There has been many rumors about the draft starting back

[Rollergirl2001]

Also, we have many liberties just like some other countries. In other countries, if you say something bad about the leader of the country, then you die. In the US, yiu can say something bad without taking it too far.

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by James
Personally, I haven't liked canada since the movie South Park showed us how they all have flapping heads and beady eyes.

It unnerved me.

LOL - this is the funniest thing I've heard all day. Can we make this the quote of the week?

[PhiPsiRuss]

Because we can't do everything, we should do nothing? I reject that on principle.

There are only several nations in the world that are truly genocidal. I will always support intervention in those nations, and I will always be ashamed when the US chooses to do nothing.

Unfortunately, we can't engage in several theaters at once. Thanks to Bill Clinton, we can't even fully engage in two theaters at once anymore. We have to choose which actions we will take, and unfortunately, we have to choose conflicts where other interests dovetail with the morally correct thing to do.

To criticize the US government because we have motivation that is indepenedent of morality is, in my opinion, a specious argument. No war is ever fought for one reason. It is fought over several reasons.

Which brings us back to evading the draft. Choosing a single reason to protest a war is intellectually dishonest. Using only that one reason, without balancing out all motivating factors, is either an act of ignorance, or cowardice. If you are drafted, you serve. Period. If you are a pacifist, you can serve in capacities that are not directly related to warfare.

I am opposed to the draft, but if it returns, it will return through a democratic process. A society can't function when its citizens pick and choose which laws they will obey.

Originally posted by James
Russ, I think we get reproached becaue we tend to trot out the morality card when our interests are involved in other ways.

Its not like we make a systematic attempt to stop genocide. WE aren't making lists of countries that need to be intervened it. We use morality as a cover to go in for other reasons. Stopping genocide is a happy plus.

Now, I personally have no problem with us killing foreign people just to further American Interests, but I don't need things sugar coated like many seem to require.

I think the use of a moral cloak is more dangerous because its misinformation.

[James]

Shall we light up another joint?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by James
Shall we light up another joint?

Mini hijack.

Funny.

Last year we moved into an "adult" community where there are a number of retirees. We had a little impromptu block party Friday night and one of the new neighbors I met was a retired FBI Special Agent who had been assigned to the NY office and then transferred to Chicago, and was there during the 1968 Democratic National Convention.

He was stationed in Grant Park during one of the CPD sweeps and felt trapped between the "hippies" and the cops. His perspective was pretty interesting as someone who was "older" when I was a college student.

End of hijack.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by DeltAlum


Last year we moved into an "adult" community where there are a number of retirees.

Mini-hijack Part II:

The phrase "adult community" sounds kinda funny to me. Is it like a pre-retirement community? Are there no kids allowed?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Mini-hijack Part II:

The phrase "adult community" sounds kinda funny to me. Is it like a pre-retirement community? Are there no kids allowed?

Answer to Mini-Hijack Part II:

The answer is "sort of..."

It's actually called "An Active Adult Country Club Community." It is a gated community built around a new golf course (neither Mrs. DA or I play -- go figure). By covenant, 80% of the residents have to be at least 55 years old or older. Children aren't allowed unless they're over 19. In other words, if you have college age kids like us, they can live with your for the summer or whatever. And, of course, grand children, etc. are always welcome. (We watch ours two or three days a week.)

We actually moved here after some friends did because Mrs. DA can use the facilities at the great clubhouse for her home business. There are also an indoor and outdoor pool, hot tub, sauna, exercize center, library, billiards room, computer center, workshop, meeting rooms, a multi-purpose room with a stage and a great restaurant and bar where the bartender pours a great drink. Also some great common areas to sit around and play cards or chess or whatever.

Fair number of Greek alums, too.

What sold me was sitting out on the patio of the club house, drink in hand, watching the sun go down over the golf course and the Front Range.

Pretty nice. And Quiet. Lots of party animals on our street, though.

End of Hijack answer.

Why is it everytime someone talks about wars the morality card is pulled? Why do we have to go on a moral tyrade when defending wars? It's as if wars equal holiness or morality. This war is not about our freedoms or morality. It's about finishing what Bush, Sr. didn't and about oil. What do you think helped the Bush family make their millions? Oil and baseball. Two American favorites. One helps fuel an American pasttime (i.e. driving) and one is an American pasttime within itself.

If the draft were to be reinstated and women were included, hell yea, I'd be the lead car leading a procession to Canada. If it weren't for the wars Canada fought in, we wouldn't have freedoms to so-call "defend" in useless wars.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ztawinthropgirl
Why is it everytime someone talks about wars the morality card is pulled? Why do we have to go on a moral tyrade when defending wars? It's as if wars equal holiness or morality. This war is not about our freedoms or morality. It's about finishing what Bush, Sr. didn't and about oil. What do you think helped the Bush family make their millions? Oil and baseball. Two American favorites. One helps fuel an American pasttime (i.e. driving) and one is an American pasttime within itself.

If the draft were to be reinstated and women were included, hell yea, I'd be the lead car leading a procession to Canada. If it weren't for the wars Canada fought in, we wouldn't have freedoms to so-call "defend" in useless wars.

Wow.

-Rudey

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by ztawinthropgirl
It's about finishing what Bush, Sr. didn't and about oil.

Wrong and wrong. Try again.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by ztawinthropgirl


If the draft were to be reinstated and women were included, hell yea, I'd be the lead car leading a procession to Canada. If it weren't for the wars Canada fought in, we wouldn't have freedoms to so-call "defend" in useless wars.

All hail Canada! Worldwide defender of freedom!

If not for them, the free world would cease to be!

Yeah right.

[DeltAlum]

I don't understand the animosity toward Canada. Their government disagrees with our on the subject of Iraq. So do a lot of others, but Canada isn't nearly as harsh or outspoken about it as Germany or Russia or even our other "allies."

Does this mean that if "you" and "I" disagree on politics we can't still be friends?

I, for one, am pretty happy to have Canada at our Northern border as oppossed to some other countries.

[Rudey]

Some people have trouble understanding that nobody dislikes Canada.

-Rudey

[WCUgirl]

Can we please fix the grammatical errors in the thread title? Every time this thread pops up to the top it's like fingernails down a chalkboard to me....

Thanks!

[Kevin]

It's currently in committee in the senate and will probably never see the light of day in its present form.

The registration for females part MAY come up.

Here's the bill:

Universal National Service Act of 2003 (Introduced in Senate)

S 89 IS


108th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 89
To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

January 7, 2003
Mr. HOLLINGS introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF CONTENTS.

(a) SHORT TITLE- This Act may be cited as the `Universal National Service Act of 2003'.

(b) TABLE OF CONTENTS- The table of contents for this Act is as follows:

Sec. 1. Short title; table of contents.

Sec. 2. National service obligation.

Sec. 3. Two-year period of national service.

Sec. 4. Implementation by the President.

Sec. 5. Induction.

Sec. 6. Deferments and postponements.

Sec. 7. Induction exemptions.

Sec. 8. Conscientious objection.

Sec. 9. Discharge following national service.

Sec. 10. Registration of females under the Military Selective Service Act.

Sec. 11. Relation of Act to registration and induction authority of Military Selective Service Act.

Sec. 12. Definitions.

SEC. 2. NATIONAL SERVICE OBLIGATION.

(a) OBLIGATION FOR YOUNG PERSONS- It is the obligation of every citizen of the United States, and every other person residing in the United States, who is between the ages of 18 and 26 to perform a period of national service as prescribed in this Act unless exempted under the provisions of this Act.

(b) FORM OF NATIONAL SERVICE- National service under this Act shall be performed either--

(1) as a member of an active or reserve component of the uniformed services; or

(2) in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security.

(c) INDUCTION REQUIREMENTS- The President shall provide for the induction of persons covered by subsection (a) to perform national service under this Act.

(d) SELECTION FOR MILITARY SERVICE- Based upon the needs of the uniformed services, the President shall--

(1) determine the number of persons covered by subsection (a) whose service is to be performed as a member of an active or reserve component of the uniformed services; and

(2) select the individuals among those persons who are to be inducted for military service under this Act.

(e) CIVILIAN SERVICE- Persons covered by subsection (a) who are not selected for military service under subsection (d) shall perform their national service obligation under this Act in a civilian capacity pursuant to subsection (b)(2).

SEC. 3. TWO-YEAR PERIOD OF NATIONAL SERVICE.

(a) GENERAL RULE- Except as otherwise provided in this section, the period of national service performed by a person under this Act shall be two years.

(b) GROUNDS FOR EXTENSION- At the discretion of the President, the period of military service for a member of the uniformed services under this Act may be extended--

(1) with the consent of the member, for the purpose of furnishing hospitalization, medical, or surgical care for injury or illness incurred in line of duty; or

(2) for the purpose of requiring the member to compensate for any time lost to training for any cause.

(c) EARLY TERMINATION- The period of national service for a person under this Act shall be terminated before the end of such period under the following circumstances:

(1) The voluntary enlistment and active service of the person in an active or reserve component of the uniformed services for a period of at least two years, in which case the period of basic military training and education actually served by the person shall be counted toward the term of enlistment.

(2) The admission and service of the person as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, or the United States Merchant Marine Academy.

(3) The enrollment and service of the person in an officer candidate program, if the person has signed an agreement to accept a Reserve commission in the appropriate service with an obligation to serve on active duty if such a commission is offered upon completion of the program.

(4) Such other grounds as the President may establish.

SEC. 4. IMPLEMENTATION BY THE PRESIDENT.

(a) IN GENERAL- The President shall prescribe such regulations as are necessary to carry out this Act.

(b) MATTER TO BE COVERED BY REGULATIONS- Such regulations shall include specification of the following:

(1) The types of civilian service that may be performed for a person's national service obligation under this Act.

(2) Standards for satisfactory performance of civilian service and of penalties for failure to perform civilian service satisfactorily.

(3) The manner in which persons shall be selected for induction under this Act, including the manner in which those selected will be notified of such selection.

(4) All other administrative matters in connection with the induction of persons under this Act and the registration, examination, and classification of such persons.

(5) A means to determine questions or claims with respect to inclusion for, or exemption or deferment from induction under this Act, including questions of conscientious objection.

(6) Standards for compensation and benefits for persons performing their national service obligation under this Act through civilian service.

(7) Such other matters as the President determines necessary to carry out this Act.

(c) USE OF PRIOR ACT- To the extent determined appropriate by the President, the President may use for purposes of this Act the procedures provided in the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 451 et seq.), including procedures for registration, selection, and induction.

SEC. 5. INDUCTION.

(a) IN GENERAL- Every person subject to induction for national service under this Act, except those whose training is deferred or postponed in accordance with this Act, shall be called and inducted by the President for such service at the time and place specified by the President.

(b) AGE LIMITS- A person may be inducted under this Act only if the person has attained the age of 18 and has not attained the age of 26.

(c) VOLUNTARY INDUCTION- A person subject to induction under this Act may volunteer for induction at a time other than the time at which the person is otherwise called for induction.

(d) EXAMINATION; CLASSIFICATION- Every person subject to induction under this Act shall, before induction, be physically and mentally examined and shall be classified as to fitness to perform national service. The President may apply different classification standards for fitness for military service and fitness for civilian service.

SEC. 6. DEFERMENTS AND POSTPONEMENTS.

(a) HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS- A person who is pursuing a standard course of study, on a full-time basis, in a secondary school or similar institution of learning shall be entitled to have induction under this Act postponed until the person--

(1) obtains a high school diploma;

(2) ceases to pursue satisfactorily such course of study; or

(3) attains the age of 20.

(b) HARDSHIP AND DISABILITY- Deferments from national service under this Act may be made for--

(1) extreme hardship; or

(2) physical or mental disability.

(c) TRAINING CAPACITY- The President may postpone or suspend the induction of persons for military service under this Act as necessary to limit the number of persons receiving basic military training and education to the maximum number that can be adequately trained.

(d) TERMINATION- No deferment or postponement of induction under this Act shall continue after the cause of such deferment or postponement ceases.

SEC. 7. INDUCTION EXEMPTIONS.

(a) QUALIFICATIONS- No person may be inducted for military service under this Act unless the person is acceptable to the Secretary concerned for training and meets the same health and physical qualifications applicable under section 505 of title 10, United States Code, to persons seeking original enlistment in a regular component of the Armed Forces.

(b) OTHER MILITARY SERVICE- No person shall be liable for induction under this Act who--

(1) is serving, or has served honorably for at least six months, in any component of the uniformed services on active duty; or

(2) is or becomes a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, the United States
Merchant Marine Academy, a midshipman of a Navy accredited State maritime academy, a member of the Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps, or the naval aviation college program, so long as that person satisfactorily continues in and completes two years training therein.


SEC. 8. CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION.

(a) CLAIMS AS CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR- Any person selected under this Act for induction into the uniformed services who claims, because of religious training and belief (as defined in section 6(j) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. 456(j))), exemption from combatant training included as part of that military service and whose claim is sustained under such procedures as the President may prescribe, shall, when inducted, participate in military service that does not include any combatant training component.

(b) TRANSFER TO CIVILIAN SERVICE- Any such person whose claim is sustained may, at the discretion of the President, be transferred to a national service program for performance of such person's national service obligation under this Act.

SEC. 9. DISCHARGE FOLLOWING NATIONAL SERVICE.

(a) DISCHARGE- Upon completion or termination of the obligation to perform national service under this Act, a person shall be discharged from the uniformed services or from civilian service, as the case may be, and shall not be subject to any further service under this Act.

(b) COORDINATION WITH OTHER AUTHORITIES- Nothing in this section shall limit or prohibit the call to active service in the uniformed services of any person who is a member of a regular or reserve component of the uniformed services.

SEC. 10. REGISTRATION OF FEMALES UNDER THE MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT.

(a) REGISTRATION REQUIRED- Section 3(a) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. 453(a)) is amended--

(1) by striking `male' both places it appears;

(2) by inserting `or herself' after `himself'; and

(3) by striking `he' and inserting `the person'.

(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 16(a) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 466(a)) is amended by striking `men' and inserting `persons'.

SEC. 11. RELATION OF ACT TO REGISTRATION AND INDUCTION AUTHORITY OF MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT.

(a) REGISTRATION- Section 4 of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 454) is amended by inserting after subsection (g) the following new subsection:

`(h) This section does not apply with respect to the induction of persons into the Armed Forces pursuant to the Universal National Service Act of 2003.'.

(b) INDUCTION- Section 17(c) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 467(c)) is amended by striking `now or hereafter' and all that follows through the period at the end and inserting `inducted pursuant to the Universal National Service Act of 2003.'.

SEC. 12. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `military service' means service performed as a member of an active or reserve component of the uniformed services.

(2) The term `Secretary concerned' means the Secretary of Defense with respect to the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps, the Secretary of Homeland Security with respect to the Coast Guard, the Secretary of Commerce, with respect to matters concerning the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the Secretary of Health and Human Services, with respect to matters concerning the Public Health Service.

(3) The term `United States', when used in a geographical sense, means the several States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam.

(4) The term `uniformed services' means the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and commissioned corps of the Public Health Service.

***

This measure doesn't put the draft into effect, it just gives the President the power to put it into effect. There are a few changes. Women would have to sign up under this measure and I'd still be eligible to be drafted for 1 more year (doh).

I don't think I'd get overly worried about this passing though. It'd be political suicide for most of the supporters.