Entire Duke Lacrosse Team Suspended from Play

[James]

If only three were invovled, why are they ruining the whole teams season? Just to make a point?

Seems wrong somehow.

[kddani]

Originally posted by James
If only three were invovled, why are they ruining the whole teams season? Just to make a point?

Seems wrong somehow.

If I had to guess I think it might be because the rest of the teammates that were there won't talk to the police about what happened. That's one thing I don't get... if you've got nothing to hide, why not fully cooperate? Even the attorney who is representing most of the players won't comment.

When you don't talk, not even through your attorney or to the police, it really looks suspcious. Maybe they have reasons, I don't know, but human nature makes it look bad on them.

[James]

I think you are right about the perception kddani.

On the other hand.

I just think they are doing the right thing. I know police interrogators and the first thing they will tell you(friends) is don't talk to police . . . maybe talk to police with a lawyer present.

I have been told that more people talk themselves into charges than you could possibly believe. The police may have had nothing until they just started talking.

Also, keep in mind that police are allowed to lie in interrogations.

Figure the first thing everyone did was lawyer up. Thats not really not cooperating thats just excercising their rights.

It should be that if you did nothing wrong you should feel safe in just being open and honest. But thats not always true.

For example, your testimnoy could open you up to a conspiracy charge. Or an aiding after the fact charge.

Also you could falsely implicate a friend and not even know it. I think I saw kddani enter the bathroom . . . when you didn't.

Does anyone remember that case well over ten years ago where a woman, a stockbroker i think, was raped and murdered in central park?

A bunch of 15-16 year olds were put in jail because they got confused during the interrogation, the police twisted their words and the police lied to them.

They spen years and jail and were finally released, here is a link:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cassel1221.html

Anyway, I don't think these players should be chastised by taking the advice of both counsel and good sense.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by James

Also, keep in mind that police are allowed to lie in interrogations.

Ok, off topic but does anyone know if this is really true? Is it "legal" for them to lie, or do they just get away with it?

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by James
I think you are right about the perception kddani.

On the other hand.

I just think they are doing the right thing. I know police interrogators and the first thing they will tell you(friends) is don't talk to police . . . maybe talk to police with a lawyer present.

I have been told that more people talk themselves into charges than you could possibly believe. The police may have had nothing until they just started talking.

Also, keep in mind that police are allowed to lie in interrogations.

Figure the first thing everyone did was lawyer up. Thats not really not cooperating thats just excercising their rights.

It should be that if you did nothing wrong you should feel safe in just being open and honest. But thats not always true.

For example, your testimnoy could open you up to a conspiracy charge. Or an aiding after the fact charge.

Also you could falsely implicate a friend and not even know it. I think I saw kddani enter the bathroom . . . when you didn't.

Does anyone remember that case well over ten years ago where a woman, a stockbroker i think, was raped and murdered in central park?

A bunch of 15-16 year olds were put in jail because they got confused during the interrogation, the police twisted their words and the police lied to them.

They spen years and jail and were finally released, here is a link:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cassel1221.html

Anyway, I don't think these players should be chastised by taking the advice of both counsel and good sense.

James, she wasn't murdered. She is still alive. She survived that incredibly violent attack. When she testified during the trial, she couldn't remember the details of the rape because she had head injuries so the DA relied on the police testimony about the interrogation.

I agree that what happened to those boys who are now grown men is terrible. What happened to the jogger is also terrible. Another terrible thing is that they didn't catch the real rapist who went on to rape and murder another woman.

I agree that the accused should not answer any questions and should hire a lawyer.

[XOMichelle]

Well, it will all shake out sooner or later....

It's odd though that whenever we hear that someone was raped, most people first respond by thinking: What if she made it up? We don't think "maybe they got the wrong guy" when people get arrested for robbing a bank or taken in for murder. The evidence needs to be weighed deliberately, but most of the time I'd bet the victim is telling the truth. Evidence may overturn her report of the account so far, but I believe the girl.

However, I feel very sorry for the players involved. You know they were all drunk, and I am sure more than a few of them have no recollection of the evening. I'm sure a lot of them are just going by what their friends say happened and don't know the truth. You'd be more likely to believe your friends than a strange stripper.

Either way, privledged white college men let a situation get out of hand -- it was out of hand even if there was no rape. I hope they figure out that money can't get you out of everything.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by XOMichelle
Well, it will all shake out sooner or later....

It's odd though that whenever we hear that someone was raped, most people first respond by thinking: What if she made it up? We don't think "maybe they got the wrong guy" when people get arrested for robbing a bank or taken in for murder. The evidence needs to be weighed deliberately, but most of the time I'd bet the victim is telling the truth. Evidence may overturn her report of the account so far, but I believe the girl.

However, I feel very sorry for the players involved. You know they were all drunk, and I am sure more than a few of them have no recollection of the evening. I'm sure a lot of them are just going by what their friends say happened and don't know the truth. You'd be more likely to believe your friends than a strange stripper.

Either way, privledged white college men let a situation get out of hand -- it was out of hand even if there was no rape. I hope they figure out that money can't get you out of everything.

You believe the girl but you don't know what happened huh? It's so odd that you consider all accused males to be guilty rapists.

Obviously a poor white girl like you is jaded.

-Rudey

[Phasad1913]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
Ok, off topic but does anyone know if this is really true? Is it "legal" for them to lie, or do they just get away with it?

Its not a question of whether or not the use of lies and/or misrepresentations by the police are legal, its a question of whether the suspects will was overborne in their act of confessing to a crime. Police are pretty much granted broad leighway in their tactics to secure a confession out of a suspect and as long as under all relevant circumstances it is not obvious that a person involuntarily confessed, they can do just about what they want.

I'm not responding to the rest of this topic. I'll just end up pissed off.

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by XOMichelle
Well, it will all shake out sooner or later....

It's odd though that whenever we hear that someone was raped, most people first respond by thinking: What if she made it up?

I'd venture to say that most people have the complete opposite reaction, i.e. "What a monster he is to rape someone." That's regardless of whether guilt or innocence has been proven.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by KSigkid
I'd venture to say that most people have the complete opposite reaction, i.e. "What a monster he is to rape someone." That's regardless of whether guilt or innocence has been proven.

Exactly...just like she did.

"We're trying to prove a negative here that they didn't do it," Sutton said. "That's not supposed to be the way our system works. The state is supposed make a case. If all 46 are exonerated, they've still been branded as racists and rapists."

-Rudey

[dukedg]

Why do people assume these men are all privileged? Because they go to Duke? Because they play lax?

As a Duke alum I am just curious.

[kddani]

Originally posted by dukedg
Why do people assume these men are all privileged? Because they go to Duke? Because they play lax?

As a Duke alum I am just curious.

In general, lacrosse is a sport that's seen more for the privileged. It's expensive to play, b/c of all the gear, and many times is only available at schools that would be considered "privileged". In my area, only the wealthier public and some of the privates offered lacrosse. Actually, I just read an artible about that very subject in relation to this case, but I can't remember where, about how lacrosse is trying to change it's image.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by kddani
In general, lacrosse is a sport that's seen more for the privileged. It's expensive to play, b/c of all the gear, and many times is only available at schools that would be considered "privileged". In my area, only the wealthier public and some of the privates offered lacrosse. Actually, I just read an artible about that very subject in relation to this case, but I can't remember where, about how lacrosse is trying to change it's image.

It's expensive to play? How does the price of LAX gear compare to football equipment? How about hockey gear?

-Rudey

[BobbyTheDon]

Originally posted by kddani
In general, lacrosse is a sport that's seen more for the privileged. It's expensive to play, b/c of all the gear, and many times is only available at schools that would be considered "privileged". In my area, only the wealthier public and some of the privates offered lacrosse. Actually, I just read an artible about that very subject in relation to this case, but I can't remember where, about how lacrosse is trying to change it's image.

This is true. Though football is just as expensive, if not more expensive than lacrosse but is not considered to be played by the more privileged. Just big roid ragers.

[kddani]

Originally posted by Rudey
It's expensive to play? How does the price of LAX gear compare to football equipment? How about hockey gear?

-Rudey

I'm just going by what the article cited as reasons. They compared it to baseball and soccer as being a lot more expensive for the pads, stick, etc. (though, like you, I did think about football).