Convention

[Coramoor]

Although I see the possible negatives with the abuse of alcohol, those possibilities are there for everyone, whether you're MoP or not. That's one thing I don't understand about the whole argument. You can be MoP and have a good time.

That's kind of my point.

What I got was that a lot of the MoP guys pretty much blamed all the sins of the world on alcohol.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

I think maybe that might be because it seems that it is one of the big and obvious things that need to be tackled, because it is one of the first things related to Fraternities and it is related to the majority of risk management incidents. I will say though that it is not the only problem, and it is only a problem with a few... i think, even though, every chapter has to address it sometime...

[Coramoor]

You are right in that regard, but to say that one of the main directives of every chapter should be going dry is wrong.

It's all about self-control, in many situations. If a person can't handle themselves when drunk, how do they handle themselves in other situations?

Another thing I kind of noticed was that it seemed to me that MoP wants to make it easier to get into Beta. The entire 'Bid only those that you want to see become a brother'.

It's hard, or near impossible, to get an accurate description of a person you just met. It can take weeks to really find out what a person is like. Longer pledging processes and harder pledging brings out people's true colors.

Its like in the Army. You don't know what a person is made of until you see them under pressure. I personally want to see that before I accept someone in my fraternity. I don't want someone that's going to break down or crack under a little stress. That's not what Beta's are. We are leaders in every regard and someone that can't face stress and difficult situations without breaking down is not a leader.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Oh, I agree... totally dry is out of question



on the 'Bid only those that you want to see become a brother'... I think that means to be a little more picky when given out bids. You still have to vote for them to become initiated. You still can say no if the guy is not right for beta. However, this quote, where do you get it, becuase I dont see it in the Men of Principal Partnership agreement.

Ultimately, partnered chapters are no different than any other chapter of Beta Theta Pi. All it is is a commitment that is already expected... to live by the 3 goals, 7 obligations, and the code of Beta. I mean, everything expected of a MoP is in one of those three groups. So... I dont understand the problems with joining it. At the same time, it now occurs to me that we need it in order to live by those three categories.

[Coramoor]

We had a guy from nationals come down and try to get us to go MoP.

Our President asked him 'Why do we need to become MoP, when every Beta should already be living by what we stand for?'

The rep. couldn't answer that.

If you are a Beta, you should already be following those standards.

I only see a huge rift in chapters. On top of that, almost every time a chapter get's in trouble it is a requirement to go MoP in order to come back.

Edit: Do you know a chick Katie Leon? She's a Pi Phi.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

I know who katie is but I dont like KNOW her. She is on the crew team I think.

I think the Men of Principal is mainly a campaign. It looks goon on paper and reads well. It say who we are without having to read the Ritual book. It has a catchy title, and it collects a butt load of money. Its purpose that I can think of is mainly to making us look better on paper.

Another area I say it benifits pledge ed. I like though that pledges study the 9 goals. It gives them a real focus on what we are about. They can learn history til they are blue in the face but studying the goals of the MoP gives them a purpose to that history and thats kind of sweet.

[ZZ-kai-]

Hey guys, I'm not going to speak too much on this topic as I am not an undergrad anymore. My chapter is non-MoP by choice - for now. Most of our Alumni don't want them to go MoP because they feel the chapter will be put into restraints. I personally love the MoP vision and I think the numbers speak for themselves - As an Alumni, they'd have my vote to go MoP if they so chose.

That being said, it's not fair to say "MoP chapters area blah blah blah" and 'non-MoP chapters are blah blah blah", because 90% of MoP chapters either re-orged as MoP chapters, or they voted and chose to go MoP. So, the brothers in MoP chapters either were MoP from the get-go or they voted and chose to be MoP.

There is a movement in the Greek world, and Beta's MoP is leading the way. It has been for nearly a decade now. Other greeks are copying our programs. Look at Sig Ep's 'Balanced Man' project....they are doing pretty much our MoP, except they named it 'Balanced Man'.

Unfortunately chapters that do not follow the MoP beliefs (partnered or not), they will eventually fail because they are not living the Three Great Principles.

That being said, MoP or not, we're all Beta's and should be 'earning our badge and living our principles everyday'.

[Coramoor]

That being said, MoP or not, we're all Beta's and should be 'earning our badge and living our principles everyday'.

That's right on.

However, there is a pretty big difference between MoP chapters and those that are not. It's growing somewhat less in a few regards now, but for awhile many of the programs that Beta offered were basically only offered to MoP chapters (not in writing, but in actuality). That's changing now, but there are still a lot of other differences.

My E.C. visits my chapter once a semester, however the MoP chapters get a lot of extra attention and help in certain activities than the non MoP chapters do in my area.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Are you sure that is not because they are Colonies?

[Coramoor]

Non of the chapters in my district are colonies.

[ECUJacob]

My E.C. visits my chapter once a semester, however the MoP chapters get a lot of extra attention and help in certain activities than the non MoP chapters do in my area.

I'm in a MoP chapter and we see our E.C. once a semester and sometimes not even that much. I think E.C.'s base their involvement on the development of the chapter, not it's current MoP standing. Side note: our E.C. rocks.

[Betarulz!]

I think the biggest issue facing MOP is the perpetuation of myths by non MOP chapters and alumni.

There is a huge feeling that if you go MOP, suddenly you can't use alcohol, or that your house/living arrangement has to be dry. Believe me, Nebraska was the pilot chapter of MOP, and there is always a lot of alcohol flowing on the weekends. I mean we always talk about having a dry party, but it never, ever happens.

Alcohol is certainly not the devil. "Tradition" is what kills chapters, and the refusal to change in the name of tradition. Alcohol doesn't lead to the whole "I was hazed as a pledge, so now I'm going to haze pledges...I've earned it."

It's a shame that there are chapters so tied to the idea of being dry that they seek to limit the fun of others.

Are there limitations, probably some, but not as many as people think. I really believe that. Other than Kickoff weekend (now a one afternoon thing) and mid year retreat (now usually just a thing for execs), there's nothing that I can think of that we were like "we have to do this b/c of MOP".

On the whole, though, I think that any restrictions that are part of the deal need to recognize the differences in campus culture. For us here at UNL, dry rush is not a problem, b/c every chapter rushes dry (for the most part...every year a couple of kids are rumored to have signed b/c they were taken out by a chapter). However, I know that at many campuses, a truly dry rush would be a death knell, and the chapter would be on the outs rather quickly.

And while some non partnered chapters may not believe me, the thing that sets MOP apart from things like balanced man and Sigma Nu's LEAD, is that it is not a top down approach. The GF doesn't come in and say you need to improve on these things. Kickoff weekend is all about the chapter identifying it's own weak areas (in line with the 9 goals identified by the GF) and the chapter coming up with it's own ways of solving that problem. The GF simply says, we'd like to be strong in these areas, then facilitates (not leads...there is a very big distinction) sessions to improve in those areas.

Also, a.e.B.O.T, GaTech has not won Knox awards every year. They've won Sissons every year...that's a big difference.

As for the need to partner...you can't argue with success. The results between partnered chapters and non-partnered chapters are for the most part staggering. But is it necessary? No. I think what it comes down to is that MOP can be a tool for your chapter exceeding what anyone thought possible. That's all it is, a tool available to be used as a catalyst for growth. Actually, I really like the idea of a catalyst, b/c it speeds up the rate at which you reach your goals more than anything. I mean seriously, in 1995, our alumni cleaned house and the chapter went from nearly 90 members down to 13...Ten years later, we win the f'ing NIC Award of Distinction as one of the best chapters in the nation. I don't know if that would have been possible without MOP. It's hard to say, but I would tend to think that we wouldn't have even won a Knox to this point were it not for MOP.

In the end, MOP is a positive thing for our fraternity, and there should be continued effort to expand it to more chapters.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

sorry, i meant to say sisson

well said Betarulz

[ECUJacob]

snaps to Betarulz! for that post.

[sdbeta1]

Originally posted by DoctorThursday


2. Phi Delta Theta vs. Beta Theta Pi: The song says "boys who could not be Betas" because there was no Beta at Miami in the winter of 1848. Look up the "Snow Rebellion" and see what really happened... this history is well-known. There is even a hint that its founders knew about two earlier fraternities: examine the names again...

Alpha Delta Phi
Beta Theta Pi
Phi Delta Theta

See anything there?

Question for extra credit: what does any of this have to do with the source of Beta's dragon?

BUMP. I don't know what this has to do with the source of Beta's dragon, I really need a copy of the Faithful Home. Anyone care to elaborate on the "boys who could not be Betas" song?