something may lie about something else-- something that could affect the reputation or integrity of the chapter. But if your whole reason for pledging this guy was so you could say "We have a war vet in our chapter," that's weak. I'm as much for recruiting the best members, and you want certain bragging rights, but I would hope there was more to this guy than just his work record that compelled you to bid him.

I've no doubt your other members have embellished their accomplishments or lied about things before-- would this make-or-break their membership?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

I've no doubt your other members have embellished their accomplishments or lied about things before-- would this make-or-break their membership?

Umm, wow, no, you are really on the wrong path here. There's a difference between saying "I was dating 3 girls at a time!" (when 2 of them were imaginary) and lying about ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY SERVICE. That's a big big BIG deal. That's kind of like saying your parents are dead when they're not.

And I don't think that scoobis said at all that they ONLY bid him because he was a vet - rather that it was one of the many things they liked about him. But if he's been trading on this as a way to get to know people and it's not real, it's certainly not the fraternity that should be chastised.

Someone who would lie about something this big, I wouldn't trust any further than I could throw him, and I certainly wouldn't want him in my Greek organization.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

Would you ask any other pledge to furnish proof of prior employment?

Is he a good pledge? Does he get along with everyone? If he'd make a good brother, don't worry about it. Call him up to a standards meeting, tell him what was said and give him a chance to explain.

I'm not defending someone who lies, or discounting that someone who lies about something may lie about something else-- something that could affect the reputation or integrity of the chapter. But if your whole reason for pledging this guy was so you could say "We have a war vet in our chapter," that's weak. I'm as much for recruiting the best members, and you want certain bragging rights, but I would hope there was more to this guy than just his work record that compelled you to bid him.

I've no doubt your other members have embellished their accomplishments or lied about things before-- would this make-or-break their membership?

What does it matter if he's a good pledge? If he lied, then HE LIED.

And just confronting him... pathological liars will keep lying. Do you really think he'd just come out and be like "yeah I lied about my duty". Screw that.

[bellwisdom]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Umm, wow, no, you are really on the wrong path here. There's a difference between saying "I was dating 3 girls at a time!" (when 2 of them were imaginary) and lying about ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY SERVICE. That's a big big BIG deal. That's kind of like saying your parents are dead when they're not.

And I don't think that scoobis said at all that they ONLY bid him because he was a vet - rather that it was one of the many things they liked about him. But if he's been trading on this as a way to get to know people and it's not real, it's certainly not the fraternity that should be chastised.

Someone who would lie about something this big, I wouldn't trust any further than I could throw him, and I certainly wouldn't want him in my Greek organization.

33girl, I was going to say all of that but you beat me to it. Also if he lies about being in the military then he would lie about anything. Would you really have trust for someone like that? I couldn't. There would be no trust. He can't be no Brother if he lacks trust from the Brotherhood for being a liar, especially a lie like that. How could you trust him with your Fraternity secrets? But to the person who posted this, I would sit down with the guy and tell him what you heard. Do some investigating. I know that at my school you can actually go to greek affairs to find out if a pledge or any incoming students interested in greek life were in the military. If he was not, then he has got to go.

[als463]

Actually, this guy does not have to be a college "graduate" to become an officer. In fact, you only need 90 credits to become an officer but, before you try to become a Captain-you must have your Bachelor's by then.

He may have also done the OCS program (Officer Candidate School). You can be in the military like the Guard and go to school while one-weekend-a-month going to your OCS station. There is an accelerated program and a traditional program (which I think trad. takes 2-3 years, whereas the acc. program is pretty quick).

I also joined the military when I was 17 (with permission of my parents-signing). I went to basic between training between the end of my junior year and the beginning of my senior year in high school and later went to AIT the summer after I graduated high school. I was in college for a semester (in 2002) before I was called up to serve in Iraq. When deployments first started (when I went) in 2003, they didn't always last a full year. In fact, I was deployed for a total of 9 months. I served 2 in the states training up to go with my unit, 1 month in Kuwait and 6 months in Iraq. I later returned to school in 2004 (since by the time I returned, in October 2003 the semester was already in session). I still remembered everyone-and they remembered me. So, it is quite possible for your brother to have had an experience like mine.

I even joined the ROTC program but, still did drills with my unit one state over (4-hour trip one way) since I had gone overseas with them-they put me in a special MI program. Between receiving my Associate's, 2-Bachelor's Degrees and a minor, along with all my other involvement in school (not to mention my sorority) and my military service during that time--I chose not to stick with ROTC. I liked the program but, I was unsure what I wanted to do with myself after graduation. Maybe your brother is in the same boat. So, yes it is possible he did serve and did do ROTC but, it became too much for him (especially-if he is like me and pays his own way without the financial help of his family).

Give him the benefit of the doubt but, def. talk to him. No one deserves to be lied to whether it's about dating a million and one girls or being in the military because it's about respect. You should respect your friends and your brothers / sisters.....

[fantASTic]

Is it possible that the ROTC kids just don't know what they're talking about? They could be shit talking for a variety of reasons, including jealousy or spite. I would look into it, as you are, but not disbelieve him until you have proof.