Hip Hop: Poison or Art?

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

Go 'head girl... you went 1987/1988 on me with that one! LOL

Let's see...... I'm going to go 1985 on you: I'm rocking my braids, my Door-Knocker earrings and gold rope chains.... Lee Jeans with the Name Belt buckle that says, "Lady LaShawn".... hoody sweater, Gucci bag...and B-girl stance on you.... I'm about ready to pop-lock, then break into a windmill.......

I forgot...... I'm rocking my blue suede pumas, with my toothbrush in my back pocket, so I can stop,brush the suede, and keep 'em "FRESH".

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

I forgot...... I'm rocking my blue suede pumas, with my toothbrush in my back pocket, so I can stop,brush the suede, and keep 'em "FRESH".

I'm rockin my blue and black suede Pumas. Pumas are my favorite shoe.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

Go 'head girl... you went 1987/1988 on me with that one! LOL

Let's see...... I'm going to go 1985 on you: I'm rocking my braids, my Door-Knocker earrings and gold rope chains.... Lee Jeans with the Name Belt buckle that says, "Lady LaShawn".... hoody sweater, Gucci bag...and B-girl stance on you.... I'm about ready to pop-lock, then break into a windmill.......

Don't trip...I love ol school hip hop fashion.

You won't catch me rocking ol school hair styles or jewelry, though.

If I can find my brothers' African medallions boxed up at the crib, I'm gonna start rockin those again. That's sure to confuse some people.

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Don't trip...I love ol school hip hop fashion.

You won't catch me rocking ol school hair styles or jewelry, though.

If I can find my brothers' African medallions boxed up at the crib, I'm gonna start rockin those again. That's sure to confuse some people.

That's why I gave the year brackets.... in NY, we didn't start rocking the black medallions until the end of 86 - 89.... that's when Tribe Called Quest, The Jungle Brothers, De La Soul (and the rest of the Native Tongue), ruled our airwaves along with Public Enemy....they made hip hop more self-aware.

[MzDoctaKay]

Dag..... all this talk is making me nostalgic. We had FUN back then. These kids don't know what fun is. But then again....I'm sure our elders will tell us the same thing....

[Little32]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

If so, who would be responsible? The rapper? Or the industry machine?

I think that there is culpability on both sides. Of course, industry is primarily concerned with what will sell; it will appeal to the lowest common denominator. On the other hand, there have to be artists that embody or are willing to espouse ideas that are palatable to the LCD--and willing to be exploited--for this type of situation to persist. And as other have said, there is always going to be someone that will sacrifice their artistic integrity and vision for money. So industry and artists are responsible for the stagnation that we see in mainstream rap--I won't call it hip hop.

There are artists out there that continue to create real, thought-provoking music with lyrics and beats that will stand the test of time, as opposed to those songs that are here today, gone tomorrow (To that list, I would add someone like Del). But as with other genres of art, it is rare that those people are widely appreciated in their time.

I guess the other question is how is "art" being defined?

[dzdst796]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

I was a little shaky when you said J.Lo....but when you mentioned LL....and went all the way back to Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, I had to give you the All Time Platinum Pass.....

*Handing the Pass to the Soror on my left*

Whew. Thought I was going to have to break out with the wop or the running man.

[dzdst796]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

That's why I gave the year brackets.... in NY, we didn't start rocking the black medallions until the end of 86 - 89.... that's when Tribe Called Quest, The Jungle Brothers, De La Soul (and the rest of the Native Tongue), ruled our airwaves along with Public Enemy....they made hip hop more self-aware.

Hold up don't forget the ponytail on the side of your head with the baby hair all slicked down to your face. Or the jordache jeans with the yellow or light blue stitching with the shirt to match the stitching. And don't forget the bubblegum reeboks and the two pairs of thick socks that were color coordinated to your outfit.

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by dzdst796

Hold up don't forget the ponytail on the side of your head with the baby hair all slicked down to your face. Or the jordache jeans with the yellow or light blue stitching with the shirt to match the stitching. And don't forget the bubblegum reeboks and the two pairs of thick socks that were color coordinated to your outfit.

Ok..hold up. You're going back to the early 80s again, except we didn't do the thick socks. LOL

You are too funny! @ baby hair slicked down

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by Little32

There are artists out there that continue to create real, thought-provoking music with lyrics and beats that will stand the test of time, as opposed to those songs that are here today, gone tomorrow (To that list, I would add someone like Del). But as with other genres of art, it is rare that those people are widely appreciated in their time. I guess the other question is how is "art" being defined?

You're right to make the distinction between rap and hip hop....I'd describe rap as the audio portion (lyrics...djing...music) of the entire hip hop culture. Although many of us use the two terms interchangably.

As for the definition of art, I'd use Webster's definition: "...the conscious use of skill and creative imagination; or an aesthetic object produced as an artistic effort".

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by dzdst796

Whew. Thought I was going to have to break out with the wop or the running man.

Mercy girl....NOT the wop! It took us how many years to stop doing that dance? LOL

*doesn't want to admit that every once in a while she goes off into the wop, if she's not careful*

[Krisco]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I hear ya girl!!!

Folks also forget that hip hop's origins weren't as socially progressive and intense as people try to make it. The Sugar Hill Gang? Not even rappers and their rhymes were fluff. Hip hop was a call and response party thing--DJs were hip hop and then "emcees" picked up microphones and moved the crowd. All of this happened before Afrika Bambata called it "hip hop" and Kurtis Blow rhymed about the ghetto.

Mysogyny and negative images in hip hop began in the 80s. There weren't the same type of video girls and raunchy lyrics but when you allow a little bit, a lot is soon to follow. I still remember how Shaba Ranks' "Trailer Load of Girls'" video with KRS-One was cool back in the 90's. That was all the precursor for what we are seeing now.

Thank You! The mysoginistic and negative images are definitely not just recent, they are just more widely accepted and commonly seen. And in no way were most of the lyrics socially uplifiting, please! I listened to rap tough in the 80's and the 90's it was headed downhill long ago. Still like to bump some of it though...

[7thSonofOsiris]

Originally Posted by Little32

I think that there is culpability on both sides. Of course, industry is primarily concerned with what will sell; it will appeal to the lowest common denominator. On the other hand, there have to be artists that embody or are willing to espouse ideas that are palatable to the LCD--and willing to be exploited--for this type of situation to persist. And as other have said, there is always going to be someone that will sacrifice their artistic integrity and vision for money. So industry and artists are responsible for the stagnation that we see in mainstream rap--I won't call it hip hop.

There are artists out there that continue to create real, thought-provoking music with lyrics and beats that will stand the test of time, as opposed to those songs that are here today, gone tomorrow (To that list, I would add someone like Del). But as with other genres of art, it is rare that those people are widely appreciated in their time.

I guess the other question is how is "art" being defined?

Hip-hop is the artistic side of the genre for sure. Poetry is the foundational keystone of hip-hop, and not everbody that "raps" is a Poet. Rap is to me, the poison filled expression of today's game. To me it is a symbol without substance. It's all about hooks and beats. There is no true storytelling power to "rap". I dig the cats that still bring the Poetic flow to the game. Cats like Common, Mos Def, Eminem, Jay Z and Nas. I miss the likes of Rakim, Tupac and Public Enemy. Those cats knew how to mesh it all together and when they did, they created art. Hip-hop is all about the happenstance expression, and it may appear to some that, we as a people, the founding culture of hip-hop, have either forgotten or have lost the thing that we used to bring the Poetry about....life. Everything's not about women with big asses, Bentleys, and jewels, but rather, it's supposed to be about our current state of existence, our pain, and our future hopes. We have sambos who sell a million CDs, and that to them is, the mark of their success, or, the mark of their progress

[luv4denzel]

A few months ago, my sister and I were discussing this very subject. We talked about the good ole days y'all mentioned here, when hip hop was fun, and nobody was dying over it, and women were being respected. To me, it's not fun anymore. I miss the Heavy D, Dana Dane, UTFO, fun music that hip hop used to bring. Now it's gotten away from that. A lot of it is disrespectful to women and the videos are borderline porn. There are some who remain true to the quality and integrity of those who came before. But I can't take another shake ya a**, I got money and you don't, look at me make a fool of myself song in the name of hip-hop. Don't get me wrong, I know that everything must change. But all change isn't good. I remember when I was coming up, I could listen to a lot of hip hop music in front of my mother. She even liked some of it. But when a classmate gave me an Eazy-E album for my birthday, I had no idea what I was in for. I remember when Mama came home early and heard me playing my Eazy-E. She said, "Girl! What the hell is that?!" I told her it was a birthday gift and it's a new rapper. She said, "That ain't rap! It's trash! Turn it off and put on some LL Cool J. What happened to the other stuff you listen to?" What could I say? I have much respect to the genuine artists of this genre of music who manage to do the damn thing without compromising the true art of hip-hop. But then there are those bafoonish, so-called entertainers who manage to make a mockery of hip-hop music in its entirety. Bottom line: I miss the good ole days!

[TheEpitome1920]

*apologizing now for not reading every single post*

I saw the CNN special on Rap music and I'll say this:

DuBois said that art is supposed to be propaganda. If we were to apply that to rap music today I would say its poison. There is nothing on the radio today that was created to advance the movement or Black folks.