why join? (sure already asked)

[UGAalum94]

Macallan25,

This discussion just seems goofy since you were the guy who brought it up. If you want him to know that it might matter to certain chapters that he's Asian, it doesn't seem to me to make much sense for you to turn around and say that it's wrong to assume that groups discriminate on the basis of ethnicity.

Either they do or they don't. Either it will or it won't.

But you can't really say in advance of rush: many chapters will specifically consider your being Asian, but do not assume because they are all white that they discriminate on this basis.

[hockeydude1234]

i went to tke rush at my old school and they were nice so iguess ill just check em out at my new schoool since iheard their the biggest or something and gegt more info there thanks.

[dgdramadawg]

I don't think it is contradictory to say that just because a chapter is all-white they are not necessarily racist when also saying that there are plenty of groups where it would matter.

Example: UGA has what, 23 IFC fraternities? A lot of them are all-white. Does that mean they are all racist? Of course not. Does that mean that a non-white PNM could have a chance with some of the more deeply rooted "South-will-rise-again" chapters? No. The point is that a non-white PNM would probably not be interested in a chapter that would discriminate against him because of his race.

To the OP: It is totally possible to join an IFC fraternity if you are Asian. Also totally possible to join a fraternity that was founded with Christian beliefs if you are not Christian (this is what I assume you mean by "the bible thing"). However, depending on your campus you may find that your options are more limited.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Example: UGA has what, 23 IFC fraternities? A lot of them are all-white. Does that mean they are all racist? Of course not. Does that mean that a non-white PNM could have a chance with some of the more deeply rooted "South-will-rise-again" chapters? No. The point is that a non-white PNM would probably not be interested in a chapter that would discriminate against him because of his race.

Wait... what?

It seems like you're saying it's on the PNM of color to go where they feel comfortable, but it's not the fault of the all-white (discriminatory and non-discriminatory) chapters.

Help me out, here.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Sugar08

Wait... what?

It seems like you're saying it's on the PNM of color to go where they feel comfortable, but it's not the fault of the all-white (discriminatory and non-discriminatory) chapters.

Help me out, here.

Absolutely not. Here's what I said again: "The point is that a non-white PNM would probably not be interested in a chapter that would discriminate against him because of his race."

It's disgusting to me that a fraternity or sorority or any group for that matter would not be able to look past someone's color. What I am saying is that a non-white PNM would probably not be interested in a fraternity that would not be interested in him because of color. For instance, if ABC is known for being racist, he wouldn't want to join them anyway and wouldn't care that they didn't want him. It doesn't mean it's okay for a fraternity to operate that way; it just means that the PNM's not going to want to join there anyway.

[UGAalum94]

DGdramadawg,

I think some chapters are all white because very few people who are anything other than white come through formal rush; the chapters make quota, stay over total and never do COB or COR (which probably covers about ten or twelve of the 18 sororities at UGA which actually are fairly diverse in every other respect other than African-American members).

Other sororities might do COB or COR or if they're fraternities do informal rush but don't end up
with much diversity in the group of people who attend their events and want to join.

It's not that I think that having all-white membership necessarily means the group discriminated against again non-whites. Non-whites may never have been interested in joining and put themselves in the running to join.

(No one would fault a NPHC group for being all Black if no one who wasn't Black showed up at the interest meeting. You've got to put yourself in the running.)

However, if you're going to jump in a thread and say, yes it will matter at some chapters that you are Asian, but it's not that those chapters discriminate by race or ethnicity, I'm going to find a that little suspicious. And it seems to me that's what happened here.

And, honestly, I do think that, particularly with fraternities and I'm not sure why it seems that way, there are some chapters that are pretty much all white because they've got a critical mass of racist members who keep anyone who is non-white from every getting a bid.

Macallan25 and I have argued about this before, and I really don't want to get that cranked up again, which is why I was sort of surprised to see him post his comment.

By the way, I think his comment was correct; there are actually chapters that will regard the OP differently as an Asian than if he had all the same credentials but was White. But I'd actually call them on having prejudiced members, and Macallan will let them off the hook.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

However, if you're going to jump in a thread and say, yes it will matter at some chapters that you are Asian, but it's not that those chapters discriminate by race or ethnicity, I'm going to find a that little suspicious. And it seems to me that's what happened here.

What I've been trying to say is that some chapters discriminate, and to those chapters it will matter. To the ones who don't discriminate, it won't. I thought that was what Macallan was saying, but maybe I misread him?

And I totally agree with what you're saying about how the racist chapters stay racist. It's disgusting, isn't it?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

What I've been trying to say is that some chapters discriminate, and to those chapters it will matter. To the ones who don't discriminate, it won't. I thought that was what Macallan was saying, but maybe I misread him?

And I totally agree with what you're saying about how the racist chapters stay racist. It's disgusting, isn't it?

No, that is what I was trying to say.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by macallan25

No, that is what I was trying to say.

Fabulous. Now I think we all understand each other.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

DGdramadawg,

I think some chapters are all white because very few people who are anything other than white come through formal rush; the chapters make quota, stay over total and never do COB or COR (which probably covers about ten or twelve of the 18 sororities at UGA which actually are fairly diverse in every other respect other than African-American members).

Other sororities might do COB or COR or if they're fraternities do informal rush but don't end up
with much diversity in the group of people who attend their events and want to join.

It's not that I think that having all-white membership necessarily means the group discriminated against again non-whites. Non-whites may never have been interested in joining and put themselves in the running to join.

(No one would fault a NPHC group for being all Black if no one who wasn't Black showed up at the interest meeting. You've got to put yourself in the running.)

However, if you're going to jump in a thread and say, yes it will matter at some chapters that you are Asian, but it's not that those chapters discriminate by race or ethnicity, I'm going to find a that little suspicious. And it seems to me that's what happened here.

And, honestly, I do think that, particularly with fraternities and I'm not sure why it seems that way, there are some chapters that are pretty much all white because they've got a critical mass of racist members who keep anyone who is non-white from every getting a bid.

Macallan25 and I have argued about this before, and I really don't want to get that cranked up again, which is why I was sort of surprised to see him post his comment.

By the way, I think his comment was correct; there are actually chapters that will regard the OP differently as an Asian than if he had all the same credentials but was White. But I'd actually call them on having prejudiced members, and Macallan will let them off the hook.

This is what I thought you were trying to say........that all-white chapters should be labeled as discriminatory.........which is not fair in the least.

Other than that, I don't know why my comments would surprise you. It is a fact that there are many chapters whose membership is reserved for a very specific demographic. If you don't fit it, chances are you aren't getting a bid.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

macallan25,

Would you have them answer, "oh, you're Asian; forget it" ?

Yeah, some chapters do discriminate, contrary to the non-discrimination clause of their national organizations, but I suspect that they're covered by Susan's "click with" comment.

Non-whites aren't likely to click with racist chapters, right?

I'm quoting myself so you can see what was actually there. "Some chapters" is the language used. I think you agree.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

It depends on the campus, though. At some universities diversity is key, and non-white PNMs going through recruitment with mostly white fraternities or sororities would have a VERY good chance of being chosen. And yes, at some, that would keep them from getting a bid. I am betting that there are chapters at those two extremes and many in the middle at every campus and agree that a non-white PNM would not likely be interested in rushing a chapter that would be discriminatory. It is no different from a girl with purple hair and 18 peircings not feeling comfortable at BarbieSorority which outlaws piercings and unatural hair colors. It does not mean it is right, but it is reality. Just like in the real world, there will always be groups who discriminate based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

It is also true that sometimes very few non-white PNMs participate in NPC or IFC recruitment at some schools. At mine this is true. Our chapters are not likely to be discriminatory because of the campus atmosphere, but almost every single PNM is white.

[BlueNYC2]

I didnt join to make friends. i had plenty b4 i joined. i joined cuz i wanted to be part of an organization making a difference in the community, and to be around a bunch of educated brothers who had the same goals in mind. i dont even really party with my Frat brothers or sorors like that. i still party wit my pplz from hs & college waaaaaaaaaaaaay more. and i guess also to network with successful brothers.

[yangstar]

How about we clear this up real quickly. I'm Asian. I'm a part of SigEp, the largest fraternity in America as far as undergrads go, and yes it is an IFC fraternity. Is that a problem? Not at all, there are quite a few Asians in my chapter, and in the other IFC fraternities on campus. Then again UCSD is 50% Asian so go figure. Are the Asian fraternities worth looking into as well? Hell yea, those are some really cool brothers as well.

As for the rush process, it is the same as any other place where you're going to be interviewed.
Is it true that America, the greatest country in the world is comprised and was built upon its diversity? Yes.
Did America endure a period of slavery and extreme bigotry? Yes.
Is America still racist today? Sadly yes.

That's how it goes. I wish I could say that America is prejudice free, but of course it isn't.

So back to the OP's question of being Asian affecting his rush process, or swearing upon the Bible. It MIGHT affect you, but in reality it really shouldn't. You should join the fraternity that you feel the most welcomed and most comfortable in. Then you'll be with the brothers that truly respect you the most. Best of luck to ya.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by BlueNYC2

I didnt join to make friends. i had plenty b4 i joined. i joined cuz i wanted to be part of an organization making a difference in the community, and to be around a bunch of educated brothers who had the same goals in mind. i dont even really party with my Frat brothers or sorors like that. i still party wit my pplz from hs & college waaaaaaaaaaaaay more. and i guess also to network with successful brothers.

That's cute.