B.E.T.'s Comments on President Reagan - Page 3

AKA2D '91 · #31 06-08-2004, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reds6
Can I get a show of hands of those that actually remember his presidency and not what you studied in school. I think I'm older than a lot of people on this board and when he took office I was in elementary school.

That's what I'm talking about.

I saw one little guy saying Reagan was a "great man". I was like... You were not even BORN or possibly thought of while he was President. What he should have said was, "my mom/dad thought he was a great man."

LOL

As with Nixon (Pres. when I was born) and those before, I get my frame of reference from my parents/ relatives.

msn4med1975 · #32 06-08-2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KellyB369
I do not call anyone a white leader so I can't relate to what is being said about black leaders. I understand that you would not support someone just because they are the same race as you, but I don't understand why so many black people say there are not enough blacks in leadership roles but then the blacks who are leaders don't really seem to count because of their views. If we had a black president who was a staunch Republican and did not support the so-called black issues would your race not be glad that a black person was finally elected to such a high honor? Maybe you wouldn't be because you say that racial background doesn't matter but I think that people who just want blacks to have more leadership in this country should be happy with that regardless of their views. I HATE Hillary but if she was elected Pres I would at least think it was a positive step for women.

Being happy about an HONOR does not constitute support. If a Black Republican was elected great, it shows the country is moving into that melting pot we keep spouting off about. Does it mean I wouldn't be working to actively get his butt out of office if I thought he was doing harm to my community? Nope, I'd be lobbying against him from day one. Just to have someone there is of no use to any group, minority or women, if they have no desire to enact change for the betterment of everyone INCLUDING the group they represent. If a woman was running for an office and she didn't represent my political ideology there's no way I'd vote for her unless her oponent was a complete idiot. And while there may be folks that just want someone in office that represents that group, most of the group would PREFER that those folks were trying to do something positive.

Pike1483 · #33 06-08-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
That's what I'm talking about.

I saw one little guy saying Reagan was a "great man". I was like... You were not even BORN or possibly thought of while he was President. What he should have said was, "my mom/dad thought he was a great man."

LOL

As with Nixon (Pres. when I was born) and those before, I get my frame of reference from my parents/ relatives.

What the heck? I guess since some of us are young, we can't determine that Reagan was a good leader! That argument is crap! None of us were alive when George Washington was alive, yet most of still think he was a good man and a good leader! It's called studying and being well-informed about the people, not living at the same time as them.

As for my "black leader" comments, maybe I should have said "Leaders who are black."

Question, if Dr. Rice and Sec. Powell were liberal democrats, do you think they would be considered "black leaders?"

Rudey · #34 06-08-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Question 1: The report did not give that information. There are many AA and other minority judges out there. The question is was their ideology like that of the President? or did he care not to appoint them even if they shared the same ideology? If the latter is the case, why not? was it not popular at the time?

Question 2: You tell me. I'm speaking about Reagan and the all of the 'black" leaders and their careers he's supposedly responsible for (that someone mentioned in this thread).

It wasn't until Clinton's tenure that MORE minorities were appointed to cabinet-level positions.

Obiviously, his lack of inclusiveness is apparent. If it were not apparent, this discussion and many discussions like this would not take place as his legacy is being reviewed and discussed.

1) If you're going to insinuate something about a man, at least look for the information. For a person to be a judge, it's quite a long process starting with...law school. So do you really think there were that many black people that had gone to law school back then, became lawyers, became judges, and on and on? And do you know which black judges he didn't appoint given that they shared the same ideology?

2) You seem to have a great measurement system. Reagan had 1 minority in his cabinet and Clinton had more. Since you made an inference to his character based on him appointing 1 black person to his cabinet, YOU should tell me how many blacks were in previous cabinets and how many in succeeding ones. Just so you know President Bush has more minorities on his cabinet than any other president. This doesn't make him seem as though he cares about blacks and it shouldn't. In fact having blacks on your cabinet does not say anything to whether you are or aren't racist.

-Rudey

Rudey · #35 06-08-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
What we have to remember is that he was true to his convictions. If he chose to handle things the way he did... IT'S OKAY!

IT'S OKAY that he was against the MLK holiday (documented). I am against the report that someone wants his face on Mt. Rushmore. So?
IT'S OKAY that he only appointed one black person to his cabinet.
IT'S OKAY that he had his ideology and beliefs.
IT'S OKAY that he and his kids had problems, but later reconciled.

I am OKAY with what he did or did not do. I did not like some of the things he did. During his tenure I was what 8-16. I didn't understand much, but I was not totally ignorant to what was going on...

Everyone, IT'S OKAY. Just recognized that he was who he was ( to you).

IT'S OKAY!

He appointed one black person? So what. Put that in context. Bush appointed more. I guess using that logic Bush has helped out the black community tremendously.

He has his ideology and beliefs and the weather outside is hot. What the hell does that mean?

He and his kids had problems? So what. What does that have to do with anything?

-Rudey

Kevin · #36 06-08-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msn4med1975
Actually that is the point. Just because they are minority and in office doesn't mean they represent OTHER minorities. They represent themselves and those that SHARE their views. Condi, Colon, Al, Jesse don't represent the reality for Black America. As as a result they wouldn't be considered leaders for THOSE people. But actually why would you be happy just because a woman was in office if she didn't do anything to support women's causes? Just saying we are there isn't something to just jump for joy about. Especially if they are actively working to undo any gains women or minorities have made.

What are black causes?

You seem to imply that these folks don't support black causes and I was just wondering which causes all black people supported or needed?

AKA2D '91 · #37 06-08-2004, 02:28 PM

IT'S OKAY!

IT'S OKAY!
IT'S OKAY!
IT'S OKAY!

Tell the media to stop discussing his legacy which includes his family relations (while in the white house)! I don't need to innsinuate anything. I'm repeating what was reported.

Again, IT'S OKAY!

See, how so called personal attacks begin on here? IT'S OKAY!
Can we begin the ban? I'm offended! GET JOHN! He (Rudey) thinks I make no sense!

IT'S OKAY!

IT'S OKAY! IT'S OKAY! IT'S OKAY!

AKA2D '91 · #38 06-08-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pike1483
Question, if Dr. Rice and Sec. Powell were liberal democrats, do you think they would be considered "black leaders?"

I don't care what their political affiliations are or who considers them a leader. I AM A REGISTERED INDEPENDENT. It doesn't matter to me.

msn4med1975 · #39 06-08-2004, 02:33 PM

There is no cause that ALL Blacks need supported. However there are a few: better educational opportunities in public schools, funding for higher education, making sure predominantly minority areas are not overrun by drugs and violence which are more salient for most minorities. The current administration's policies are not making any strides in those areas so if you are in the CURRENT administration you are not supporting those causes.

Rudey · #40 06-08-2004, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
IT'S OKAY!
IT'S OKAY!
IT'S OKAY!
IT'S OKAY!

Tell the media to stop discussing his legacy which includes his family relations (while in the white house)! I don't need to innsinuate anything. I'm repeating what was reported.

Again, IT'S OKAY!

See, how so called personal attacks begin on here? IT'S OKAY!
Can we begin the ban? I'm offended! GET JOHN! He (Rudey) thinks I make no sense! IT'S OKAY!

IT'S OKAY! IT'S OKAY! IT'S OKAY!

What are you talking about?? Why don't we discuss Reagan's family relations in comparison to say...family relations within the black community? Is that an appropriate benchmark?

-Rudey

Kimmie1913 · #41 06-08-2004, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KellyB369
I do not call anyone a white leader so I can't relate to what is being said about black leaders. I understand that you would not support someone just because they are the same race as you, but I don't understand why so many black people say there are not enough blacks in leadership roles but then the blacks who are leaders don't really seem to count because of their views. If we had a black president who was a staunch Republican and did not support the so-called black issues would your race not be glad that a black person was finally elected to such a high honor? ((emphasis added)Maybe you wouldn't be because you say that racial background doesn't matter but I think that people who just want blacks to have more leadership in this country should be happy with that regardless of their views. I HATE Hillary but if she was elected Pres I would at least think it was a positive step for women.

(This is not directed just to KellyB369)

Hear me and hear me good...this is the fundamental problem with the way minority groups are dealt with in this country. I cannot speak for my race. Colin Powell cannot speak for my race. My soror msn4med1975 cannot speak for my race. In 19 years of education and 6 years of professional work I have come to be sick to death of being asked to answer questions for all of the Back people in America. This is part of the marginilization of minorities in America. It seems ridiculous to ask any random white person to speak for all white people in the country yet it is some how acceptable to do it to a person of color. It happens in workplaces and classrooms throughout the country daily. It is an extension of the US/THEM mentality that is still so prevalent. We are viewed as a cohesive group that should all think, act and be alike. There is little room for true diversity of viewpoints within the race.

There is a profound difference between being a leader who is Black and Black leader. The latter implies you are out to lead Black people. Many of those deemed by themselves or the media to be Black leaders are not leading me and countless other Black folks anywhere. Unless all white folks are expected to unequivocally support whatever another white person does, do not expect that Black people will do it either.

Should a Black person become President, I will be pleased that the country could look past race when selecting a leader. If I do not agree with that President's ideology, THEY WILL NOT GET MY VOTE regardless of the fact that he or she is Black.

As far a Reagan is concerned- a person died and that is always sad. I am sure his family is heartbroken. At the same time he was 93 ad had a long life. Part of life is accepting that we will all be called home at some time. As far as the deifying of Reagan that is going on in the media right now, I am sick of it. He was the president like 39 before him and 3 since. I never found him to be an exceptional president, I found his policies to be steeped in classism and an underlying racism that many will not admit to. So be it. He had been out of office for over a decade. Revisionary history bothers me but it part of human nature. The thing about history is that the one telling the story gets to determine what the truth will be. How his era is taught going forward will be interesting.

AKA2D '91 · #42 06-08-2004, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
What are you talking about?? Why don't we discuss Reagan's family relations in comparison to say...family relations within the black community? Is that an appropriate benchmark?

-Rudey

IT'S OKAY!

ETA: I'd like to know what are YOUR family relations like in the Black Community? Or better than that what are family relations like in the black community?

hmmmmmmm (picking up my notebook to take notes so I'll know when I start my family)

Was your family relations like mine? Was my family relations like my Soror Ideal's? my frat brother Professor? My sister in greekdom CT4?

(Sorry for bringing your names into this)... LMAO

CAN THE BAN PROCESS BEGIN? I'M OFFENDED. SOMEONE THOUGHT MY IDEOLOGY DID NOT MAKE ANY SENSE! WHERE IS THE JUSTICE! NO JUSTICE! NO PEACE!

LMAO up in here...up in here!
ETAA: I'm headed back across the RailRoad Tracks. There is too much comedy on this side.

Taualumna · #43 06-08-2004, 02:45 PM

What exactly is a "black cause" (or a "female cause", "minority cause" etc?) By saying that Condi and Powell don't represent "black causes", you're implying that all blacks live the same way and have the exact same "causes", and we all know that this isn't the case. Yes, there are some common causes, but there are also differences. It's like my pro-life example. There are women out there who are pro-life, and they shouldn't be condemned because they are. There are Asians and Hispanics out there who feel that learning English (or in the case of French Canada, French) is more important than emphasizing their homeland's language (it's all about getting out into the broader community. Not knowing English well will hurt one's chances of succeeding outside of the community. You need to know English to succeed in school, especially if you want to be a doctor or lawyer.). I don't think it's very nice to call people like Condi and Powell sell outs because they can be good rolemodels for all, not just blacks.

Kevin · #44 06-08-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msn4med1975
There is no cause that ALL Blacks need supported. However there are a few: better educational opportunities in public schools, funding for higher education, making sure predominantly minority areas are not overrun by drugs and violence which are more salient for most minorities. The current administration's policies are not making any strides in those areas so if you are in the CURRENT administration you are not supporting those causes.

The Secretary of State and the Chief advisor on foriegn relations are supposed to do anything about this stuff? I haven't heard them come out against these things....

What would one of them have to do to support these causes? And would they be listened to? I get a very strong impression that they would be considered sellouts solely because of their affiliation with the wrong party.

Rudey · #45 06-08-2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
IT'S OKAY!

ETA: I'd like to know what are YOUR family relations like in the Black Community? Or better than that what are family relations like in the black community? hmmmmmmm (picking up my notebook to take notes so I'll know when I start my family)

Was your family relations like mine? Was my family relations like my Soror Ideal's? my frat brother Professor? My sister in greekdom CT4? (Sorry for bringing your names into this)... LMAO

CAN THE BAN PROCESS BEGIN? I'M OFFENDED. SOMEONE THOUGHT MY IDEOLOGY DID NOT MAKE ANY SENSE! WHERE IS THE JUSTICE! NO JUSTICE! NO PEACE!

LMAO up in here...up in here!
ETAA: I'm headed back across the RailRoad Tracks. There is too much comedy on this side.

You're the one that knows so much about family relations so I figured you would know. Ronald never left Nancy to make another single mother household though.

-Rudey
--Seriously lady, what drug do you take because you are weirding me out.