CU fraternities defy deferred rush rules, go off campus

[lenoxxx]

Some fascinating posts.

#1- When did Lambda Chi Alpha get tossed at Millersville? I wasnt aware that my fraternity got closed there. If you thought I was a Sig Tau member, I am not. However I had several High School friends pledge there and we kept in touch over the years to know what were hot button topics to them at MU, thus I actually ahd a copy of that article where Big Brother Millersville shafted free thought and democratic choice for the Greek Students. If MU actually made the changes you describe, I'd be shocked. My suspiscion (sp?) is that they are just telling you something that they will "try to do in the future" and will never deliver. Shippensburg has been well known for the empty promises to the greeks they have made for many many years, similar to the one you have described. Dznat, I am sure you are a dedicated sister of DZ, and I do not mean to insult you by telling you to not drink the Kool Aid. Be very wary of the "Big Brother" system at place at your school. Look up the copy of the "SNAPPER" I described, it is very troubling to see the democratic process get trampled on by a 30 year old memo at your University.

#2- Shippensburg a Hippie School? Perhaps an amish area prep school would be more appropriate. College students EVERYWHERE have always been about change and questioning authority. From anti war demonstrations to boycotts of campus services when student felt that labor unions were getting a raw deal are part of HIGHER learning. I.E question everything and open an honest debate about issues. I live near Penn State, there are rallies on the main street outside of campus every week for a variety of causes, speakers are brought in ranging from Michael Moore to Ann Coulter to push political and social agendas. While I do not agree with all of these I am glad the students are always pushing the boundaries and working to change things, this is and has been the American way. And as to the example of firing an employee over hiring practices, if the people in question didnt like the employment situtiaon enough they might sue the complany for unfair practices. Or if the company wanted to pursue excluding people (NFL v. Maurice Clarett) can they back it up in court?

Thanks

lenoxxx

[dznat187]

we are in no way giving over control. deferred rush is just fine for my chapter, in fact it has helped us. i dont see the school as telling us what to do or telling us what our founders wanted ( i guarantee you that most if not all of the npc and nic orgs' founders were dedicated to academics and community/university involvement). dz's founders worked very closely with the administration of their school and much of our organization and ritual and stuff was guided by some members of the administration. this is just us but i feel working with the school is going to get us farther than trying to do our own thing without their support. who's parents are going to want their child to be in a group that is constantly at odds against their university. we are all at college first and foremost for an education, allother experiences are meant to suppliment our education. i just don't see the purpose of my group, personally, in fighting and defying the school when they are willing to help us if we work with them. we are doing what we should and we should not be punished for the acts of others. i feel this new system will really benefit the organizations who are living up to their orgs standards. i forgot to mention that in my explanation. they are going to set up the standards for this system based mostly on the nationals standards. Academics and risk management are a concern from the school's perspective and they will have standards for that-mostly to make sure members are safe and not failing out. i know some people don't like to work with 'the man' or go against what they want to do in order to do what they should, but i guess that is a personal decision and that may or may not have anything to do with the current state of greek life.

also, i agree cu's housing is definately an issue we don't deal with at MU and i was always happy about that. it is a huge liability and also a huge stress-a bad year with recruitment and you cant fill the house, that really sucks. its also not easy from the school's perspective either. our ccd is the greek advisor at F&M inLancaster. they are a private school who just rerecognized their greeks and they are having tons of issues with the condition of the fraternity houses. some were even condemned by the city that added a lot of stress on the school with finding those students other housing etc.

as for ther LXA chapter, the decision was just made after the end of the semester and i don't know if nataionals are closing the chapter. as far as i know they are kicked off campus but i dont know for how long, etc. it sucks cuz they were the best fraternity on our campus. but there are things you can't let happen.... hopefully they can recover from it.

also, i do know the school is working on the new policy to start this fall if posible, but after alot of the issues we had thiss spring, they will have to push it back to the following fall. th eplan is in the works and they have started the eval processes.
and so you know, i am well aware of many of the past issues with greek life, especially stuff covered by the snapper, as i was an editor for all 4 of my years there.

as for the employer example......i meant, if a job required experience or more education, like a doctor or lab tech, it would not be prudent to have an unqualified person in the position putting people at risk, thus an employer might require certain credentials. like the 12 credit rule, as 1st semester freshman have no experience in the college environment. i do feel it is a little backward to allow freshman to join anything but greek orgs heir first semester. but i have yet to hear of working with a student newspaper or radio station or prayer group leading to students failing out or getting hurt. i think that is why administrators are weary of giving greeks everything they want and until we prove that we are just as valuable of an experience as some of these co-curriculars, it is going to be hard for us. i see greek life in general as having gone down hill for many years and at this point we can work with administrators, each other and our national offices to improve overall and return to being an unstopable, unquestionable force in higher ed or we can decide not to, but where is that going to take us?

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by lenoxxx
Some fascinating posts.

#1- When did Lambda Chi Alpha get tossed at Millersville? I wasnt aware that my fraternity got closed there. If you thought I was a Sig Tau member, I am not. However I had several High School friends pledge there and we kept in touch over the years to know what were hot button topics to them at MU, thus I actually ahd a copy of that article where Big Brother Millersville shafted free thought and democratic choice for the Greek Students. If MU actually made the changes you describe, I'd be shocked. My suspiscion (sp?) is that they are just telling you something that they will "try to do in the future" and will never deliver. Shippensburg has been well known for the empty promises to the greeks they have made for many many years, similar to the one you have described. Dznat, I am sure you are a dedicated sister of DZ, and I do not mean to insult you by telling you to not drink the Kool Aid. Be very wary of the "Big Brother" system at place at your school. Look up the copy of the "SNAPPER" I described, it is very troubling to see the democratic process get trampled on by a 30 year old memo at your University.

#2- Shippensburg a Hippie School? Perhaps an amish area prep school would be more appropriate. College students EVERYWHERE have always been about change and questioning authority. From anti war demonstrations to boycotts of campus services when student felt that labor unions were getting a raw deal are part of HIGHER learning. I.E question everything and open an honest debate about issues. I live near Penn State, there are rallies on the main street outside of campus every week for a variety of causes, speakers are brought in ranging from Michael Moore to Ann Coulter to push political and social agendas. While I do not agree with all of these I am glad the students are always pushing the boundaries and working to change things, this is and has been the American way. And as to the example of firing an employee over hiring practices, if the people in question didnt like the employment situtiaon enough they might sue the complany for unfair practices. Or if the company wanted to pursue excluding people (NFL v. Maurice Clarett) can they back it up in court?

Thanks

lenoxxx

See to me, or almost anyone on my campus, all this would be a load of crap. Please don't paint college students and campuses like this. The only protest they had on my campus since 1999 had something to do with 9-11, and then the ad-junct professors protested about pay and contracts or something. Many people don't care about student council issues, and the only thing people truly bitch about is how much they pay for books and how much they get back, and the lack of parking. They don't do anything about it.

I guess that's the joy of living in the 2000s and going to a commuter campus-- people are truly there to learn, get their degree, and move on with life. Everyone is too busy to deal with "Big Brother" or the "democratic processes". We leave it up to our student newspaper and student council to worry about. But I guess we're not living up to "the American way".

[lenoxxx]

Yes most people dont care about what is going on in their world in the 2000's. Look at pathetic voter turn out rates. When you have the attitude that the student government and the newspaper will take care of your problems for you, and you shouldnt have to worry about them, Big Brother would be very happy with you indeed. You have now reached the point of carefree apathy, where anything can and might happen to you, with no say. This goes beyond the college world but happens to extend out to the real world as well.

Thankfully our founding fathers didnt have the attitude that they should keep on paying taxes to the King, because it was the 1700's and paying homage to the royals in England was the thing to do, I mean all of the other parts of the British Empire did, why rock the boat?

In closing I suggest that you add the following books to your community college reading list, perhaps they have them in the library.

"Animal Farm" by George Orwell
"Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley
"Fahrenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury

Try to open your minds a little bit out there

Lenoxxx

[33girl]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
I guess that's the joy of living in the 2000s and going to a commuter campus-- people are truly there to learn, get their degree, and move on with life.

Phyllis, no offense, but the colleges we are talking about are not commuter schools, so I really don't think the comparison is valid.

If all you get out of college is book learning and a degree, you've really cheated yourself, and I can't believe how many people think that is just OK fine and dandy.

[Tom Earp]

lenoxxx and dznat187,

in reading this posting back and forth, can someone explain to me If Millersville is a Utopian College?

Are the Greeks there treated well as opposed to a concentrated second Social Group of Students?

Actually, dznat187, I do have to side with lenoxxx who has become an Alum of His and My Fraternity as to having a pretty good idea of what is transpiring as He is very active with His Chapter and LXA.

Keeping the pulse of all of GreekDom is a main importance.

So, is one School and one Greek Organization so important? You damn bet it is!

[saxton216]

First of all,

DZnat:

As a current brother of the Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity at Millersville University, I would appreciate it if you would from now on keep your mouth closed until you know what you're talking about. We all know how much you enjoy talking and hearing yourself do so, but enough is enough. In respect to my chapter and general fraternity, you don't know much. You've said it yourself "I don't know if nationals are closing the chapter..." I don't know about you, but I was brought up with the mentality that if I don't know what I'm talking about, don't act like I do. Besides, wherever you got your information regarding our chapter, it was false. Regardless of how much you may personally like to see Lambda Chi kicked off Millersville Campus, we haven't been nor do we plan on such action being the case. *and don't worry too much, we will undoubtedly recover*

However, at least you had the courtesy to limit yourself to your views on Greek activities on campus. I, along with my chapter, will be quite pleased the day we are permitted to initiate freshmen into our beloved organization. We pride ourselves on being mature enough to be able to accomplish our scholarship goals while at the same time maintain a healthy and enjoyable social life. I do hope you were making no insinuations that Greek organizations on Millersville's campus are only looking for good times. While Millersville may set forth requirements for participation in Fraternities/Sororities, we also adhere to our own stringent set of requirements. We do not simply look for guys to join our Fraternity so that we may grow in size. We scour the campus to find the most motivated, mature, dedicated men who will expand our character as well as help carry on the ideals which Lambda Chi Alpha is so proudly based upon.

For those who were wondering, (Tom Earp), NO, Greeks are not treated well, much less equally, on Millersville's campus. Everything we have/want we must fight for. While we have a full-time Greek Advisor employed by the university, communication between the University and our Greek Council is still rather difficult. Oftentimes it is questionable as to why the University pays a man salary to supposedly promote Greek Organizations while it does everything in it's power to prevent Greek growth. However, not all of us are willing to sit back and unconditionally accept what the administration hands to us via outdated memos.

And PM_Mamma -- since when does living in 2000 suggest that one is not pro-change or that it is the American Way? The way I see it the World was created on change, regardless of what your viewpoint is on how it was created. As in all things, change is necessary for growth, and growth is generally good. However, change doesn't just happen on it's own. It needs concious effort. If something or someone is so resistant to growth, than I fail to see it's purpose in existence. Now, while I'm not saying to go kill yourself if you're against change, however, if you don't plan on growing then it might be wise to get out of the way or you'll just keep getting stepped on. And seeing as though Millersville University is trapped inside an extremely conservative region of Southeastern Pennsylvania in which some 4,000 of approximately 7,000 students are commuters, I fail to see the validity in your claims.

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by Firehouse
33girl: Listen to what she's saying - AND SHE'S JUST FINE WITH IT! Her school is going to determine just exactly what in their mind makes an acceptable chapter, and then reward or punish non-compliers by allowing some to take new members in the fall and others to be prevented from doing so. And she thinks this is perfectly keen. Dear God. I'm amazed that our nation has reamined free for this long.
It's not up to the university to tell us what was "the way our Founders wanted us to." The Founders of my fraternity did not intend to set up a social service organization. Service is a noble virtue, but it's not the basis of my fraternity. My fraternity belongs to our members, not to the university administration. Here's my offer: let the university administration create a fraternity just the way they want, and let me create my own the way I want. Then we'll see which fraternity the greatest numbers of ambitious men want to join.
33girl, it's not just housing impact. It's the idea of being told that freshmen cannot join, or that we cannot take who we want when we want. If they keep freshmen from participating in ANYTHING, then I can live with that. But if we're the ugly stepchildren to whom freshmen cannot risk exposure, then I raise a hellacious objection to that.
It concerns me deeply that some young students are willing - even eager - to give up control of their own chapters. It's not even that they knuckle under to administrative bullying. The most disheartening thing about dznat187 is her glib embrace of big brother. She doesn't even see it as bullying. To her, the school makes the rules and that's just fine.
Help me out here, 33girl. You've always been the smartest one.

You are so COMPLETELY right on this one.

[dznat187]

I think Millersville has a decent respect and need for Greeks, but most greeks are too involved in whinning about what we don't have to see what we do, at least from what I've seen which was alot.

saxton216: sorry for the statement, I had heard it from a very valid source so I thought it had been correct. if i am wrong, i apologize. and just so you know, I would never want to see LXA gone at Millersville, it is the one redeeming fraternity that I hope the rest become like eventually.

as for the freshman thing, I feel it would be beneficial to some orgs on our campus, like you, ASA, AZD, etc. but for many it may not benefit the entire greek community, but then again you would never know until it happens. But i do know that my org and others have so many members who are amazing who joined after their freshman year and were able to bring so much more to the chapter and the community.

Also, I hope you all enjoy the rest of this topic, I'm going to bow out now and step away from the hostility i received from greeks, not from the administration.

Good luck all an dkeep the greek community going strong.

[33girl]

Originally posted by dznat187
as for the freshman thing, I feel it would be beneficial to some orgs on our campus, like you, ASA, AZD, etc. but for many it may not benefit the entire greek community, but then again you would never know until it happens.

Excuse me but what what? I'm wondering if this is a compliment to my sisters or not a compliment - clarification, please?

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by 33girl
Excuse me but what what? I'm wondering if this is a compliment to my sisters or not a compliment - clarification, please?

I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm with you, 33 -- what do you mean by this, dznat? Are you saying that we have to dupe freshmen into joining before they see what our true reputation is on that campus?

[dznat187]

no, i meant they are good chapters, who do well without "duping" freshman. and get great members who are juniors, sophomores, etc. no disrespect at all. these are great chapters at my school.

[saxton216]

dznat is right on that one -- chapters here at millersville are great chapters. They have a solid grasp on why they are in college and push each other to excell in their academics. With my chapter, our statistics show that individuals receive higher GPA's after association. That's a main factor why some of us are pushing so hard to be able to take on freshmen.

[lenoxxx]

Hey Saxton, I'm glad that you didnt get the boot off at Millersville. Keep the fight up to take freshmen at Millersville brother!

Lenoxxx

[Tom Earp]

saxton216,, good to see ya on Site to Explain things!

lenoxxx, DITTO ON YOUR POST!