why join? (sure already asked)

[UGAalum94]

macallan25,

Would you have them answer, "oh, you're Asian; forget it" ?

Yeah, some chapters do discriminate, contrary to the non-discrimination clause of their national organizations, but I suspect that they're covered by Susan's "click with" comment.

Non-whites aren't likely to click with racist chapters, right?

[macallan25]

No, nor did I say anything like that, I was just being honest.

Furthermore, I think it is mighty unfair for you to label chapters as discriminatory, and I think you would make quite a few people extremely upset if this is what you believe goes down in many of our selection processes. Just because you have an all white chapter, in no way, means that you routinely discriminate during the rush process.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Just because you have an all white chapter, in no way, means that you routinely discriminate during the rush process.

Doesn't that somewhat contradict with what you said here:

There are plenty of chapters at many schools where, absolutely, it would matter if you were Asian, or any non-white race.

Anyhow, you were looking at the comments about being Asian not mattering from an individual chapter perspective - I was making the comment from the system as a whole perspective. Being Asian would not make a difference for him approaching the rush process - are there some individual chapters which might discriminate against him? Sure. (unfortunately) But would those really be the chapters he felt that he fit in at and wanted to join anyhow? Probably not.

[UGAalum94]

Macallan25,

This discussion just seems goofy since you were the guy who brought it up. If you want him to know that it might matter to certain chapters that he's Asian, it doesn't seem to me to make much sense for you to turn around and say that it's wrong to assume that groups discriminate on the basis of ethnicity.

Either they do or they don't. Either it will or it won't.

But you can't really say in advance of rush: many chapters will specifically consider your being Asian, but do not assume because they are all white that they discriminate on this basis.

[hockeydude1234]

i went to tke rush at my old school and they were nice so iguess ill just check em out at my new schoool since iheard their the biggest or something and gegt more info there thanks.

[dgdramadawg]

I don't think it is contradictory to say that just because a chapter is all-white they are not necessarily racist when also saying that there are plenty of groups where it would matter.

Example: UGA has what, 23 IFC fraternities? A lot of them are all-white. Does that mean they are all racist? Of course not. Does that mean that a non-white PNM could have a chance with some of the more deeply rooted "South-will-rise-again" chapters? No. The point is that a non-white PNM would probably not be interested in a chapter that would discriminate against him because of his race.

To the OP: It is totally possible to join an IFC fraternity if you are Asian. Also totally possible to join a fraternity that was founded with Christian beliefs if you are not Christian (this is what I assume you mean by "the bible thing"). However, depending on your campus you may find that your options are more limited.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Example: UGA has what, 23 IFC fraternities? A lot of them are all-white. Does that mean they are all racist? Of course not. Does that mean that a non-white PNM could have a chance with some of the more deeply rooted "South-will-rise-again" chapters? No. The point is that a non-white PNM would probably not be interested in a chapter that would discriminate against him because of his race.

Wait... what?

It seems like you're saying it's on the PNM of color to go where they feel comfortable, but it's not the fault of the all-white (discriminatory and non-discriminatory) chapters.

Help me out, here.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Sugar08

Wait... what?

It seems like you're saying it's on the PNM of color to go where they feel comfortable, but it's not the fault of the all-white (discriminatory and non-discriminatory) chapters.

Help me out, here.

Absolutely not. Here's what I said again: "The point is that a non-white PNM would probably not be interested in a chapter that would discriminate against him because of his race."

It's disgusting to me that a fraternity or sorority or any group for that matter would not be able to look past someone's color. What I am saying is that a non-white PNM would probably not be interested in a fraternity that would not be interested in him because of color. For instance, if ABC is known for being racist, he wouldn't want to join them anyway and wouldn't care that they didn't want him. It doesn't mean it's okay for a fraternity to operate that way; it just means that the PNM's not going to want to join there anyway.

[UGAalum94]

DGdramadawg,

I think some chapters are all white because very few people who are anything other than white come through formal rush; the chapters make quota, stay over total and never do COB or COR (which probably covers about ten or twelve of the 18 sororities at UGA which actually are fairly diverse in every other respect other than African-American members).

Other sororities might do COB or COR or if they're fraternities do informal rush but don't end up
with much diversity in the group of people who attend their events and want to join.

It's not that I think that having all-white membership necessarily means the group discriminated against again non-whites. Non-whites may never have been interested in joining and put themselves in the running to join.

(No one would fault a NPHC group for being all Black if no one who wasn't Black showed up at the interest meeting. You've got to put yourself in the running.)

However, if you're going to jump in a thread and say, yes it will matter at some chapters that you are Asian, but it's not that those chapters discriminate by race or ethnicity, I'm going to find a that little suspicious. And it seems to me that's what happened here.

And, honestly, I do think that, particularly with fraternities and I'm not sure why it seems that way, there are some chapters that are pretty much all white because they've got a critical mass of racist members who keep anyone who is non-white from every getting a bid.

Macallan25 and I have argued about this before, and I really don't want to get that cranked up again, which is why I was sort of surprised to see him post his comment.

By the way, I think his comment was correct; there are actually chapters that will regard the OP differently as an Asian than if he had all the same credentials but was White. But I'd actually call them on having prejudiced members, and Macallan will let them off the hook.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

macallan25,

Would you have them answer, "oh, you're Asian; forget it" ?

Yeah, some chapters do discriminate, contrary to the non-discrimination clause of their national organizations, but I suspect that they're covered by Susan's "click with" comment.

Non-whites aren't likely to click with racist chapters, right?

I'm quoting myself so you can see what was actually there. "Some chapters" is the language used. I think you agree.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

It depends on the campus, though. At some universities diversity is key, and non-white PNMs going through recruitment with mostly white fraternities or sororities would have a VERY good chance of being chosen. And yes, at some, that would keep them from getting a bid. I am betting that there are chapters at those two extremes and many in the middle at every campus and agree that a non-white PNM would not likely be interested in rushing a chapter that would be discriminatory. It is no different from a girl with purple hair and 18 peircings not feeling comfortable at BarbieSorority which outlaws piercings and unatural hair colors. It does not mean it is right, but it is reality. Just like in the real world, there will always be groups who discriminate based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

It is also true that sometimes very few non-white PNMs participate in NPC or IFC recruitment at some schools. At mine this is true. Our chapters are not likely to be discriminatory because of the campus atmosphere, but almost every single PNM is white.