Wachovia's Ties to Slavery

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by madmax
The people that deserve the apology are all dead.

We have a responsibility to be vigilant in remembering how our society has become what it is. The apology is no longer directed only toward those who were directly involved. It is a show of respect for those involved AND those today who continue to feel the effects.

There are, today, people in this country who do not realize how that we still have work to do.

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by madmax
Was that like, when blacks in LA burned down half the city after the OJ trial? How much in reparations were paid to all the white/asian business owners?

The individuals that were run out of town should be able to take legal action against the individuals that ran them out of town. You on the other hand probably want the rest of white America that had nothing to do with Rosewood pay reparations to the rest of Black America, who also had nothing to do with Rosewood.

You are making verrrry little sense right now. So I suggest you return to your corner and rethink your argument. Thanks.

And reparations isn't solely about money I wish people would remove that from their minds.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
To apologize means recognizing that it did happen and that corporations that are still in existence profitted from it. So in a way it does affect people who were never enslaved or owned slaves.

This is utter nonsense. Apologizing is not 'recognition' of any aftereffects of enslavement, and it is NOT a step toward curing these ills. Apologizing, in and of itself, is nothing but an appeasement. You should be pissed about this, if you truly believe in this cause, because it EFFECTIVELY ENDS THE DISCUSSION AND ALLOWS THE ISSUE TO GRIND TO A HALT INSTEAD OF PROGRESSING TO AN END.

Also, you've never addressed Rudey's point about why banks have been well-researched compared to other institutions. "I think there was a study about monuments" is not an effective retort, but rather a strawman for the issue.

Also, if reparations aren't about money, why is an exchange of money even included in the requests? If it's about curing societal ills, let's actively work toward curing the effects - handing someone cash does little to destroy ingrained inequity. [ETA: my point here is that the money should probably go to better use in programs that actively address the issues that are connected to slavery, instead of lump-sum payments to individuals. I don't know what those programs would be, so maybe the money should go to researching a better understanding of that, as well.]

Apologies from a conglomerate that purchased a bank 150 years ago that allowed slaves as colatteral also serve to do very little to solve inequities.

Let's put this another way - if every person who in any way ever had any contact with owning of African slaves were to give a heartfelt apology, would that end the issue of slavery's lingering effects on African Americans in the US?

Of course not. So let's get to the actual point here.

[TheEpitome1920]

Who said that apologzing was the end all to be all?? It's a START and an important start at that!

And there are several books written about the usage of slave labor to build national monuments. One is The Debt by Randall Robinson if you want to be more specific.

I need you to read before you respond to my comments. I said reparations isn't SOLELY about money. Most people, white folks in particular, think that the government is going to ask them to come out of their pockets to give Black folks money. That is not what organizers/supporters are simply asking for. They are asking for funding for programs/foundations to help level the playing field.

Why is it whenever dicussions about inequality are brought up on GC people get ridiculously defensive and refuse to admit that wrongs have been done to particular groups of people in this country? And refuse to see that something that may have happened 150 years ago CONTINUES to affect the country?

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
Who said that apologzing was the end all to be all?? It's a START and an important start at that!

You and I have different definitions of 'important' - and in fact we may disagree on the meaning of 'start' but I digress. This apology smells of wasted effort, and very little return on this effort to directly impact the plight of black Americans.

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
I need you to read before you respond to my comments. I said reparations isn't SOLELY about money. Most people, white folks in particular, think that the government is going to ask them to come out of their pockets to give Black folks money. That is not what organizers/supporters are simply asking for. They are asking for funding for programs/foundations to help level the playing field.

No one has made any comments to the effect of "money from my pocket" in this thread. I can appreciate your frustration and your ranting, but I'm trying to address exactly this point - can you, or anyone else, provide a systemic approach for leveling this playing field? Why don't we address this topic directly, and with our full attention and resources? HOW, not why.

Until we have such an approach in hand, we are simply being wasteful by seeking out inconsequential 'victories' of this type for African Americans. We don't know what war we're fighting - and it is 'we', as the issue affects all Americans.

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
Why is it whenever dicussions about inequality are brought up on GC people get ridiculously defensive and refuse to admit that wrongs have been done to particular groups of people in this country? And refuse to see that something that may have happened 150 years ago CONTINUES to affect the country?

Wait, I'm being defensive here? The irony button is blinking.

No one has 'refused to admit' that slavery existed, that slavery was horrific, and that the enslavement and any aftereffects are confined to the black population for all intents and purposes.

Instead, I'm trying to address the problem - whacking Wachovia over the wrist and wringing out an apology (for purchasing another bank, at that) simply doesn't smack of advancement to me.

One more time: if we're going to find a solution to this particular problem, this sort of apology will not be a major portion of it, and questing for such apologies does little or nothing to impact the plight of black Americans.

[TheEpitome1920]

Recognition of a problem is often the first step, no? When you don't recognize something how can you work to solve the problem? That's where the apology comes in.

In Robinson's book (which I don't have on hand at the moment) outlines one of the many proposals. If anyone is geniunely interested in these issues I think they would encourage our government to make serious moves. There have been other instances in our country's history where groups have been given reparations, so why is this conversation so difficult to have when it comes to Black folks? Is it simply because the people who were actually enslaved have passed on??

And madmax did make a reference to money out of pocket

You on the other hand probably want the rest of white America that had nothing to do with Rosewood pay reparations to the rest of Black America, who also had nothing to do with Rosewood.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
I said reparations isn't SOLELY about money. Most people, white folks in particular, think that the government is going to ask them to come out of their pockets to give Black folks money. That is not what organizers/supporters are simply asking for. They are asking for funding for programs/foundations to help level the playing field.

Exactly

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
Recognition of a problem is often the first step, no? When you don't recognize something how can you work to solve the problem? That's where the apology comes in.

And a big CO-SIGN on this as well. Great posts, Epitome.

[hoosier]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920

And reparations isn't solely about money I wish people would remove that from their minds.

Webster's II New Riverside Pocket Dictionary (revised edition):

"Reparations. War payments required from a defeated nation."

Until someone tells me which war we lost, I oppose reparations.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by hoosier
Webster's II New Riverside Pocket Dictionary (revised edition):

"Reparations. War payments required from a defeated nation."

Until someone tells me which war we lost, I oppose reparations.

S: (n) reparation (compensation (given or received) for an insult or injury) "an act for which there is no reparation"
S: (n) reparation ((usually plural) compensation exacted from a defeated nation by the victors) "Germany was unable to pay the reparations demanded after World War I"
S: (n) repair, fix, fixing, fixture, mend, mending, reparation (the act of putting something in working order again)
S: (n) reparation, amends (something done or paid in expiation of a wrong) "how can I make amends"

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by hoosier
Webster's II New Riverside Pocket Dictionary (revised edition):

"Reparations. War payments required from a defeated nation."

Until someone tells me which war we lost, I oppose reparations.

We lost the war of treating people, regardless of skin color, like human beings.Goes back to when barbaric colonizers first set foot on this continent to June 3, 2005 and counting...

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
S: (n) reparation (compensation (given or received) for an insult or injury) "an act for which there is no reparation"
S: (n) reparation ((usually plural) compensation exacted from a defeated nation by the victors) "Germany was unable to pay the reparations demanded after World War I"
S: (n) repair, fix, fixing, fixture, mend, mending, reparation (the act of putting something in working order again)
S: (n) reparation, amends (something done or paid in expiation of a wrong) "how can I make amends"

Thanks PJ!

[Tom Earp]

WOW, Slavery Did Happen. It is a Historical Fact, no doubt about it.

Beating a Dead Horse is not going to change History. If you can change History fine, explain to Me and the Rest of Us How You are going to do it.

You keep saying in ToTo about How down trodden you as Blacks are.

Is there still Racial Prejiduce, yes there is, in many forms. Oh, not just Black and White.

Please dont Wear You So Called Burden on the backs of everyone who You think wants to hear or You want to wear it.


TheEpitome1920,

trying to figure out your Date Structure.

Why dont some of you forget about color and try to act like you are part of the Human Race?


I dont think what Our Men/Women who are fighting a War is or has anything to do with Color.

Your God Damn Pettiness is sickening! This is not pointed towards one individual poster but a myrid of You.

If you have a problem with this Post, PM Me!

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
I wonder how many Blacks folks will keep their shares?

I can't imagine anyone giving up their shares---especially if they're very profitable.

Most people aren't idealistic enough to give up their retirement, college funds, or personal savings regarding something that most American institutions with histories dating to that era were connected to in some way.

Brown and Yale's ties to slavery haven't affected the application rates for black students, nor have African-American members of their Corporations resigned. Aetna hasn't an experienced a mass exodus of black customers. These revelations have not impacted the way that we do business.

[hoosier]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
We lost the war of treating people, regardless of skin color, like human beings.Goes back to when barbaric colonizers first set foot on this continent to June 3, 2005 and counting...

I'm still confused: who won?

And how do you explain the people trying to get to the USA, via inner tubes from the islands, via their legs from Mexico, via decrepid boats from Vietnam. etc. If the USA is so bad, why is immigration one of our biggest problems?

If we put an empty ship at the harbor in Miami or Long Beach, with a sign saying "Free one-way trips to Africa", and a ship in the harbor in (your choice: any African city, Russia, Palestine, China, India, etc.) with a sign "Free one-way trips to USA), which would fill up faster?