The Term African American

[RoyalEmpress33]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Okay, I won't be identified by my shade of "blackness." I'm not going to be called a "Yellow American." LOL.

As far as I'm concerned, black is black. That isn't about complexion but about African diasporic cultures and experiences.

So I really think it's silly when people refute "Black American" because they aren't of a darker complexion.

DSTCHAOS, I understand what you are saying. It does seem rather awkward but who cares? LOL! I mean, I am brown. And I am an American, that's my choice to use those terms. Some people are more literal or technical than others. Someone else may feel differently and that's fine, call yourself whatever you want. If I had the luxury and funds to find out my true African "tribe" or "ethnicity" or whatever you want to call it, then I'd eliminate all these terms and claim that proudly. I long for the day...

If Black is Black, why are people sweating something as simple as what one wants to name themselves? Dang, some people act like I tried to kill somebody lol. Just voicing an opinion, ya digg?

I have a question though. I know this is suppose to be directed to people who are of African descent, but let's use a hypothetical situation. If a biracial or multiracial person (regardless of racial make-up) decided to claim one race over the other, could we still use the argument that they are not proud of where they came from because they don't claim this, that or the other? Would we even be sitting here discussing this? I'm just curious to know people's feelings on this particular matter. Or is it because they're of more than one racial background, they have that option? What makes it ok for them to claim whatever the hell they want, but because I'm predominately one race, as soon as I diverge and do something as trivial as claim one term over the other, people have an issue with it?

I think I'm going to write a paper on this...

[RoyalEmpress33]

No. I'm not trying to prove a point. No. I'm not trying to vindicate myself. Its just my preference. Not all personal opinions are the same. End of story.

**Looking for new view points**

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by RoyalEmpress33

I have a question though. I know this is suppose to be directed to people who are of African descent, but let's use a hypothetical situation. If a biracial or multiracial person (regardless of racial make-up) decided to claim one race over the other, could we still use the argument that they are not proud of where they came from because they don't claim this, that or the other? Would we even be sitting here discussing this? I'm just curious to know people's feelings on this particular matter. Or is it because they're of more than one racial background, they have that option? What makes it ok for them to claim whatever the hell they want, but because I'm predominately one race, as soon as I diverge and do something as trivial as claim one term over the other, people have an issue with it?

My guess is that many peoples reaction to the "hypothetical" situation that you mentioned would depend (in part) on why the person decided not to claim their heritage. And also what you mean by claim. Case in point, my Grandfather and Great Grandparents are Cape Verdean-American/Cape Verdean respectively, however my parents didn't grow up in that culture per say, as they were predominantly raised by their African-American parents. I have Cape Verdean ancestry, but I personally don't claim it as my ethnicity. Not because I pick and choose, not because I'm ashamed, but I was not raised in the Cape Verdean culture, and what I do know of it is from an "outsiders" perspective so to say. I don't know what it is like to live/grow up in a Cape Verdean household, or live in a Cape Verdean neighborhood, or even speak Cape Verdean Creole, have part of your family still on the island(s), etc. I've educated myself on my history and will continue to do so. If you ask me, I will tell you about my heritage/ethnicity (the many parts of it), but I "claim" African-American because it is what I know.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I think we are too stuck on terms.

I agree

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by RoyalEmpress33

DSTCHAOS, I understand what you are saying. It does seem rather awkward but who cares? LOL! I mean, I am brown. And I am an American, that's my choice to use those terms. Some people are more literal or technical than others. Someone else may feel differently and that's fine, call yourself whatever you want. If I had the luxury and funds to find out my true African "tribe" or "ethnicity" or whatever you want to call it, then I'd eliminate all these terms and claim that proudly. I long for the day...

If Black is Black, why are people sweating something as simple as what one wants to name themselves? Dang, some people act like I tried to kill somebody lol. Just voicing an opinion, ya digg?

I have a question though. I know this is suppose to be directed to people who are of African descent, but let's use a hypothetical situation. If a biracial or multiracial person (regardless of racial make-up) decided to claim one race over the other, could we still use the argument that they are not proud of where they came from because they don't claim this, that or the other? Would we even be sitting here discussing this? I'm just curious to know people's feelings on this particular matter. Or is it because they're of more than one racial background, they have that option? What makes it ok for them to claim whatever the hell they want, but because I'm predominately one race, as soon as I diverge and do something as trivial as claim one term over the other, people have an issue with it?

I think I'm going to write a paper on this...

Please write a paper because I don't know what you're talking about.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by RoyalEmpress33

No. I'm not trying to prove a point. No. I'm not trying to vindicate myself. Its just my preference. Not all personal opinions are the same. End of story.

**Looking for new view points**

Huh?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I would say no, but I also recognize that a person in that situation would not be able to be convinced otherwise, if you get what I mean.

Indeed I do.

"I'm a pony!! I'm a pony!! Don't you just feel like a pony?!" Nutty Professor

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I think the only person that can answer that is the one who chooses to use the term.

I guess that's what the person just attempted to do.

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

It definately is. When I wrote that she can call herself what she wants, I was more leaning to if you self identify as brown then "good for you", to each his own. Using the term "brown american" over "black american" over "african american" is rather moot to me, personally. I happen to be all those thing. I tend to use black american/african american 1. because that is what I've been "made" to use, i.e. filling out forms, job applications etc. But I also do believe it speaks to my heritage. Unfortunately, like many Americans of African descent I cannot specifically state that my roots are ghanain or nigerian, or congolese, so I use African-American.

But I do feel like we (the people in the USA) suffer from "hyphenation syndrome". If someone's family imigrated to the USA from Nigeria and had children, and those children had children, etc." when does someone stop being Nigerian(American), and become African-American (kinda a rhetorical question, but it doesn't have to be).

I hear ya.

[metro803]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I think we are too stuck on terms.

that basically summarizes everything..... not just african americans though

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by RoyalEmpress33

DSTCHAOS, I understand what you are saying. It does seem rather awkward but who cares? LOL! I mean, I am brown. And I am an American, that's my choice to use those terms. Some people are more literal or technical than others. Someone else may feel differently and that's fine, call yourself whatever you want. If I had the luxury and funds to find out my true African "tribe" or "ethnicity" or whatever you want to call it, then I'd eliminate all these terms and claim that proudly. I long for the day...

If Black is Black, why are people sweating something as simple as what one wants to name themselves? Dang, some people act like I tried to kill somebody lol. Just voicing an opinion, ya digg?

I have a question though. I know this is suppose to be directed to people who are of African descent, but let's use a hypothetical situation. If a biracial or multiracial person (regardless of racial make-up) decided to claim one race over the other, could we still use the argument that they are not proud of where they came from because they don't claim this, that or the other? Would we even be sitting here discussing this? I'm just curious to know people's feelings on this particular matter. Or is it because they're of more than one racial background, they have that option? What makes it ok for them to claim whatever the hell they want, but because I'm predominately one race, as soon as I diverge and do something as trivial as claim one term over the other, people have an issue with it?

I think I'm going to write a paper on this...

Yes, "Black" ultimately refers to culture in America, and to call oneself "Black" is making a political statement, whether one realizes it or not. All "raced" language in America, which is ensconsed in white supremicist ideology, is political: it tells us about our self-identity and where one's afilliations lie in how we view the ordering of society, etc. So, for example, Moses, a Jew by parentage and raised in Pharaoh's household, made a choice to identify with his people in their suffering and injustice in his adulthood (in this biblical example). It's why Halle Berry and Alicia Keys, both "biracial" persons, are "Black" and Tiger Woods and Jennifer Beals, other "biracial" persons, are not in their self-designation. And this is why Barack Obama is "Black." (This is not making a value judgment about the persons themselves but just to address this specific issue.)

For this reason racial cartographies are somewhat culture specific, reflecting the concrete sociohistorical and political exigencies of a given society. This is why the country with the largest "black" population outside of Africa, Brazil, has a lower percentage of people who designate themselves as "black" on a racial continuum.It's no accident that this is changing as the current government of Brazil is intentionally addressing the racial/caste/economic disparities of the nation and they are implementing affirmative action-type programs. Now there is some social capital in being "black" and some folks are rediscovering their blackness as it relates to increased opportunities in college admissions,etc.

[Ch2tf]

hijack/
Of topic, but I so didn't know Jennifer Beals was bi-racial, but now it makes sense.
hijack/

[AKA_Monet]

Royalempress,

You take these things way too seriously. That's why your feelings are hurt. You could care less about what I say if it didn't mean to much to you.

Because I come from a different generation, just one removed from full segregation, the thought patterns of my own family members being water canonned reminds me of the strides people forced into a color.

The question is about fairness and what someone ELSE wants to name and identify somebody who has been subjugated.

You wanted to be called something that is a color definition. I questioned your intent. And as I and many other on here can see you completely FAIL and LACK a basic comprehension of yourself. And everything you fathom in this world will fail until you FREE YOUR MIND AND LIVE BY YOUR OWN TRUTHS!

Now, I don't give a rat's ass what you call yourself. But there will be plenty of others who will call you out your name. Be mediocre. Lie to youself. It is your life.

But, in front of me, I will call you on it. Grow up and be a woman, independent and stand on your own two feet. And stop being a whiner and a baby because you cannot have your way.

Keep saying dysfunctional stuff around here. Hayle post it in the AKA Ave. But, your comments were weak and I told you how they were.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

At the same time, I wonder about the mental soundness of people who are unrelenting about self-identifying with certain things.

If a person of African descent wants to identify as white, is that okay because that's what THEY want? Sure, it's technically okay because this is all socially constructed. But does calling yourself a "Brown American," for example, prove some kind of point or make the person feel vindicated?

Then I also wonder if the person REALLY identifies with something or just vocalizes it when such topics come up. Being a "brown American" in this thread is different from considering yourself one everyday, putting that down on paperwork, and correcting people/informing people that you are a "brown American."

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

At the same time, I wonder about the mental soundness of people who are unrelenting about self-identifying with certain things.

If a person of African descent wants to identify as white, is that okay because that's what THEY want? Sure, it's technically okay because this is all socially constructed. But does calling yourself a "Brown American," for example, prove some kind of point or make the person feel vindicated?

Then I also wonder if the person REALLY identifies with something or just vocalizes it when such topics come up. Being a "brown American" in this thread is different from considering yourself one everyday, putting that down on paperwork, and correcting people/informing people that you are a "brown American."

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

At the same time, I wonder about the mental soundness of people who are unrelenting about self-identifying with certain things.

If a person of African descent wants to identify as white, is that okay because that's what THEY want? Sure, it's technically okay because this is all socially constructed. But does calling yourself a "Brown American," for example, prove some kind of point or make the person feel vindicated?

Then I also wonder if the person REALLY identifies with something or just vocalizes it when such topics come up. Being a "brown American" in this thread is different from considering yourself one everyday, putting that down on paperwork, and correcting people/informing people that you are a "brown American."

I just like these comments...

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by metro803

that basically summarizes everything..... not just african americans though

I agree completely. Sometimes we need to look beyond the label and at the person behind it.

As for being politically correct, last year my parents went on a tour of Australia, part of the tour included going to an Aborigine Cultural Center near Alice Springs. One of the other Americans on the tour always referred to the Aboriginal people as "African-American-Austrailians".

[RoyalEmpress33]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Royalempress,

You take these things way too seriously. That's why your feelings are hurt. You could care less about what I say if it didn't mean to much to you.

Because I come from a different generation, just one removed from full segregation, the thought patterns of my own family members being water canonned reminds me of the strides people forced into a color.

The question is about fairness and what someone ELSE wants to name and identify somebody who has been subjugated.

You wanted to be called something that is a color definition. I questioned your intent. And as I and many other on here can see you completely FAIL and LACK a basic comprehension of yourself. And everything you fathom in this world will fail until you FREE YOUR MIND AND LIVE BY YOUR OWN TRUTHS!

Now, I don't give a rat's ass what you call yourself. But there will be plenty of others who will call you out your name. Be mediocre. Lie to youself. It is your life.

But, in front of me, I will call you on it. Grow up and be a woman, independent and stand on your own two feet. And stop being a whiner and a baby because you cannot have your way.

Keep saying dysfunctional stuff around here. Hayle post it in the AKA Ave. But, your comments were weak and I told you how they were.

*Sighs* I see we think completely differently. If my way of thinking is some how "dysfunctional" to you, that's your opinion. No feelings of mine are hurt actually. If that's what you believe however, that's fine. No one is whining because frankly, I have nothing to complain about. If however I feel as though someone is trying to insinuate something that's not true, as I felt you were, I'm going to speak my piece as well. I am not lying to myself about anything either. Again, your statements are off point. I simply responded to what you first typed about my own personal outlook,which were off base like I said, and asked you to back up your claims, and thus far, you haven't. Therefore, your own statements (not inquires) are "weak" and I told you how they were. But anyway, all of you, have a great weekend!

[RoyalEmpress33]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Royalempress,

You take these things way too seriously. That's why your feelings are hurt. You could care less about what I say if it didn't mean to much to you.

Because I come from a different generation, just one removed from full segregation, the thought patterns of my own family members being water canonned reminds me of the strides people forced into a color.

The question is about fairness and what someone ELSE wants to name and identify somebody who has been subjugated.

You wanted to be called something that is a color definition. I questioned your intent. And as I and many other on here can see you completely FAIL and LACK a basic comprehension of yourself. And everything you fathom in this world will fail until you FREE YOUR MIND AND LIVE BY YOUR OWN TRUTHS!

Now, I don't give a rat's ass what you call yourself. But there will be plenty of others who will call you out your name. Be mediocre. Lie to youself. It is your life.

But, in front of me, I will call you on it. Grow up and be a woman, independent and stand on your own two feet. And stop being a whiner and a baby because you cannot have your way.

Keep saying dysfunctional stuff around here. Hayle post it in the AKA Ave. But, your comments were weak and I told you how they were.

Ok, I understand now, we are from different generations. I didn't know that. I was in a crappy mood yesterday and probably shouldn't have responded in that manner. But I will say this though. If my way of thinking is some how awkward to you, as they are to many who can't fathom or agree with my way of thinking, that's fine. No feelings of mine are hurt actually but I felt misunderstood. No one is whining because frankly, I have nothing to complain about. If however I feel as though someone is trying to insinuate something that's not true, as I felt you were, I'm going to speak my piece as well. I am not lying to myself about anything. How could I? No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't do it because I know where I came from. I simply responded to what you first typed about my own personal outlook, and asked you to back up your claims, and thus far, you haven't. Therefore, your own statements (not inquires) are "weak" and I told you how they were. But anyway, all of you, have a great weekend!