U of T has a co-ed professional local?

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Oh I know. It's a load os BS, but that's the excuse they have given us. I have no idea what the real motives behind it is.

Well that's the offical reason from U of T...... it all stems from a "incident" back in 59' or 60'. Back then a black student pledged a sorority (I won't mention which one), but when it came time for her initation the sorority's HQ refused to grant permission and threaten to pull their charter if they went through with it. So the sorority "de-pledged" the girl....... but this particular girl happened to be in SAC (the student council) as an executive. SAC and the Law Society filled a grievance based on this case of discrimination. The resulting investigation opened a whole can of worms over the next couple of years.... with allegations of racial, religious, or class dicrimination being common. As a result of this and the understandable backlash from the student body the Governing Council of U of T (including many greek alumni) took the stance that they would not support any group that would discriminate based on sex, race, ethnicity, or religion (also they wanted the land to build Robart's Library).

So in theory all of the currently recognized groups cannot discriminate based on sex, sexual orientation, religion, class, ethnicity, or age. For example:

"Sororities at U of T" promotes the existence of Women's Fraternities in the University of Toronto area. Our aim is to encourage an interest in Women's Fraternities and to show all that they can offer.

I can join "Sororities at U of T" even though I am male. That was one of the conditions when Jen filed for recognition a couple of years ago.

Here are some "official" statements from UofT:

"Fraternities and Sororities
Although a number of students become involved in the fraternities and sororities located in the vicinity of the campus, you should note that these organizations are not, in any way, associated with U of T and are not recognized by the University. You should also be aware that problems and difficulties arising out of fraternity and sorority activities can not be resolved through University services and resources."

-and-

"Discrimination
There are several policy documents that confirm the University’s commitment to acting against discrimination. The Statement on Human Rights clearly states that the University “acts within its purview to prevent or remedy discrimination or harassment on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, marital status, family status, receipt of public assistance or record of offence.”

Though you are, for the most part, free to express your opinions, no matter how controversial, there is a point at which the right to free speech is limited. You are not entitled to target individuals with vexatious comments based on human rights grounds. To do so, when your conduct is known to be unwelcome, is defined as “discriminatory harassment” and is an offence under the University’s Code of Student Conduct."

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper


I can join "Sororities at U of T" even though I am male. That was one of the conditions when Jen filed for recognition a couple of years ago.

You can't be an actual member of a sorority, but you can be a member of "Sororities at U of T". If that's the case, then why don't the guys band together and form "Frats at U of T" or perhaps merge with the girls? Is it because of the frats' reputation?

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Taualumna
You can't be an actual member of a sorority, but you can be a member of "Sororities at U of T". If that's the case, then why don't the guys band together and form "Frats at U of T" or perhaps merge with the girls? Is it because of the frats' reputation?

Actually it's the fact that all of the guy's houses can't agree on any governing body.... which is why the IFC was disolved by the withdrawal of some houses.

Okay yes and the rep problems.... you've seen some of the articles in the campus newspapers I assume.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper
Actually it's the fact that all of the guy's houses can't agree on any governing body.... which is why the IFC was disolved by the withdrawal of some houses.

Okay yes and the rep problems.... you've seen some of the articles in the campus newspapers I assume.

I guess that's too bad. Maybe you guys can TRY to get along?

[AGDee]

Thank you for the historical perspective, Rob. I work with our chapter at U of T and have always wondered what led to this.

Dee

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Taualumna
I guess that's too bad. Maybe you guys can TRY to get along?

Oh.... most of the houses get along fine, as long as it doesn't involve politics or as one guy said "messing with internal fraternity stuff". So basically all of the guys houses get along socially, with a few exceptions of course, but I can't see the houses agreeing politically on anything right now...... It's a slow, painful process to introduce change even if it is for the good of all.... a good example is Greek Week and pub night - the old IFC tried to do away with pub night, and houses walked away from the IFC over the issue.... now panhel is trying to use it's influence to reduce the risk management nightmare that is pub night. It's starting to have an effect, but it'll take a couple more years.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper
Oh.... most of the houses get along fine, as long as it doesn't involve politics or as one guy said "messing with internal fraternity stuff". So basically all of the guys houses get along socially, with a few exceptions of course, but I can't see the houses agreeing politically on anything right now...... It's a slow, painful process to introduce change even if it is for the good of all.... a good example is Greek Week and pub night - the old IFC tried to do away with pub night, and houses walked away from the IFC over the issue.... now panhel is trying to use it's influence to reduce the risk management nightmare that is pub night. It's starting to have an effect, but it'll take a couple more years.

Hey, at least you're doing something!! Best of luck!

[RACooper]

Originally posted by AGDee
Thank you for the historical perspective, Rob. I work with our chapter at U of T and have always wondered what led to this.

Dee

Believe me that was the very abridged version.... being a history major I believe that it's important to know why things are done they way they are or why they are done at all..... knowing the history behind it can give you perspective on current issues.

[Lady Pi Phi]

No, Guelph doesn't have LINK.

I was talking to a few of my sisters and I asked why we didn't propose something like they have at Laurier, their Greek Life club, and apparently that was proposed and the idea was shot down.

So having all orgs fly under one banner could work, as long as the university approves of the idea.

[Tom Earp]

Maybe it is because Some Colleges do not overtly recognize Greek Social Organizations but live with them for Insurance purposes?

Most Greek Organizations will not go to a Campus unless there is a taciturn agreement to the fact!

There is also the fact that none of the Honorary or Professional Organizations have Houses.

There have Been Some Colleges such as Alfred in NY who have de-recognized All Greek Organizations for what a Local did.

There are many who do not recognize Greek Social Organizations but Tolerat them because of the Alum Base that have been Built over The Years and who contribuate to the College Endowment Fund! i think this is true in the Ivy Leauge Schools.

I do not understand, why there is a comparison of Social, Proffesional, and Honoray Greeks about this!

Apples and Oranges! Period! Da!

[cherub]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
No, Guelph doesn't have LINK.

I was talking to a few of my sisters and I asked why we didn't propose something like they have at Laurier, their Greek Life club, and apparently that was proposed and the idea was shot down.

So having all orgs fly under one banner could work, as long as the university approves of the idea.

Yes, there was an attempt made in December for a GLO promotion club, designed for anyone who wanted to join (male, female, staff, student, alum whatever). The CSA Board of Directors refused the application on it's first attempt, but there will be future attempts with comments/suggestions from the board addressed. Hopefully that will do the trick

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Maybe it is because Some Colleges do not overtly recognize Greek Social Organizations but live with them for Insurance purposes?

Most Greek Organizations will not go to a Campus unless there is a taciturn agreement to the fact!

There is also the fact that none of the Honorary or Professional Organizations have Houses.

There have Been Some Colleges such as Alfred in NY who have de-recognized All Greek Organizations for what a Local did.

There are many who do not recognize Greek Social Organizations but Tolerat them because of the Alum Base that have been Built over The Years and who contribuate to the College Endowment Fund! i think this is true in the Ivy Leauge Schools.

I do not understand, why there is a comparison of Social, Proffesional, and Honoray Greeks about this!

Apples and Oranges! Period! Da!

Actually Tom I guess UofT is a little different then....

Historically at least 2/3 of the pro. fac. GLO had houses (my old doctor lived in one even). At one point the University of Toronto was 1/3 greek, and membership in a GLO was a matter of pride. The competition was enough to support 3 medical frats, 2 nursing sororities, 3 law frats, 3 dentistry frats, 2 dentistry sororities, and 2 pharmacology frats on top of the many social GLOs. Everyone owned property (LCA was at this point the furtherest from campus). When UofT severed it's ties to GLOs it went on a buying/appropriation spree.... as it expanded or created new colleges, libraries or classrooms the GLOs were bought-out or their property appropriated. Some benifited from the sales (Zeta Psi comes to mind.... they upgraded very nicely), but most did not survive this period (1965-1975).

For example one pro. fac. did survive from this time: Xi Psi Chi(?) which is a dentistry GLO. They formed from the merger of a dental fraternity and a dental sorority that were neighboors before UofT severed it's ties..... and they still own a house (2 doors down from DKE on Lowther), and they do have the occasional invite only events.

Now Xi Psi Chi isn't recognized, but this new co-ed pro. fac. is? They have existed for decades at UofT, the own property, they have a strong alumni base, and they have alumni as members of the faculty..... the question still remains over why they don't have recognition but this new group does.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper
Actually Tom I guess UofT is a little different then....

Historically at least 2/3 of the pro. fac. GLO had houses (my old doctor lived in one even). At one point the University of Toronto was 1/3 greek, and membership in a GLO was a matter of pride. The competition was enough to support 3 medical frats, 2 nursing sororities, 3 law frats, 3 dentistry frats, 2 dentistry sororities, and 2 pharmacology frats on top of the many social GLOs. Everyone owned property (LCA was at this point the furtherest from campus). When UofT severed it's ties to GLOs it went on a buying/appropriation spree.... as it expanded or created new colleges, libraries or classrooms the GLOs were bought-out or their property appropriated. Some benifited from the sales (Zeta Psi comes to mind.... they upgraded very nicely), but most did not survive this period (1965-1975).

For example one pro. fac. did survive from this time: Xi Psi Chi(?) which is a dentistry GLO. They formed from the merger of a dental fraternity and a dental sorority that were neighboors before UofT severed it's ties..... and they still own a house (2 doors down from DKE on Lowther), and they do have the occasional invite only events.

Now Xi Psi Chi isn't recognized, but this new co-ed pro. fac. is? They have existed for decades at UofT, the own property, they have a strong alumni base, and they have alumni as members of the faculty..... the question still remains over why they don't have recognition but this new group does.

As much as I hate to say it, it might be because Alpha Lambda Theta (Alternative) is recognized because it states in their description that it is multi cultural, while Xi Psi Chi (why so many "i" sounding letters?????) is a "traditional" professional frat? Perhaps Xi Psi Chi had, at one point the issue of the NPC that turned down the black girl? I dunno....Maybe the professional organizations should throw together something like "Sororities at U of T" or something. Ah well, I'm not really all that connected with my school!!!

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Taualumna
As much as I hate to say it, it might be because Alpha Lambda Theta (Alternative) is recognized because it states in their description that it is multi cultural, while Xi Psi Chi (why so many "i" sounding letters?????) is a "traditional" professional frat? Perhaps Xi Psi Chi had, at one point the issue of the NPC that turned down the black girl? I dunno....Maybe the professional organizations should throw together something like "Sororities at U of T" or something. Ah well, I'm not really all that connected with my school!!!

Actually the sorority that denied initiation to the black girl is still active at UofT..... Xi Psi Chi had nothing to do with it..... in fact their founding two org. (both local) had been initiating black and jewish members since the 20s (at least I get that impression by looking at the old UofT year books).

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by cherub
Yes, there was an attempt made in December for a GLO promotion club, designed for anyone who wanted to join (male, female, staff, student, alum whatever). The CSA Board of Directors refused the application on it's first attempt, but there will be future attempts with comments/suggestions from the board addressed. Hopefully that will do the trick

Lol, well I'm not a huge fan of the CSA mysef, but you never know. Maybe if we bug them enough they'll cave in.